Service along the FEC

[user 1215]

There's been a lot of talk of wanting to see the Palmetto returned to it's Silver Palm route. And I seem to recall that there's even been some talk about the route along the Florida East Coast Railway being used to run a service from Jax through the major beach destinations to Miami, ie: St. Augustine, Daytona, Cocoa, and Vero.

Is that even possible?

I'd like to also see the East Coast service in SE Georgia go through Brunswick and bypass Jessup all together, but there's no rail suitable for pax there...

But I wonder how much time could be saved on a streamlined route from NYP to MIA essentially following I-95? I wouldn't kill off the existing routes, because servicing Tampa and Orlando is a must.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

There's been a lot of talk of wanting to see the Palmetto returned to it's Silver Palm route. And I seem to recall that there's even been some talk about the route along the Florida East Coast Railway being used to run a service from Jax through the major beach destinations to Miami, ie: St. Augustine, Daytona, Cocoa, and Vero.
Is that even possible?

I'd like to also see the East Coast service in SE Georgia go through Brunswick and bypass Jessup all together, but there's no rail suitable for pax there...

But I wonder how much time could be saved on a streamlined route from NYP to MIA essentially following I-95? I wouldn't kill off the existing routes, because servicing Tampa and Orlando is a must.

It is my understanding that the FEC is still a viable freight line, still in good shape, etc. so at least it is not as if the track has been abandoned, etc, so far as I know.

 

[MattW]

I'd really like to see the line run up the FEC, then hang a left somewhere and burn towards Atlanta maybe via Waycross. I'd like to see service on into Chicago, but that's asking for a lot. This route through Georgia would take lots of traffic off I-75 for both beach and Disney-goers.

 

[battalion51]

There's been a lot of talk of wanting to see the Palmetto returned to it's Silver Palm route. And I seem to recall that there's even been some talk about the route along the Florida East Coast Railway being used to run a service from Jax through the major beach destinations to Miami, ie: St. Augustine, Daytona, Cocoa, and Vero.
Is that even possible?

I'd like to also see the East Coast service in SE Georgia go through Brunswick and bypass Jessup all together, but there's no rail suitable for pax there...

But I wonder how much time could be saved on a streamlined route from NYP to MIA essentially following I-95? I wouldn't kill off the existing routes, because servicing Tampa and Orlando is a must.

There's still active discussions about establishing service on the FEC from what I understand. Rail America seems to be open to the idea because it means state and federal dollars would be pumped in to upgrade their tracks and add capacity. There are a few hurdles to overcome. FEC is a cab signaled line (using the poor man's cab signal). Amtrak engines currently aren't set up to be able to read this type of signal. There would have to be a few motors set up to be able to read this type of signal. My guess is that you'd probably see a captive fleet (P-40's possibly...) that would work the train from MIA-JAX and then do a power change at JAX. It's about 300 miles from South JAX to West Palm via FEC whereas it's 347 via CSX. So you save about 50 miles, but that translates to roughly an hour (when station stops are factored in). One of the big challenges is creating a connection between FDOT tracks and FEC in the West Palm area. There are two possible connections, one at 6th St and one North of Mangonia. The issue is that both of these lines are in terrible shape, and as I understand it are only set up for a NB move from the FEC. So you have to upgrade these connections and possibly put in the other leg of the wye, or make a reverse move on every trip. I think we're unlikely to see this happen until the project to get Tri-Rail service to Jupiter occurs. The state of Florida is also not really in a position to be spending oodles of money right now. We're facing MAJOR budget shortfalls here. They're going to be cutting hundreds of millions from higher education, so this project is a few years out to say the least. The only way it could happen quicker is if it gets federal stimulus money.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I live very close to the FEC line in Jacksonville. The line in a decent shape. At one time it was double tracked all the way from JAX to MIA and there is room on the right of way to add a second track where there is not one now. There has also been discussion on the south end about making a second Tri-rail line from WPB to MIA along the FEC. I have some older aquaintences in JAX who remember 4 very well patronized passenger trains in each direction on the FEC back in the 1950s. There are some good tourist destinations along the FEC including St Augustine, Daytona, Cocoa Beach etc. Florida is about like Georgia when it comes to supporting passenger rail, not! There are also some strong lobbyists against the type of passenger rail California has even though Florida has the population to support it.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I'd really like to see the line run up the FEC, then hang a left somewhere and burn towards Atlanta maybe via Waycross. I'd like to see service on into Chicago, but that's asking for a lot. This route through Georgia would take lots of traffic off I-75 for both beach and Disney-goers.

