Scanners, Radio and other such tech inquiries

[zephyr17]

Google maps uses the GPS for location, but needs the WIFi data for displaying the maps.

As I pointed in a previous post, Google Maps does indeed seem to have a nervous breakdown when it cannot get an internet connection, either cellular data or wifi, even if one has downloaded maps.

The solution, if one does not want to purchase or carry around a standalone GPS, is to get another mapping app that exclusively uses maps downloaded to the phone. I use maps.me, which is free.

 

[west point]

About antennas. Does anyone sell a high-performance rubber ducky antenna that is a fractal antenna? Fractal antennas are what are in today's cell phones.

 

[zephyr17]

The BC125AT, which is being discussed here, will recharge batteries in the scanner (via USB); my BCD325P2 does as well. My older BCD396XT does as well but NOT via USB. You have to use the supplied AC transformer. Not sure about the 125 but, my 325 only charges when the scanner is off. If the scanner is on, scanner power is supplied by USB and the batteries are not receiving a charge current.
While a general consensus is to not recharge in the scanner, I have no qualms doing so as a matter of convience from time-to-time. Most of the time, I do use a "smart charger" which charges cells individually which is the preferred method. I use Panasonic's BQ-CC55 for this.

I don't think using USB in a scanner had even been thought of when I got that Radio Shack one. I actually had to buy the AC transformer for it separately.

I don't worry about using it to keep my rechargeables for it charged. It works, doesn't seem to adversely affect the rechargeables to the point it's a nuisance, and I have one less piece of gear to drag around.

That scanner has been solidly reliable and I am not looking forward to having to replace it if it dies. Given the discussion here, I'll almost certainly just go to carrying around more spare AAs for a new model. If it doesn't have built-in recharging, I am not going to bother with rechargeables for it.

 

[Alice]

Tons of good info above.

I have the BC125, purchased eons ago at scannermaster.com. Even if you do not buy from them, it is worth a look around their site for general info.

In my opinion, ANY scanner makes for a more interesting trip than no scanner. I sometimes program route frequencies but more often use the preprogrammed rail band. Also, when we do something unusual, I find the police or fire band sometimes has the answer. The other bands can also be entertaining and are worth getting to know.

 

[Eric in East County]

About antennas. Does anyone sell a high-performance rubber ducky antenna that is a fractal antenna? Fractal antennas are what are in today's cell phones.

Based on what I’ve read, the preferred antenna for monitoring railroad radio communications appears to be an adjustable whip that can be “tuned” to a specific frequency by altering its length according to the following formula:

Correct length (in inches) = 2,800 divided by the frequencies in MHz

Using this formula, optimum reception of 160.800 MHz (which is at about the middle of the railroad band) is attained by using an antenna 17.5 inches in length. Since re-tuning the antenna for each new frequency is impractical for my purposes, I compromise by using a 12-inch all-band antenna.

 

[TinCan782]

I too use a telescoping whip antenna on the train...adjusted as Eric mentioned above. I have an old Radio Shack suction-cup antenna mount and mount the whole thing to the window glass.
I also use a Smiley Antenna 5/8 Slim Duck (160 MHz) when walking around with my scanner and it provides an improvement over the stock "duck" antenna that came with the scanner.
https://www.smileyantenna.com/product-p/16020.htm

Scanner and GPS setup...


Suction-cup antenna mount...



Scanner antenna and GPS antenna in window.


Don't be afraid of experimenting!

 

[Eric in East County]

I also use a Smiley Antenna 5/8 Slim Duck (160 MHz) when walking around with my scanner and it provides an improvement over the stock "duck" antenna that came with the scanner.
https://www.smileyantenna.com/product-p/16020.htm

I did some on-line research and many rail fans consider this to be the best general purpose antenna for monitoring railroad radio traffic. I just ordered one and am looking forward to using it on our next trip.

 

[PaTrainFan]

Total Luddite here when it comes to scanners. Would really like to jump into the game and appreciate the info provided in the forum. So, here comes the uneducated query: I live about 6 miles as the crow flies from the Pittsburgh Amtrak station. I take it a basic Uniden handheld with a provided antenna would not have the range to pick up communications on the mainline from my home. Is there a way to upgrade to that point or do I just keep it basic and use it for travel. I don't hold much value in monitoring police/fire/first responder communications (unless, of course, there happens to be a major event). Thank you.

