Service horses

[PVD]

Airlines have a different set of rules, because of an additional law. Emotional support animals are allowed, and in some situations it has been abused to the point the airlines have requested that the rules be modified.

 

[StriderGDM]

To follow up (and we're getting way off-topic).

Many handlers train their own service dogs and if not and it's trained by a 3rd party for some the cost is cost is definitely NOT covered.

Also, for many disabilities, the training is going to be very specific and specialized, so developing certification isn't easy.

And the reason you can't ask the handler what their disability is, is in order to protect their medical privacy.

That said, it's a friggen mess.

 

[Palmetto]

I know pigs are intelligent--so they say--but I need an explanation of how one can be a service animal. BTW, there was a young lady kicked off a US Air flight for bringing a pig on board a couple of years ago.

 

[PVD]

She wasn't kicked off for bringing the pig, she was kicked off because the pig was not kept under proper control and was soiling the cabin as well as other problems. Nobody should expect that their animal be allowed to be out of control whether a pet, a comfort animal, or a service animal.

 

[Palmetto]

She wasn't kicked off for bringing the pig, she was kicked off because the pig was not kept under proper control and was soiling the cabin as well as other problems. Nobody should expect that their animal be allowed to be out of control whether a pet, a comfort animal, or a service animal.

I hadn't heard all those sordid details.

 

[PVD]

back briefly to the original topic:

Under Title II and III of the ADA, service animals are limited to dogs. However, entities must make reasonable modifications in policies to allow individuals with disabilities to use miniature horses if they have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for individuals with disabilities.

 

[CoachSlumber]

Service animals have led to a lot of people who self-diagnose and use very loose rules to scam a way to travel with what are definitely pets.

 

[HenryK]

The State of Michigan, where I spend half the year, has a VOLUNTARY service animal program that helps a bit. A licensed physician must fill out and sign a medical approval attesting to the applicant's disability and need for a service animal, and the applicant must provide documentary proof of the animal's training. If the animal is trained by the applicant, the animal must pass ADI (Assistance Dogs International) tests for behavior in public accommodations. An ID card for dog and handler as well as large vest patch indicating that the dog is registered in the state of Michigan is issued.

This helps a good deal. The patch instantly tells restaurateurs that the dog isn't a fake. The ID persuaded my surgical veterinarian in Illinois that my dog, whose leg was bitten and broken by a much larger dog that was off leash, is a bona fide working dog that qualified for a 20 per cent discount off the medical bills.

My dog also carries a City of Evanston (Illinois) service dog tag, also voluntary and obtainable only with a medical approval. This helped when a local venue wanted to refuse entry to the dog.

These programs are entirely voluntary and don't run afoul of ADA privacy requirements. If more states and localities had them, they'd help reduce the growing incidence of service animal fraud. (There are penalties for lying on government applications.)

 

[Lonestar648]

These trained animals provide so much help (I know two vets who have PTSD dogs) that anyone who commits fraud should be penalized since they lessen the acceptability of legitimate service animals.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The more I think about it the more I think that the primary issue is not what kind of animal it is or whether it performs a service or not. Obviously it needs to be small enough to fit into an area designed for a human, but other than that the primary issue seems to be whether it's been professionally trained to behave properly while around strangers and other pets in public. So long as the animal is well trained, healthy enough that it won't become a nuisance, and can be fully controlled by the owner/handler I honestly don't care if it's a service animal or comfort animal or pet.

That being said I still think it needs traceable renewable verification at the national level. Allowing fifty different interpretations of what an acceptable animal should be and how it should be verified would be impractical and absurd. I also agree with imposing limits on how many animals can be located in a given car or on a given train. There should also be a substantial (but refundable) deposit required to cover any cleanup or medical bills for other animals or human travelers harmed by the animal in question. Accepting animals should be a revenue positive low risk service that is funded entirely by those who bring their own animals.

 

[MikefromCrete]

To follow up (and we're getting way off-topic).

Many handlers train their own service dogs and if not and it's trained by a 3rd party for some the cost is cost is definitely NOT covered.

Also, for many disabilities, the training is going to be very specific and specialized, so developing certification isn't easy.

And the reason you can't ask the handler what their disability is, is in order to protect their medical privacy.

That said, it's a friggen mess.

This is the core problem. It seems there should be some kind of certificate signed by a doctor indicating the person needs a service animal. The document wouldn't say what the disability is, but would eliminate people who try to pass off their pets as service animals. People trying such a scam should be fined if they attempt to pass off a false "service" animal.

 

[BCL]

To follow up (and we're getting way off-topic).

Many handlers train their own service dogs and if not and it's trained by a 3rd party for some the cost is cost is definitely NOT covered.

