My sister and brother in law live in Chandler which is on the right side of the area to make Maricopa useful, but I still like to go into Flagstaff, it is a beautiful area with things to do, and see even on the drive down (shuttle is available also) The Biosphere is out towards Tucson, that's pretty interesting, not sure if it is open.
Self-defense (on train)?
- Thread starter Hero's journey
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The Cascades buses do not require Amtrak travel, but the tickets are sold through Amtrak. California has always had some routes that did not require train travel.
Selling reservations has a considerable dampening effect on the problem bus riders. When we were young and married, my wife always preferred Continental Trailways Golden Eagle service and the slight extra fare and the reservations that made a huge difference.
Since you said you plan to fly during your trip, you will want to leave the weapons at home!( even the Pepper Spray).
TSA is pretty strict with people that take weapons thru Security, so take the Train, be sure and talk with your car attendants and Conductors as was said, and enjoy the journey.
You didn't say if you were riding in a Sleeper or Coach, but theres always people around.
When its night when you're in the Cities, use Taxis,Uber or Lyft. Public Transportstion is fine in the daytime in all Cities that have it!
TSA is pretty strict with people that take weapons thru Security, so take the Train, be sure and talk with your car attendants and Conductors as was said, and enjoy the journey.
You didn't say if you were riding in a Sleeper or Coach, but theres always people around.
When its night when you're in the Cities, use Taxis,Uber or Lyft. Public Transportstion is fine in the daytime in all Cities that have it!
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What do y'all think about doing NYC-WY in coach? It's 48 hours. With "social distancing", trains are running half-empty. I figured, given my small size, I can lay across the two seats or use a good neck support device and sleep ok since it won't be crowded?
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- Aug 26, 2020
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I would throw everything out before going to the airport. Which kind of defeats the purpose since I would probably need that stuff more on the second part of the trip in Phoenix... Thank you for your tips!
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That SCA's biggest problem is being stepped on! At 5 inches in height, she might even have problems reaching the bottom bunk, too.
Does she practice toe punches?
Some of us, me included, have done things like that. Some other people cringe when they think about it. A lot depends on how easily you fall asleep. Luckily I had valuable U.S. Army training at falling asleep!
jloewen
Service Attendant
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- Mar 10, 2009
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Buy bear spray in WY. Works on people too. Check a bag on the flight and pu the bear spray therein.
Forget the pepper spray - if you don't know how to use it effectively - AND - worse yet if used against you.
That panic alarm (SOUNDS) great should get the attention of one of the train crew !
Situation awareness - get to know the layout on the train - a path to escape - express your fears to your Service Attendant -
Have the SA check in on you from time time perhaps you are in a Roomette or Sleeper shut and close the door !
Don't have a lot of cumbersome baggage luggage to tote hindering your movement.
Really don't read or hear much of trouble on the rails - mostly unruly airplane passengers these days.
Oh and have a grand ole trip - be prepared for things to be LATE - allow connection time between trains.
Read and participate more this Amtrak forum.
That panic alarm (SOUNDS) great should get the attention of one of the train crew !
Situation awareness - get to know the layout on the train - a path to escape - express your fears to your Service Attendant -
Have the SA check in on you from time time perhaps you are in a Roomette or Sleeper shut and close the door !
Don't have a lot of cumbersome baggage luggage to tote hindering your movement.
Really don't read or hear much of trouble on the rails - mostly unruly airplane passengers these days.
Oh and have a grand ole trip - be prepared for things to be LATE - allow connection time between trains.
Read and participate more this Amtrak forum.
caravanman
Engineer
It is nice to hear that you want to break out and see your country, but so sad to read about your fears, and the need for self defence.
While anyone can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and travel is much more problematic for a lone female, I hope you can avoid trouble without the need for violence.
If you can tailor your journey to avoid being alone on the streets in a strange city in the middle of the night, that seems like good advice for anyone, not just a female.
Travel in hope, not in fear, just be sensible with your risks!
I regularly slept across the two seats of an Amtrak train a few years ago, for two night trips, and I am an old man of 6'2", so I would imagine that you could be comfortable enough.