See me holding my hand up,too, Matt. There used to be a lot of business on the FEC, to New York, Chicago, Detroit,Cincinnati, St. Louis, even a through sleeper, not an entire train, to Kansas City.

Some on here have heard this a million times but my first ride,age three,1947, was on the Dixie Flagler which went Chicago, Evansville, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta,Jax and FEC to MIA. My trip was from Chattanooga to Daytona Beach, this is where it all began for me.

 

[TampAGS]

Some on here have heard this a million times but my first ride,age three,1947, was on the Dixie Flagler which went Chicago, Evansville, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta,Jax and FEC to MIA. My trip was from Chattanooga to Daytona Beach, this is where it all began for me.

Daytona Beach had a nice little station back in the day, from what I understand. It was raised in 1984, unannounced, <tongue in cheek> so as to avoid any trouble from those pesky preservationists. </tongue in cheek>

 

Which leads to another big piece missing from any future Amtrak/FEC puzzle: passenger stations. They've got them a-plenty in south Florida, of course, but between JAX and TRI-Rail, there's not much to speak of. Most stations that were used for FEC's passenger trains way back in the day are gone, and those that survive are either too antiquated or too small. It's ironic considering Henry Flagler so heavily relied on passenger service to and from his grand hotels to get his railroad established.

 

[The Other Amtrak Joe]

I used to live in Palm Beach County and, indeed, the FEC is not only alive but prospering. Single track in a lot of area, but

good speed for freight and shouldn't have much of a problem with 79mph running depending upon signaling. You "climb" up

to their rails which are on thick ballast and welded. Market is a natural high speed route between Jacksonville and West Palm

Beach, but further south runs through densely populated areas with a lot of grade crossings. Would need to remove these

to permit higher speeds.

 

[jis]

[it is my understanding that the FEC is still a viable freight line, still in good shape, etc. so at least it is not as if the track has been abandoned, etc, so far as I know.

FEC is a Class 5 track railroad. Ironically their tracks on an average are in better shape than CSX's.

There is a slight issue of a current lack of suitable connectivity I think, for getting trains from FEC back onto Tri-Rail/CSX around West Palm so that the trains can get to Miami station. However, this is likely to get addressed when Tri-Rail gets around to extending service to Jupiter.

 

[user 1215]

Daytona Beach had a nice little station back in the day, from what I understand. It was raised in 1984, unannounced, <tongue in cheek> so as to avoid any trouble from those pesky preservationists. </tongue in cheek>

That would be "razed" not raised... An interesting English anomole - the only two words where the homonym is also the antonym.

 

[George Harris]

It's ironic considering Henry Flagler so heavily relied on passenger service to and from his grand hotels to get his railroad established.

The reverse is actually the truth. Flagler used the railroad to promote his south Florida developments. FEC never paid a dividend until long after becoming freight only. Flager was not really interested in the railroad being profitable by itself, although I am sure he would not have objected to the idea. He wanted to have convenient transportation between south Florida and the rest of the nation. By the way, for most of its existence the FEC was not speedway, either. With lots of stops for the through trains on the Florida coast, the speed to points north depended upon ACL's enthusiasm for speed.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

It's ironic considering Henry Flagler so heavily relied on passenger service to and from his grand hotels to get his railroad established.