Also, for many disabilities, the training is going to be very specific and specialized, so developing certification isn't easy.

And the reason you can't ask the handler what their disability is, is in order to protect their medical privacy.

That said, it's a friggen mess.

This is the core problem. It seems there should be some kind of certificate signed by a doctor indicating the person needs a service animal. The document wouldn't say what the disability is, but would eliminate people who try to pass off their pets as service animals. People trying such a scam should be fined if they attempt to pass off a false "service" animal.

Good luck with that. There are theoretical requirements to get a medical marijuana card, which some doctors do as pretty much their only business. I've also heard of some doctors who will sign off on a disabled tag/plate for the flimsiest of reasons.

 

[Chessie]

Looks like Scooby Doo in harlequin. :giggle:

Slightly off topic, but aren't Great Danes, like all large dogs, particularly susceptible to health issues and have shorter life spans? Interesting choice using them as service dogs.

 

[me_little_me]

My suggestion is to have the ASPCA provide certification and service training facilities be required to register and be certified by them also. The government should fund it. National non-profit organization that already does animal protection work with law enforcement.

 

[Lonestar648]

I doubt anything will change short term, too sensitive. Probably need to have a major incident occur so the publicity forces some sort of knee jerk reaction by everyone involved.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Excerpted from Amtrak manual:

e) Type of Service Animals

There are many different types of service animals.

• Dogs, although the most common service animal,

are not the only animals used as service animals.

• Cats, monkeys, pot bellied pigs, miniature

guide horses and birds are also used as service

animals.

Apparently, Amtrak is more liberal that its required to be, in the definition of what type of animals can be service animals.

An excerpt from the US Dept of Justice:

Q1. What is a service animal?

A. Under the ADA, a service animal is defined as a dog that has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability. The task(s) performed by the dog must be directly related to the person's disability.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

This is the core problem. It seems there should be some kind of certificate signed by a doctor indicating the person needs a service animal. The document wouldn't say what the disability is, but would eliminate people who try to pass off their pets as service animals. People trying such a scam should be fined if they attempt to pass off a false "service" animal.

Good luck with that. There are theoretical requirements to get a medical marijuana card, which some doctors do as pretty much their only business. I've also heard of some doctors who will sign off on a disabled tag/plate for the flimsiest of reasons.

Going off topic a bit, but that is so very true. There are indeed doctors who sign off on those disabled tag and plates for the flimsiest of reasons, because there aren't stiff penalties for them doing such. And the names of these unscrupulous doctors get passed around, and therefore sort after, by those with merely a flimsiest of reason. I am sure we have all seen examples like the 25 yo guy with a disability plate on his Corvette, he has no problem getting in/out of his Corvette (I am not disabled, and I do!), and no apparent problem playing tennis.

The same abuse would quickly happen if we attempted to implement the same kind of thing for service dogs.

 

[BCL]

This is the core problem. It seems there should be some kind of certificate signed by a doctor indicating the person needs a service animal. The document wouldn't say what the disability is, but would eliminate people who try to pass off their pets as service animals. People trying such a scam should be fined if they attempt to pass off a false "service" animal.

Good luck with that. There are theoretical requirements to get a medical marijuana card, which some doctors do as pretty much their only business. I've also heard of some doctors who will sign off on a disabled tag/plate for the flimsiest of reasons.

Going off topic a bit, but that is so very true. There are indeed doctors who sign off on those disabled tag and plates for the flimsiest of reasons, because there aren't stiff penalties for them doing such. And the names of these unscrupulous doctors get passed around, and therefore sort after, by those with merely a flimsiest of reason. I am sure we have all seen examples like the 25 yo guy with a disability plate on his Corvette, he has no problem getting in/out of his Corvette (I am not disabled, and I do!), and no apparent problem playing tennis.

The same abuse would quickly happen if we attempted to implement the same kind of thing for service dogs.

Well - there's one case I personally know of. Someone I know fell off his roof working on something and fractured his shoulder bone. I'm pretty sure he was in a lot of pain, and he got a temporary disabled tag. He could drive, but it did hurt a lot to get out of the car, which he did slowly then. His doctor actually recommended he get a permanent disabled tag and signed off on it. He didn't go around doctor shopping for it and it was at an HMO where the doctor wasn't getting paid to sign off on the application. He doesn't have serious mobility problems any more, but it is somewhat of a lingering injury. I kind of question why he still needs it, but at this point renewal is automatic.

I could definitely see certain medical professionals who would sign off on someone being allowed a service animal with nothing more than a five minute consultation. It might be worth it to people who can't stand to go anywhere without a pet or who don't wish to pay to board an animal on trip.