The trains, main stations, and even the main Greyhound bus stations that I have used on my visits to America have been fine, from the safety aspect, and all part of the exciting adventure that travel should be.
PS This you tube video gives some idea about (pre-covid) solo female travel in coach, across America:
Click for solo female's youtube video San Francisco to New York in coach
Good Luck!
While anyone can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and travel is much more problematic for a lone female, I hope you can avoid trouble without the need for violence.
If you can tailor your journey to avoid being alone on the streets in a strange city in the middle of the night, that seems like good advice for anyone, not just a female.
Travel in hope, not in fear, just be sensible with your risks!
I regularly slept across the two seats of an Amtrak train a few years ago, for two night trips, and I am an old man of 6'2", so I would imagine that you could be comfortable enough.
The trains, main stations, and even the main Greyhound bus stations that I have used on my visits to America have been fine, from the safety aspect, and all part of the exciting adventure that travel should be.
PS This you tube video gives some idea about (pre-covid) solo female travel in coach, across America:
Click for solo female's youtube video San Francisco to New York in coach
Good Luck!
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Ryan
Court Jester
"I know knifes aren't allowed but what are the chances of anyone finding one on me?"
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- Messages
- 845
I carried a small cannister of bear spray, in a holster, on #8 once, because I was detraining to go hike in Glacier NP as the spray and holster are required there. I kept it stored in a locked bearproof food cannister (recommended while camping in non-designated places in GNP) while on board. I was mildly concerned about it accidentally discharging and bringing everyone in my sleeper car to tears. No problem. I suspect it would have been of little use as a self defense strategy on the train.
I agree with this, and this had been my experience, too. And I live in Baltimore, the alleged "murder capital of the universe," or something.
If I actually had to go to a place where weapons were needed, I would make it my business to get formal training in self-defense from somebody who knew what they were talking about.
But weapons aren't needed on Amtrak or in its stations.
They're, of course, the safest people to ride with. After all, they certainly don't want to do anything that will send them back in!
I’ve been visiting your fair city a lot these last 3 years, and will continue to do so. I’ve never felt threatened when there. I do stay away from the rough neighborhoods including the one I could walk through to my destination.I agree with this, and this had been my experience, too. And I live in Baltimore, the alleged "murder capital of the universe," or something.
If I actually had to go to a place where weapons were needed, I would make it my business to get formal training in self-defense from somebody who knew what they were talking about.
But weapons aren't needed on Amtrak or in its stations.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
I've personally visited New York, Phoenix, and New Orleans on my own without issue or incident despite a lack of knives or sprays. That's not to say your concerns about traveling on Amtrak are invalid but if you're convinced that travel is especially dangerous right now why rush into a trip instead of waiting for things to calm down?
That video quietly demonstrates how much having two seats to yourself can improve the coach experience. It boggles my mind that Amtrak resists selling two seats to one passenger or even just installing an armrest to keep things comfortable between strangers. I don't consider Amtrak to be dangerous but I do feel there are means and methods to make travel on Amtrak safer and more enjoyable.
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NapTown Jim
Train Attendant
My first Amtrak ride was on the Lake Shore Limited. I was riding coach to New York City. There was a belligerent drunk (not violent) in my car. He was drinking too much and kept demanding his wife/girlfriend give him more money so he could go get another drink. The conductor warned him to stop or else he would kick him off the train. He didn't stop.
When the train stopped at Waterloo, there were two sheriff cars there waiting for us. The conductor kicked him off the train. He told the woman she didn't have to get off and was free to continue her journey to NYC. She decided to get off the train with her man, poor woman.
The point of this story is that I feel extremely safe on Amtrak...more than any airline, because if there's trouble the police can be there at any time to remove the trouble makers.
When the train stopped at Waterloo, there were two sheriff cars there waiting for us. The conductor kicked him off the train. He told the woman she didn't have to get off and was free to continue her journey to NYC. She decided to get off the train with her man, poor woman.
The point of this story is that I feel extremely safe on Amtrak...more than any airline, because if there's trouble the police can be there at any time to remove the trouble makers.
