Service horses

[HenryK]

Has anyone on this forum ever personally seen (NOT heard about) a miniature service horse riding Amtrak? If so, I'd love to hear about it. (Yes, this is for the book I'm writing about traveling with service animals.)

The attached, by the way, was at Galesburg on No. 5 in 2015. Not a horse, but close!

 

[Palmetto]

It seems that some people are taking advantage of the notion of "service". "Comfort" animals is another story. Do you think this critter would be allowed on an airline? I don't. And not on Amtrak either. I think the 20 lb. limit is exceeded with this guy. Maybe he's just out for a walk to watch trains?

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I have seen a dog as a service animal on an Amtrak train. They get their own seat check.

If you haven't read this yet, a good source about info on what truly is a service animal can be found at: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

 

[KmH]

I know Amtrak's pet ride along policy states a 20 lb limit, but is Amtrak allowed to apply a weight limit to Service dogs?

 

[Everydaymatters]

Oddly, that looks a lot like a lady I saw a few years ago with her "service" dog on the CZ. Looks like she's moved up to a bigger animal.

 

[me_little_me]

I know Amtrak's pet ride along policy states a 20 lb limit, but is Amtrak allowed to apply a weight limit to Service dogs?

No. All guide dogs for the blind I have ever seen appear to be far moe than 20 pounds.

Oddly, that looks a lot like a lady I saw a few years ago with her "service" dog on the CZ. Looks like she's moved up to a bigger animal.

Or the puppy got bigger as it aged?

 

[StriderGDM]

Service dogs are not pets so pet bans don't apply to them.

One analogy is to think of a service dog as a medical device, like a wheelchair or walker.

Service dogs are defined here:

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

My understanding is miniature horses no longer qualify (but once did).

Note that a service dog must perform an actual medical service for its handler and that businesses and others may only ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability. (they can, from another source apparently ask some minor follow-up clarification questions).

They can not ask what the actual disability is. And if a service animal is disruptive (barking, growling, peeing inside, etc.) they can be removed. But not because of the idea that they MIGHT be disruptive.

Comfort animals are not covered by the ADA but there are various other laws that do cover them. I don't know their status on Amtrak trains.

 

[John Bobinyec]

There's one which rides between Burlington, NC, and Durham, NC. You can search in that area for someone with direct evidence.

jb

 

[BCL]

Is that a Great Dane?

 

[Lonestar648]

I saw a time when a woman with a very large "service dog" was asked to take the next train because her train was over sold. Many of us waiting questioned if her huge dog was really a service dog. not because of the size, but rather its temperament, failure to heed commands, and constant growling. She wasn't blind because she asked someone to watch the dog when she walked down the corridor to the bathroom. The dog wore the "Service Animal" vest. She wasn't happy, but agreed to take the later train.

 

[BCL]

I saw a time when a woman with a very large "service dog" was asked to take the next train because her train was over sold. Many of us waiting questioned if her huge dog was really a service dog. not because of the size, but rather its temperament, failure to heed commands, and constant growling. She wasn't blind because she asked someone to watch the dog when she walked down the corridor to the bathroom. The dog wore the "Service Animal" vest. She wasn't happy, but agreed to take the later train.

Having a "service dog" doesn't mean a blanket requirement to put up with anything and everything. If it is constantly barking at people or shows aggression, it can be removed A service animal that damages property can mean requiring the owner to pay for those damages.

 

[StriderGDM]

I saw a time when a woman with a very large "service dog" was asked to take the next train because her train was over sold. Many of us waiting questioned if her huge dog was really a service dog. not because of the size, but rather its temperament, failure to heed commands, and constant growling. She wasn't blind because she asked someone to watch the dog when she walked down the corridor to the bathroom. The dog wore the "Service Animal" vest. She wasn't happy, but agreed to take the later train.

My guess, from this one description is that she was lying. In part because as you say it's temperament and failure to heed commands and constant growling. And I honestly can't imagine a person handing the care of their service dog to a complete stranger like that.

 

[PVD]

Airlines are covered under a different version of regulations because of the "Air Carrier Access Act" and have to deal with comfort and emotional support animals, Amtrak does not as the ADA provisions for rail transit do not require it.

Excerpted from Amtrak manual:

e) Type of Service Animals
There are many different types of service animals.
• Dogs, although the most common service animal,
are not the only animals used as service animals.
• Cats, monkeys, pot bellied pigs, miniature
guide horses and birds are also used as service
animals.