 

[zephyr17]

Total Luddite here when it comes to scanners. Would really like to jump into the game and appreciate the info provided in the forum. So, here comes the uneducated query: I live about 6 miles as the crow flies from the Pittsburgh Amtrak station. I take it a basic Uniden handheld with a provided antenna would not have the range to pick up communications on the mainline from my home. Is there a way to upgrade to that point or do I just keep it basic and use it for travel. I don't hold much value in monitoring police/fire/first responder communications (unless, of course, there happens to be a major event). Thank you.

The antenna is the biggest single factor in increasing range/sensitivity. So just get a larger, tuned antenna for your home. Plug it in at home and use the rubber ducky for onboard use.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Total Luddite here when it comes to scanners. Would really like to jump into the game and appreciate the info provided in the forum. So, here comes the uneducated query: I live about 6 miles as the crow flies from the Pittsburgh Amtrak station. I take it a basic Uniden handheld with a provided antenna would not have the range to pick up communications on the mainline from my home. Is there a way to upgrade to that point or do I just keep it basic and use it for travel. I don't hold much value in monitoring police/fire/first responder communications (unless, of course, there happens to be a major event). Thank you.

Per your mention of monitoring the First Responders on Scanners, the First Responder Agencies in Austin ( Police,Fire,EMS) have encoded their Communications so Citizens can't Monitor their traffic!

 

[PaTrainFan]

Seeking additional insight. The BC125AT appears to make the most sense for a beginner like me. Reasonable cost and semi-easy programming (though clunky for a neophyte, in my opinion). Yet when I hear that railroads may move to digital, even if timing is unknown, wonder if it makes sense to invest a bit more in a digital scanner (BCD160DN, for example). It seems like a waste to buy a basic analog scanner which is obsolete in two years or so if digital becomes standard. Realistically, I will probably only use it on rail trips to eavesdrop on crew communications to keep informed of delays.

 

[zephyr17]

Railroads have generally backed away from investing in digital conversion at this time. I don't think you need to worry too much about it.

 

[TinCan782]

Seeking additional insight. The BC125AT appears to make the most sense for a beginner like me. Reasonable cost and semi-easy programming (though clunky for a neophyte, in my opinion). Yet when I hear that railroads may move to digital, even if timing is unknown, wonder if it makes sense to invest a bit more in a digital scanner (BCD160DN, for example). It seems like a waste to buy a basic analog scanner which is obsolete in two years or so if digital becomes standard. Realistically, I will probably only use it on rail trips to eavesdrop on crew communications to keep informed of delays.

The change to digital by railroads has been discussed for some time now. Yes, "eventually" NXDN will become more widespread.

Here in the Los Angeles area the only NXDN I monitor is LA County Metro light rail and subways. There is no BNSF/UP NXDN here in my area. Even outside my area, there are just a few NXDN channels (only BNSF) and none are "road" channels. Looking at listings at Radioreference dot com there are three NXDN channels in Barstow Yard, two channels in Hobart Yard (Los Angeles). In Northern California, Sonoma Marin Area Rail Transit (SMART) in Northern California has 22 NXDN channels. Not much NXDN at the moment.

While the 160/260DN is not a bad choice, I think you will do just fine with the BC125AT. Analog will still be around a while.

BTW, I use a BCD325P2 (when out and about) and a BCD996P2 (home), both of which have NXDN and DMR enabled. That radio will also receive P25 digital which enables me to also listen to LAPD, LAUSD Police, Cal State Northridge Police, and the nearby Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area and Angeles National Forest. Those are non-trunking frequencies.

Whatever you use, enjoy the listening!
John

 

[TinCan782]

Per your mention of monitoring the First Responders on Scanners, the First Responder Agencies in Austin ( Police,Fire,EMS) have encoded their Communications so Citizens can't Monitor their traffic!

Unfortunately (for us scanner people) encryption, especially law enforcement, is becoming more and more widespread. LA County Sheriff just recently moved to a new trunking system with most channels encrypted. LA City Police is still "in the clear" with their P25 digital system (not trunked). Their new system is still a few years away. Fortunately, LA City and County fire is still non-encrypted.

 

[TinCan782]

Total Luddite here when it comes to scanners. Would really like to jump into the game and appreciate the info provided in the forum. So, here comes the uneducated query: I live about 6 miles as the crow flies from the Pittsburgh Amtrak station. I take it a basic Uniden handheld with a provided antenna would not have the range to pick up communications on the mainline from my home. Is there a way to upgrade to that point or do I just keep it basic and use it for travel. I don't hold much value in monitoring police/fire/first responder communications (unless, of course, there happens to be a major event). Thank you.