20th Century Rider
Engineer
Amtrak stations are safe and well patrolled! Amtrak trains are safe! There is an attendant in every car... and they have an ongoing promo... 'If you see something, say something!' With all the priorities being so geared on safety, you will be safe on Amtrak... Bolstered by random security checks of carry on bags, police walk throughs at stations... sometimes with dogs... all in the interest of safety. Illegal substances are probably the biggest concern... especially near international boarders. LD trains are safe!
Walking around large cities like Phoenix is a completely different issue. Use common sense. Do bring a whistle and mace; check with hotel concierge re ok places to be strolling.
I have read that many people find the process of planning a trip almost as enjoyable as the trip itself. I think back about my trips and I can understand the thinking.
I have ridden coach all around the country and found it comfortable enough when there was an empty seat next to me. It is best if train schedules allow for an occasional overnight stay before continuing the next morning but that might be difficult with current Amtrak schedules.
While I have always felt safe I have also witnessed some criminal behavior on Amtrak. Once an intoxicated man removed for tearing up the dining room. A man sexually harassing a young woman travelling alone, which resulted in the conductor threatening to remove the offender.
People have a bit of trouble getting away with this kind of behavior as Amtrak is federal property and can call on assistance from federal agents if necessary, somewhat like air marshals on a flight, I guess.
As far as DIY self defense, I found these items on the Amtrak website. I have no idea if or how they are enforced.
But this is the official policy.
https://www.amtrak.com/terms-and-conditions.html#baggageInformation-specialAndProhibitedItems
----------------------------------------------------
Corrosive or dangerous chemicals or materials
Including, but not limited to, liquid bleach, tear gas, radioactive and harmful bacteriological materials.
Including but not limited to billy clubs, nightsticks, and nunchuks.
I have ridden coach all around the country and found it comfortable enough when there was an empty seat next to me. It is best if train schedules allow for an occasional overnight stay before continuing the next morning but that might be difficult with current Amtrak schedules.
While I have always felt safe I have also witnessed some criminal behavior on Amtrak. Once an intoxicated man removed for tearing up the dining room. A man sexually harassing a young woman travelling alone, which resulted in the conductor threatening to remove the offender.
People have a bit of trouble getting away with this kind of behavior as Amtrak is federal property and can call on assistance from federal agents if necessary, somewhat like air marshals on a flight, I guess.
As far as DIY self defense, I found these items on the Amtrak website. I have no idea if or how they are enforced.
But this is the official policy.
https://www.amtrak.com/terms-and-conditions.html#baggageInformation-specialAndProhibitedItems
----------------------------------------------------
Corrosive or dangerous chemicals or materials
Including, but not limited to, liquid bleach, tear gas, radioactive and harmful bacteriological materials.
- Carry-On: Not allowed
- Checked: Not allowed
Including but not limited to billy clubs, nightsticks, and nunchuks.
- Carry-On: Not allowed
- Checked: Not allowed
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- Jul 16, 2010
- Messages
- 4,893
Some suggestions:
Keep Amtrak Police phone number and text number in your favorites or at top of list (by putting a number or blank at the front of name). They can get a hold of local police.
Always look around building you are in for location of fire alarm. Police may or may not respond immediately but firefighters ALWAYS come. It is easy to pull alarm and hard to call and explain your danger to police. You can always claim you smelled smoke or gas and they can't dispute that. At a hotel, teens were partying all night with lots of noise and management refused to do anything. When they set off local alarm, I called 911 and said alarm had gone off. I was asked if I smelled smoke. or saw fire. I simply stated I had 2 kids and was leaving now and wasn't waiting to look for anything. Then I hung up on them. They rolled 3 fire trucks and an ambulance and were there before we reached the office. I told the manager why we were leaving as he was trying to explain to the fire chief why he had not investigated yet whether there was a real fire. His problem, not mine. But those guys come and they ALWAYS come fast. I know. I was chief of a volunteer department and always told people - "Call first. Then look". Best to have people on the way who will come ASAP.