The reverse is actually the truth. Flagler used the railroad to promote his south Florida developments. FEC never paid a dividend until long after becoming freight only. Flager was not really interested in the railroad being profitable by itself, although I am sure he would not have objected to the idea. He wanted to have convenient transportation between south Florida and the rest of the nation. By the way, for most of its existence the FEC was not speedway, either. With lots of stops for the through trains on the Florida coast, the speed to points north depended upon ACL's enthusiasm for speed.

George.I am glad you spoke about this, I am quite sure many know this is an important topic for me, anything Flagler. But I actually had little personal experience with the FEC itself, most of my travels being north of there.

I guess my questions, you mention it not being a speedway. I fully realize all the many stops all of the very best trains made. But I sort of thought it was a speedway between stops? Was it not? I guess another question would be OTP. How was that? I realize most of the "name" trains did not carry mail, so they did not have that problem.

If you could give me a "sense "of its daily operations I would appreciate, like were trains routinely 20 or 30 minutes late or was it run with the precision such great names as Florida Special, East Coast Champion,Vacationer, Miamian, Dixie Flagler, South Wind, City of Miami, New Royal Palm, etc would seem to demand.

I realize all the stops alright. For example, the New Royal Palm only made four stops between Cincinnati and Jacksonsville, but about 20 beween JAX and MIA.

 

[henryj]

checking the Official Guide for 1956 shows the FEC route to be 366 miles. The Champion and the Chicago trains did this in 7 1/2 hrs. The SAL route at the time was 406 miles and the Silver Star and Silver Meteor ran this route in 7hrs flat. By contrast, Amtrak's current route for the Meteor is 412 miles and takes 9hrs. A huge difference. There is nothing wrong with the FEC track except that it has been single tracked since passenger trains were removed from the route. The biggest problem I see with the FEC is it doesn't go through Orlando. Orlando is now the biggest attraction in Florida attracting 50 million visitors a year. This was not the case when the FEC and SAL ran their passenger trains. However, it does serve a number of east coast Florida communities that do not now have passenger service. They could always run a bus connection to Orlando from Cocoa and Cape Canaveral.

 

[DET63]

Daytona Beach had a nice little station back in the day, from what I understand. It was raised in 1984, unannounced, <tongue in cheek> so as to avoid any trouble from those pesky preservationists. </tongue in cheek>

That would be "razed" not raised... An interesting English anomole - the only two words where the homonym is also the antonym.

Actually, there are "cleave" (to put together) and "cleave" (to cut apart), which are not only antonyms but homophones and homographs. However, one of the verbs (I believe the one meaning "to cut apart") is irregular (past tense: "cleft"; past participle: "cloven").

Oh, well, back to the topic at hand . . .

 

[TampAGS]

The biggest problem I see with the FEC is it doesn't go through Orlando. Orlando is now the biggest attraction in Florida attracting 50 million visitors a year. This was not the case when the FEC and SAL ran their passenger trains. However, it does serve a number of east coast Florida communities that do not now have passenger service. They could always run a bus connection to Orlando from Cocoa and Cape Canaveral.

Well, if you're looking at this from the perspective of replacing current service with trains using FEC-track, there's also Tampa to consider, which, for the record, sees more passengers per year than Miami (with half the number of trains). In fact, Tampa's passenger growth rate last year was three times the national average and the highest of any station in Florida.

 

The FDOT, in their 2006 "Vision Plan" on intercity passenger rail identified two options: Inland Route (mirrors our present system), and Coastal Route (using FEC track). A contingency of the Coastal Route plan was the construction of new track using the Beeline/Beachline right-of-way between Cocoa Beach and Orlando, then connecting on to Tampa. Such a plan would be the only remotely feasible option in terms of replacing existing CSX-tracked service with an FEC-tracked model.