An outside antenna as high up as you can will make a difference. With the stock "rubber duck" will only be sufficient when you are relatively close to the train.
For a handheld scanner, I would recommend the Smiley Antenna 5/8 SLIM DUCK 160 MHZ
https://www.smileyantenna.com/product-p/16020.htm

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It seems like a waste to buy a basic analog scanner which is obsolete in two years or so if digital becomes standard. Realistically, I will probably only use it on rail trips to eavesdrop on crew communications to keep informed of delays.

I had a similar concern at purchase but it has been over a decade since and most US RR still have no clear timeline for digital. The biggest change was a switch to narrow band channels but other than a decrease in fidelity even older analog units can still receive them. If and when digital trunking becomes common there is a reasonable chance it will be encrypted with no consumer listening possible.

 

[TinCan782]

I had a similar concern at purchase but it has been over a decade since and most US RR still have no clear timeline for digital. The biggest change was a switch to narrow band channels but other than a decrease in fidelity even older analog units can still receive them. If and when digital trunking becomes common there is a reasonable chance it will be encrypted with no consumer listening possible.

The bigest hurdle with digital (and possibly encrypted) is interchangeability between roads. Right now with analog, CTCSS/DPL is not (or very rarely) used on road frequencies. It is used in yards somemtimes, Amtrak PD uses it, etc. With NXDN you have "RAN"s to program along with frequencies (channels).
Any train using your road, would have to have radios programmed with channels AND RANs (NXDN or CTCSS/PL tones) for EVERY segment of their route. With encryption in place, the train's radio would also have to have the proper encryption keys also programmed.

Just take Amtrak for example. It relys heavily on host railroads and many divisions within those railroads. Just think a minute for what would be involved long distance - LA to Chicago, etc.

With analog, trains now just switch channels (frequencies) to communicate with the dispatcher. No need to be concerned with access tones, or encryption keys, etc. Simple! I think that alone will keep road frequencies the way they are now. Yard frequencies, special units (PD), that is a different situation.

 

[drdumont]

Seeking additional insight. The BC125AT appears to make the most sense for a beginner like me. Reasonable cost and semi-easy programming (though clunky for a neophyte, in my opinion). Yet when I hear that railroads may move to digital, even if timing is unknown, wonder if it makes sense to invest a bit more in a digital scanner (BCD160DN, for example). It seems like a waste to buy a basic analog scanner which is obsolete in two years or so if digital becomes standard. Realistically, I will probably only use it on rail trips to eavesdrop on crew communications to keep informed of delays.

Do yourself a favor. Spend < $50 on one of the Chinesium WHF/UHF H/Ts on Amazon. Wouxon Radiodity and more . They work quite well as scanners, you can program them from the keyboard or with free software and a cheap adapter. Then if you re interested, go for more $$. These disposable radios have incredible performance, can use external antennas and more.
Then do yourself a favor. Get an Amateur license. No Morse code is needed althought it is suggested. You can go as far as you like, you can learn something, and converse all over your travels with other Hams on 2meter/6cm repeaters.

 

[drdumont]

The bigest hurdle with digital (and possibly encrypted) is interchangeability between roads. Right now with analog, CTCSS/DPL is not (or very rarely) used on road frequencies. It is used in yards somemtimes, Amtrak PD uses it, etc. With NXDN you have "RAN"s to program along with frequencies (channels).
Any train using your road, would have to have radios programmed with channels AND RANs (NXDN or CTCSS/PL tones) for EVERY segment of their route. With encryption in place, the train's radio would also have to have the proper encryption keys also programmed.

Just take Amtrak for example. It relys heavily on host railroads and many divisions within those railroads. Just think a minute for what would be involved long distance - LA to Chicago, etc.

With analog, trains now just switch channels (frequencies) to communicate with the dispatcher. No need to be concerned with access tones, or encryption keys, etc. Simple! I think that alone will keep road frequencies the way they are now. Yard frequencies, special units (PD), that is a different situation.

The conversion to digital would indeed be expensive and really unnecessary. If crews need "privacy", they use their cell phones. Simpler is better.

 

[PaTrainFan]

Do yourself a favor. Spend < $50 on one of the Chinesium WHF/UHF H/Ts on Amazon. Wouxon Radiodity and more . They work quite well as scanners, you can program them from the keyboard or with free software and a cheap adapter. Then if you re interested, go for more $$. These disposable radios have incredible performance, can use external antennas and more.
Then do yourself a favor. Get an Amateur license. No Morse code is needed althought it is suggested. You can go as far as you like, you can learn something, and converse all over your travels with other Hams on 2meter/6cm repeaters.