 

[KmH]

Is that a Great Dane?

Yep.

We had a Great Dane when I was a kid.

His name was Chico.

 

[caravanman]

Not all medical problems are apparent to the eye. I believe we should follow the guidelines and not try to "judge" others needs.

If any animal is behaving outside the laid down rules, then it should be removed, that stands to reason.

Just my few cents worth...

Ed.

 

[BCL]

Is that a Great Dane?

Yep.

We had a Great Dane when I was a kid.

His name was Chico.

Wasn't quite sure with that photo. I thought Great Danes were supposed to have more droopy jowls, but I suppose there's a lot of variation.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Is that a Great Dane?

Yep.

We had a Great Dane when I was a kid.

His name was Chico.

Wasn't quite sure with that photo. I thought Great Danes were supposed to have more droopy jowls, but I suppose there's a lot of variation.

Perhaps you're thinking of Bloodhounds?

 

[HenryK]

According to the US Justice Department's ADA rules, a service animal is either a dog or a miniature horse. Not pigs, turkeys, cockroaches or other species. (As was mentioned, airlines are under different rules.)

I'm surprised that PVD's Amtrak employee manual mentions animals other than dogs or miniature horses. Maybe it's an old manual.

Or maybe not. The web site does not define a service animal except as one that is trained to perform a task for a person with a disability. The employee manual and the web site are not always parallel on specifics.

 

[BCL]

Is that a Great Dane?

Yep.

We had a Great Dane when I was a kid.

His name was Chico.

Wasn't quite sure with that photo. I thought Great Danes were supposed to have more droopy jowls, but I suppose there's a lot of variation.

Perhaps you're thinking of Bloodhounds?

More like this:

 

[Don Newcomb]

Abuse of the ADA is rampant. My sister-in-law declared her pet beagle to be a service dog so she could carry him on the airline for free. Not a service or "support" animal at all, just a pet. It happens all the time. Whenever I see someone with a "support" animal, my initial reaction is "Yeah, right." It's what happens when Congress passes intentionally vague laws leaving it up to the courts to decide what the laws mean.

 

[mjaynes288]

There are different Great Dane body shapes. Anyone wanting a Great Dane service dog would do well to get a dog with tighter jowls because they drool less. Who wants to carry around a drool rag? The Service Dog Project, an ADI accredited program, trains Great Danes.

I traveled on Amtrak with a large service dog and they always tried to put me in the transfer seat with the accessible space in front of me. After a terrible first experience I always took a seat upstairs. I was never given an extra seat for my service dog but he fit in my footspace much better than an airline. My main problem was all the aggressive dogs. I had an off-leash terrier run up and start biting my dog at a station. They refused to kick him off the train.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Not all medical problems are apparent to the eye.

Which is why staff should be able to ask for formal verification. From what I understand training these animals already costs a small fortune that is rarely if ever charged to the future owner. The added cost of formal accreditation and licensing would likely add minimal financial burden compared to the costs already involved.

Abuse of the ADA is rampant. My sister-in-law declared her pet beagle to be a service dog so she could carry him on the airline for free. Not a service or "support" animal at all, just a pet. It happens all the time. Whenever I see someone with a "support" animal, my initial reaction is "Yeah, right." It's what happens when Congress passes intentionally vague laws leaving it up to the courts to decide what the laws mean.

I don't know if ADA abuse is rampant per se, I mean I've traveled fairly regularly in the post-ADA era and have rarely seen obvious abuse in person, but since narcissism has indeed become rampant I believe it creates a need for a formal verification process.

 

[PVD]

The sad part of the abuse is that it makes people more suspicious and less accepting of the people who are legitimately benefiting from a service animal.

 

[caravanman]

I have no objection to a service dog having a microchip or whatever to "prove" its status. Many dogs in the UK have such, in order to travel abroad, to confirm vaccinations and ownership. My objection is that folk who require one should not be asked "what is wrong with you that you need a service animal"?

If ones initial reaction to seeing a service animal is "yeah, right..." then there is not much that logic and common sense can do to alter that view, I guess.

Ed.

 

[Asher]

It seems that some people are taking advantage of the notion of "service". "Comfort" animals is another story. Do you think this critter would be allowed on an airline? I don't. And not on Amtrak either. I think the 20 lb. limit is exceeded with this guy. Maybe he's just out for a walk to watch trains?

I have traveled on Southwest Airlines where a girl had a dog that big. She was seated in the front row, dog traveled free and was not a service dog.