 

[AlanB]

Well, if you're looking at this from the perspective of replacing current service with trains using FEC-track, there's also Tampa to consider, which, for the record, sees more passengers per year than Miami (with half the number of trains). In fact, Tampa's passenger growth rate last year was three times the national average and the highest of any station in Florida.

While it is true that Tampa had more people board/disembark that Miami, it's also important to keep a bit of perspective regarding that. Tampa is the only Amtrak stop that could really be considered to be on the West Coast of Florida. Whereas many people who would to some extent consider Hollywood and Fort Lauderdale to be an extension of Miami. Adding in just those two stops to Miami's numbers, and you've surpased Tampa.

I'm not trying to put down Tampa, not am I trying to piss off anyone by saying that Fort Lauderale is a part of Miami. But the reality is that those three stops are close together and collectively make a major destination for the southern portion of the East Coast of Florida.

 

[henryj]

The biggest problem I see with the FEC is it doesn't go through Orlando. Orlando is now the biggest attraction in Florida attracting 50 million visitors a year. This was not the case when the FEC and SAL ran their passenger trains. However, it does serve a number of east coast Florida communities that do not now have passenger service. They could always run a bus connection to Orlando from Cocoa and Cape Canaveral.

Well, if you're looking at this from the perspective of replacing current service with trains using FEC-track, there's also Tampa to consider, which, for the record, sees more passengers per year than Miami (with half the number of trains). In fact, Tampa's passenger growth rate last year was three times the national average and the highest of any station in Florida.

 

The FDOT, in their 2006 "Vision Plan" on intercity passenger rail identified two options: Inland Route (mirrors our present system), and Coastal Route (using FEC track). A contingency of the Coastal Route plan was the construction of new track using the Beeline/Beachline right-of-way between Cocoa Beach and Orlando, then connecting on to Tampa. Such a plan would be the only remotely feasible option in terms of replacing existing CSX-tracked service with an FEC-tracked model.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of additional service on the FEC along the coast to suplement the LD trains that go through Orlando and connect with them in JAX and Miami.

 

[user 1215]

That was my original intent of this thread, too. Let's keep all existing services, and find a way to build an express route along the Atlantic Coast from JAX to MIA (maybe even as far North as Charleston, but there's no continguous track that hugs the coast).

 

[TampAGS]

Well, if you're looking at this from the perspective of replacing current service with trains using FEC-track, there's also Tampa to consider, which, for the record, sees more passengers per year than Miami (with half the number of trains). In fact, Tampa's passenger growth rate last year was three times the national average and the highest of any station in Florida.

While it is true that Tampa had more people board/disembark that Miami, it's also important to keep a bit of perspective regarding that. Tampa is the only Amtrak stop that could really be considered to be on the West Coast of Florida. Whereas many people who would to some extent consider Hollywood and Fort Lauderdale to be an extension of Miami. Adding in just those two stops to Miami's numbers, and you've surpased Tampa.

I'm not trying to put down Tampa, not am I trying to piss off anyone by saying that Fort Lauderale is a part of Miami. But the reality is that those three stops are close together and collectively make a major destination for the southern portion of the East Coast of Florida.

Yes, the last three south Florida stations as a team are absolutely a major destination. I've traveled to both Hollywood and Ft. Lauderdale via Amtrak myself in the past year. Their numbers collectively do surpass Tampa's, but that's not surprising given that all three cities are serviced by four trains a day. Tampa sees only two. Still, with half the number of trains, ridership in Tampa grew 34% during FY08, compared with increases of 13-20% in MIA, FTL and HOL.

The west-coast counterparts of FTL and HOL in this analogy are St. Petersburg and Clearwater. Unfortunately, neither have had passenger rail service in decades (due to CSX abandoning the line, from what I understand). Its hard to guess what kind of ridership they would have if service still existed, but the numbers would be significant. St. Pete is Florida's fourth-largest city, and Pinellas County has the highest population density in the state.