If people come close that you don't feel comfortable with, take out your phone, bring up phone app, put in the 911 but don't hit send. If the danger increases, all you have to do is hit send, not have to first bring up the app and then hit 911. Seconds count. If you do have to call 911 from cell, give address/location FIRST. It doesn't help to know your name or what is wrong if they don't know where you are. Even if phone is taken away from you, they can usually figure out what is needed by sounds in background. If they know where, they know where to send someone even not knowing what the problem is.
Remember, in some areas if you yell POLICE, people run and hide but if you yell FIRE, people come and want to see.
Keep Amtrak Police phone number and text number in your favorites or at top of list (by putting a number or blank at the front of name). They can get a hold of local police.
Always look around building you are in for location of fire alarm. Police may or may not respond immediately but firefighters ALWAYS come. It is easy to pull alarm and hard to call and explain your danger to police. You can always claim you smelled smoke or gas and they can't dispute that. At a hotel, teens were partying all night with lots of noise and management refused to do anything. When they set off local alarm, I called 911 and said alarm had gone off. I was asked if I smelled smoke. or saw fire. I simply stated I had 2 kids and was leaving now and wasn't waiting to look for anything. Then I hung up on them. They rolled 3 fire trucks and an ambulance and were there before we reached the office. I told the manager why we were leaving as he was trying to explain to the fire chief why he had not investigated yet whether there was a real fire. His problem, not mine. But those guys come and they ALWAYS come fast. I know. I was chief of a volunteer department and always told people - "Call first. Then look". Best to have people on the way who will come ASAP.
If people come close that you don't feel comfortable with, take out your phone, bring up phone app, put in the 911 but don't hit send. If the danger increases, all you have to do is hit send, not have to first bring up the app and then hit 911. Seconds count. If you do have to call 911 from cell, give address/location FIRST. It doesn't help to know your name or what is wrong if they don't know where you are. Even if phone is taken away from you, they can usually figure out what is needed by sounds in background. If they know where, they know where to send someone even not knowing what the problem is.
Remember, in some areas if you yell POLICE, people run and hide but if you yell FIRE, people come and want to see.
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- Jan 17, 2019
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- 1,865
I understand that some people have been subject to a significant amount of unpleasantness when their bear spray accidently discharged in their pocket. I believe discharging it on Amtrak would cause a rapid evacuation of the car.
I believe it is against the Amtrak and airline policies to carry bear spray on Amtrak or in a commercial airliner, whether in carry-on or in checked luggage. I naively violated the policy on a plane once in 2001 (before 9/11) with no bad consequences.
I am a fairly small woman (5'2") and have been traveling on Amtrak since Amtrak became Amtrak. Although I have occasionally traveled with others, most of the time I traveled alone. When I was younger and could not afford a sleeper, I traveled in coach. If available, I now travel in a sleeper. I have never felt unsafe (in over 286,000 miles) on an Amtrak train. I have seen numerous passengers (usually men) removed from trains for various reasons (usually alcohol related) and always appreciated the fact that the crew was looking out for the safety and welfare of the passengers. I do not recall not feeling safe in an Amtrak station.
Some neighborhoods around stations are not the greatest and I may have been a bit reluctant to walk from the station to my destination. However, most of the time, if my destination is within a couple of miles, I walk from the station to my destination. I carry no weapons, no sprays, no alarms. I am aware of my surroundings and try to walk during the day light hours, if possible. However, I am comfortable on the streets of Chicago and midtown Manhattan (near Penn Station) after dark.
Some neighborhoods around stations are not the greatest and I may have been a bit reluctant to walk from the station to my destination. However, most of the time, if my destination is within a couple of miles, I walk from the station to my destination. I carry no weapons, no sprays, no alarms. I am aware of my surroundings and try to walk during the day light hours, if possible. However, I am comfortable on the streets of Chicago and midtown Manhattan (near Penn Station) after dark.
This is Penny and I
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
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- 4,796
They're, of course, the safest people to ride with. After all, they certainly don't want to do anything that will send them back in!
Definitely not the vibe they were sending out on the way to Chicago but as always your mileage may vary
That trip is what made me always buy business class when available
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