I haven't a clue what you mean here. I don't know all the jargon. But thank you.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The bigest hurdle with digital (and possibly encrypted) is interchangeability between roads.

I would guess the biggest hurtle is a steep capital cost leading to modest operational return.

Just take Amtrak for example. It relys heavily on host railroads and many divisions within those railroads. Just think a minute for what would be involved long distance - LA to Chicago, etc.

Interchange and run-through issues would likely dissuade keyed encryption but could still work with digital trunking and compression. To my understanding listening to encoded channels is legal (unlike encrypted channels) but impractical with most consumer hardware.

With analog, trains now just switch channels (frequencies) to communicate with the dispatcher. No need to be concerned with access tones, or encryption keys, etc. Simple! I think that alone will keep road frequencies the way they are now.

The only state that is higher than perfection is standardization. Same with using VHF between airports and aircraft. But eventually the allotted spectrum will be reapportioned. I just think that change will come long after most of us are beyond our scanning days.

 

[drdumont]

I haven't a clue what you mean here. I don't know all the jargon. But thank you.

Chinesium - Cheap items made in China. Some work, some don't
H/T Handie Talkie or Walkie Talkie Hand held transmitting and receiving device. A portable two way radio. Railroad crews carry them and speak with one another.
Different stretches of railroad use different frequencies or channels depending on location. This information is available on a website -
http://on-track-on-line.com/amtrak-freqs.shtml
<50 - Less than Fifty Dollars US Currency
AMAZON - An online store from which you can buy almost anything and have it delivered to your door
Wouxon, Radiodity - Exemplars of Brand names on Chinesium H/Ts. Yaesu, Kenwood - also of Asian manufacture, but top quality and higher price
HAM - a sobriquet used to describe Licensed Amateur Radio Operators. HAMs find the hobby satisfying, educational, useful,enjoyable and a boon to society as they provide emergency communications during times of emergencies.
SWL _Short Wave Listeners - those who listen to radio communications on "short wave" radio frequencies. This includes the HAM frequencies, railroads, police, fire, dispatching and shorr wave worldwide communicaitons and broadcasts
Amateur License - A license American citizens can obtain from the Federal Communications Commission which allow you to transmit on certain frequency bands for noncommercial and educational purposes. Licensed operators are called "HAMs". There are several levels of licenses, each has additional bands or frequencies upon which you can transmit - voice, data, teletype, even television.
Morse Code is the system of communication devised my Samuel F B Morse. This is the system which uses short bursts of signal (Dit and dahs sometimes called dots and dashes when written) . One of the simplest and most reliable communication by wired or wireless devices.
Knowledge of and ability to use Morse Code was a prerequisite for obtaining an Amateur Radio License, now not required, alas
2 Meter and 6 Centimeters are bands of frequencies expressed in wavelength used for voice communication. Shot range, but there are many many devices called "repeaters" which pick up your signal and others, and rebroadcast them at higher power enabling longer range communication using voice - you can TALK directly to other people.

Duck Duck Go is a search engine which you can use for even more in depth explanation of this and other terminology you find. It is a replacement for Google, and does not track your inquiries for advertising or other purposes

I sincerely hope this helps to clear the fog out of your harbor.

 

[drdumont]

I would guess the biggest hurtle is a steep capital cost leading to modest operational return.


Interchange and run-through issues would likely dissuade keyed encryption but could still work with digital trunking and compression. To my understanding listening to encoded channels is legal (unlike encrypted channels) but impractical with most consumer hardware.


The only state that is higher than perfection is standardization. Same with using VHF between airports and aircraft. But eventually the allotted spectrum will be reapportioned. I just think that change will come long after most of us are beyond our scanning days.