 

The east coast is fortunate to have the FEC track as a viable and realistic option for expansion of service. The coastal communities of North and Central Florida definitely deserve passenger rail. I used to live on the east coast and would love to be able to catch a train out of Daytona Beach rather than going to DeLand. I hope that if and when they send additional trains to Miami beyond the four they get today, that they consider either adding service back to Tampa or begin seriously looking into improving west-coast service to something other than Thruway coaches. With adequate service, the region could be just as significant a destination as Miami is.

 

[AlanB]

Well, if you're looking at this from the perspective of replacing current service with trains using FEC-track, there's also Tampa to consider, which, for the record, sees more passengers per year than Miami (with half the number of trains). In fact, Tampa's passenger growth rate last year was three times the national average and the highest of any station in Florida.

While it is true that Tampa had more people board/disembark that Miami, it's also important to keep a bit of perspective regarding that. Tampa is the only Amtrak stop that could really be considered to be on the West Coast of Florida. Whereas many people who would to some extent consider Hollywood and Fort Lauderdale to be an extension of Miami. Adding in just those two stops to Miami's numbers, and you've surpased Tampa.

I'm not trying to put down Tampa, not am I trying to piss off anyone by saying that Fort Lauderale is a part of Miami. But the reality is that those three stops are close together and collectively make a major destination for the southern portion of the East Coast of Florida.

Yes, the last three south Florida stations as a team are absolutely a major destination. I've traveled to both Hollywood and Ft. Lauderdale via Amtrak myself in the past year. Their numbers collectively do surpass Tampa's, but that's not surprising given that all three cities are serviced by four trains a day. Tampa sees only two. Still, with half the number of trains, ridership in Tampa grew 34% during FY08, compared with increases of 13-20% in MIA, FTL and HOL.

The west-coast counterparts of FTL and HOL in this analogy are St. Petersburg and Clearwater. Unfortunately, neither have had passenger rail service in decades (due to CSX abandoning the line, from what I understand). Its hard to guess what kind of ridership they would have if service still existed, but the numbers would be significant. St. Pete is Florida's fourth-largest city, and Pinellas County has the highest population density in the state.

 

The east coast is fortunate to have the FEC track as a viable and realistic option for expansion of service. The coastal communities of North and Central Florida definitely deserve passenger rail. I used to live on the east coast and would love to be able to catch a train out of Daytona Beach rather than going to DeLand. I hope that if and when they send additional trains to Miami beyond the four they get today, that they consider either adding service back to Tampa or begin seriously looking into improving west-coast service to something other than Thruway coaches. With adequate service, the region could be just as significant a destination as Miami is.

I wouldn't argue any of that. Just wanted to keep some perspective on things.

And I definately don't believe that any FEC service should be started if it causes a detriment to service to the west coast. Frankly I think a scenario similar to what the National Growth Strategy proposed several years ago would still be viable and reasonable. IIRC, it went something like this:

Silver Palm stayed on the S-line JAX-TPA, then continued to MIA.

Silver Meteor split at JAX, half going down the FEC, half staying on the current route.

Silver Star split at JAX, half going down the FEC, half going down the A-line and terminating in TPA.

Of course first we have to get the Silver Palm back to even accomplish such a plan.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Well, if you're looking at this from the perspective of replacing current service with trains using FEC-track, there's also Tampa to consider, which, for the record, sees more passengers per year than Miami (with half the number of trains). In fact, Tampa's passenger growth rate last year was three times the national average and the highest of any station in Florida.

While it is true that Tampa had more people board/disembark that Miami, it's also important to keep a bit of perspective regarding that. Tampa is the only Amtrak stop that could really be considered to be on the West Coast of Florida. Whereas many people who would to some extent consider Hollywood and Fort Lauderdale to be an extension of Miami. Adding in just those two stops to Miami's numbers, and you've surpased Tampa.

I'm not trying to put down Tampa, not am I trying to piss off anyone by saying that Fort Lauderale is a part of Miami. But the reality is that those three stops are close together and collectively make a major destination for the southern portion of the East Coast of Florida.

Yes, the last three south Florida stations as a team are absolutely a major destination. I've traveled to both Hollywood and Ft. Lauderdale via Amtrak myself in the past year. Their numbers collectively do surpass Tampa's, but that's not surprising given that all three cities are serviced by four trains a day. Tampa sees only two. Still, with half the number of trains, ridership in Tampa grew 34% during FY08, compared with increases of 13-20% in MIA, FTL and HOL.

The west-coast counterparts of FTL and HOL in this analogy are St. Petersburg and Clearwater. Unfortunately, neither have had passenger rail service in decades (due to CSX abandoning the line, from what I understand). Its hard to guess what kind of ridership they would have if service still existed, but the numbers would be significant. St. Pete is Florida's fourth-largest city, and Pinellas County has the highest population density in the state.

 

The east coast is fortunate to have the FEC track as a viable and realistic option for expansion of service. The coastal communities of North and Central Florida definitely deserve passenger rail. I used to live on the east coast and would love to be able to catch a train out of Daytona Beach rather than going to DeLand. I hope that if and when they send additional trains to Miami beyond the four they get today, that they consider either adding service back to Tampa or begin seriously looking into improving west-coast service to something other than Thruway coaches. With adequate service, the region could be just as significant a destination as Miami is.

I wouldn't argue any of that. Just wanted to keep some perspective on things.

And I definately don't believe that any FEC service should be started if it causes a detriment to service to the west coast. Frankly I think a scenario similar to what the National Growth Strategy proposed several years ago would still be viable and reasonable. IIRC, it went something like this:

Silver Palm stayed on the S-line JAX-TPA, then continued to MIA.

Silver Meteor split at JAX, half going down the FEC, half staying on the current route.

Silver Palm split at JAX, half going down the FEC, half going down the A-line and terminating in TPA.

Of course first we have to get the Silver Palm back to even accomplish such a plan.

Which did you mean to be the Silver Star?

 

[AlanB]

Well, if you're looking at this from the perspective of replacing current service with trains using FEC-track, there's also Tampa to consider, which, for the record, sees more passengers per year than Miami (with half the number of trains). In fact, Tampa's passenger growth rate last year was three times the national average and the highest of any station in Florida.

While it is true that Tampa had more people board/disembark that Miami, it's also important to keep a bit of perspective regarding that. Tampa is the only Amtrak stop that could really be considered to be on the West Coast of Florida. Whereas many people who would to some extent consider Hollywood and Fort Lauderdale to be an extension of Miami. Adding in just those two stops to Miami's numbers, and you've surpased Tampa.

I'm not trying to put down Tampa, not am I trying to piss off anyone by saying that Fort Lauderale is a part of Miami. But the reality is that those three stops are close together and collectively make a major destination for the southern portion of the East Coast of Florida.

Yes, the last three south Florida stations as a team are absolutely a major destination. I've traveled to both Hollywood and Ft. Lauderdale via Amtrak myself in the past year. Their numbers collectively do surpass Tampa's, but that's not surprising given that all three cities are serviced by four trains a day. Tampa sees only two. Still, with half the number of trains, ridership in Tampa grew 34% during FY08, compared with increases of 13-20% in MIA, FTL and HOL.

The west-coast counterparts of FTL and HOL in this analogy are St. Petersburg and Clearwater. Unfortunately, neither have had passenger rail service in decades (due to CSX abandoning the line, from what I understand). Its hard to guess what kind of ridership they would have if service still existed, but the numbers would be significant. St. Pete is Florida's fourth-largest city, and Pinellas County has the highest population density in the state.