Steep Capital cost to be sure. Expensive, overcomplicated and unnecessary to the task
Digital communications can be compromised easily through hardware or software errors, atmospherics and other difficulties
Trunking, encryption, compression and other communications systems have their use and applications. But simple analog methods remain desirable for instant (no delay) dependable and inexpensive universal communications. There is really no need for cloaking such comms as "Approach Medium" or "Highball" or copying Track Warrants, Slow Orders, "Three cars more", "That'll Do!" or "Looking good on that side, AMTRAK".
The VHF channels in use are excellent for the short ranges needed to communicate on stretches of line. This and the number of allotted channels helps to keep someone from talking in Elks Breath, Indiana from interfering with someone talking in Greater Pesthole, NY.
The "alloted Spectrum" is not going away. No one is waving fecesloads of money to take these more or less line of sight frequency bands away, in the manner that Amateur, UHF and microwave bands were stolen. We have seen in the grabs for TV and Cellular channels. And now this mythical ATSC 3 ("Next Gen TV") failure. Jeeze, we just got over converting to Digital and then HD, now we need to scrap everything again and, buy new gear so we can get more targeted advertising? My battery operted TV and Rabbit Ears work when the power has failed and the cable TV is out.
I mean really, folks, no one wanting to profit from targeted advertising and monetization is drooling over 108 - 455 MC. The historic migration of commercial communications from the low band <>20 Mc through 450 Mc is pretty much over. Public service radio has moved into 800MC and above using digital and trunking for dispatch and security reasons.
The use of AM VHF voice comms for air to air and air to ground communications is similar to the VHF FM comms for railroads. There are huge numbers of users, the system works, and changing from one standard to another would be expensive, time consuming, a massive pain to execute changeover, and to what end?

Author's Note:
Please don't give me that Hertz vs Cycles (per second) guff. I've heard it all before. I shall continue to use the descriptive and understandable technological nomenclature that I have for 70 + years. Cycles per Second means something. Hertz was a man's name. Honored, to be sure, but certainly not intuitive or descriptive.
Centigrade means a 100 unit measurement. Who or what was a Celsius? Nevermind, I care not.
Shall we change Lumens to Edisons? What happened to Footcandles?
FM to Armstrong Signal System? Uh nope, bad acronym
Foot Pounds to Ugga Duggas?
Miles per Hour to Furlongs per Fortnight?
Acre Feet to - oh Hades, you get the idea... This has gone far enough.

One More Thing - YOU KIDS GET OFFA MY LAWN!

 

[PaTrainFan]

Chinesium - Cheap items made in China. Some work, some don't
H/T Handie Talkie or Walkie Talkie Hand held transmitting and receiving device. A portable two way radio. Railroad crews carry them and speak with one another.
Different stretches of railroad use different frequencies or channels depending on location. This information is available on a website -
http://on-track-on-line.com/amtrak-freqs.shtml
<50 - Less than Fifty Dollars US Currency
AMAZON - An online store from which you can buy almost anything and have it delivered to your door
Wouxon, Radiodity - Exemplars of Brand names on Chinesium H/Ts. Yaesu, Kenwood - also of Asian manufacture, but top quality and higher price
HAM - a sobriquet used to describe Licensed Amateur Radio Operators. HAMs find the hobby satisfying, educational, useful,enjoyable and a boon to society as they provide emergency communications during times of emergencies.
SWL _Short Wave Listeners - those who listen to radio communications on "short wave" radio frequencies. This includes the HAM frequencies, railroads, police, fire, dispatching and shorr wave worldwide communicaitons and broadcasts
Amateur License - A license American citizens can obtain from the Federal Communications Commission which allow you to transmit on certain frequency bands for noncommercial and educational purposes. Licensed operators are called "HAMs". There are several levels of licenses, each has additional bands or frequencies upon which you can transmit - voice, data, teletype, even television.
Morse Code is the system of communication devised my Samuel F B Morse. This is the system which uses short bursts of signal (Dit and dahs sometimes called dots and dashes when written) . One of the simplest and most reliable communication by wired or wireless devices.
Knowledge of and ability to use Morse Code was a prerequisite for obtaining an Amateur Radio License, now not required, alas
2 Meter and 6 Centimeters are bands of frequencies expressed in wavelength used for voice communication. Shot range, but there are many many devices called "repeaters" which pick up your signal and others, and rebroadcast them at higher power enabling longer range communication using voice - you can TALK directly to other people.

Duck Duck Go is a search engine which you can use for even more in depth explanation of this and other terminology you find. It is a replacement for Google, and does not track your inquiries for advertising or other purposes

I sincerely hope this helps to clear the fog out of your harbor.

Yes, I am well familiar with Amazon, Ham, Morse Code and Duck Duck Go. LOL. I have never heard the derogatory term for items made in China and most of the shorthand abbreviations. Now I get it.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Concerning the "Chineseium" radios. I have a Baofeng that was my original 2m radio when I got my ham license but which I mostly use when I operate at Seashore Trolley Museum where we use RR frequencies for train to dispatcher comms. That radio has landed in the ballast quite a few times "takes a beating yet keeps on ticking" as the old Timex watch ads used to say. The drawback for using it as a scanner is that it scans very slowly compared to a Bearcat or other purpose designed scanner. Also it is a pain to program channels through the keyboard. I usually use a program called Chirp to do this.