 

The east coast is fortunate to have the FEC track as a viable and realistic option for expansion of service. The coastal communities of North and Central Florida definitely deserve passenger rail. I used to live on the east coast and would love to be able to catch a train out of Daytona Beach rather than going to DeLand. I hope that if and when they send additional trains to Miami beyond the four they get today, that they consider either adding service back to Tampa or begin seriously looking into improving west-coast service to something other than Thruway coaches. With adequate service, the region could be just as significant a destination as Miami is.

I wouldn't argue any of that. Just wanted to keep some perspective on things.

And I definately don't believe that any FEC service should be started if it causes a detriment to service to the west coast. Frankly I think a scenario similar to what the National Growth Strategy proposed several years ago would still be viable and reasonable. IIRC, it went something like this:

Silver Palm stayed on the S-line JAX-TPA, then continued to MIA.

Silver Meteor split at JAX, half going down the FEC, half staying on the current route.

Silver Star split at JAX, half going down the FEC, half going down the A-line and terminating in TPA.

Of course first we have to get the Silver Palm back to even accomplish such a plan.

Which did you mean to be the Silver Star?

Oops.

Sorry, fixed that.

 

[battalion51]

In all honesty, if Florida is going to ever embrace rail travel, they need to get Regional service going. If the state were to invest some money in the infrastructure (like CA, OR, WA and others have), we could see some phenomenal trains running even within the state. If you put CTC in and do track upgrades from PNS-TLH, you could very easily run an in state train from MIA to PNS each day. Although I would be content with just getting any service back to the panhandle/Big Bend.

 

[jphjaxfl]

In all honesty, if Florida is going to ever embrace rail travel, they need to get Regional service going. If the state were to invest some money in the infrastructure (like CA, OR, WA and others have), we could see some phenomenal trains running even within the state. If you put CTC in and do track upgrades from PNS-TLH, you could very easily run an in state train from MIA to PNS each day. Although I would be content with just getting any service back to the panhandle/Big Bend.

You will need a major change in politics in TLH. If they killed Sun Rail and loose access to federal dollars that some other state will likely get, I don't see them backing state subsidized Amtrak service. Florida is certainly ripe for expanded passenger train services as well as commuter rail in the major areas to be similar to Tri Rail. If the pols don't get their act together, it will be tough to do anything.

 

[George Harris]

In all honesty, if Florida is going to ever embrace rail travel, they need to get Regional service going. If the state were to invest some money in the infrastructure (like CA, OR, WA and others have), we could see some phenomenal trains running even within the state. If you put CTC in and do track upgrades from PNS-TLH, you could very easily run an in state train from MIA to PNS each day. Although I would be content with just getting any service back to the panhandle/Big Bend.

You will need a major change in politics in TLH. If they killed Sun Rail and loose access to federal dollars that some other state will likely get, I don't see them backing state subsidized Amtrak service. Florida is certainly ripe for expanded passenger train services as well as commuter rail in the major areas to be similar to Tri Rail. If the pols don't get their act together, it will be tough to do anything.

One huge problem in Florida is that you have a large number of retirees from the high-tax states in the northeast that came to low-tax Florida and want to keep it that way, and these people get out and vote at a very high percentage so they have clout out of proportion to their number. The problem is that they want the services that can only come with a high-tax regime. The second problem with these people is they would like to keep the state as third-world as possible otherwise. Therefore, there are major funding problems with such things as the education system as that is in most states a fairly high percentage of the cost of a state government. Besides, why do they care about the local yokels getting a good education or anything else that would work against having a good proportion of low skilled low wage people to do thier work, except of course in things medical. So, why would these people care about education in Florida? Their kids are grown and their grandkids are in other states, and gofers, gardeners and caretakers do not need lots of education. Transportation is somewhere in between. It would be nice if more were spent on transportation facilities, but when it relates to their day to day situation that does not mean a lot to these people.

Thanks to the terrain, Florida would be an easy state in which to set up reasonable speed passenger services between major in-state points. At the least, start with about 3 to 4 a day between Tampa / St. Pete and Miami, Tampa / St. Pete and Orlando on to Jacksonville, and build up from there.