tim49424
Engineer
Or homicidal thanks to second hand smoke.
Should Amtrak allow smoking again?
- Thread starter MIrailfan
- Start date
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Or homicidal thanks to second hand smoke.
There are no stops in the schedule of any train that are lengthened specifically to accommodate smokers. Every extended dwell stop has some other reason, such as servicing, crew change, typically heavy boarding/alighting, and/or slot timing or scheduled recovery.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
Nope. I would never support it and in my view Amtrak already caters to smokers enough as it is. If anything I'd want Amtrak staff to be more aggressive with keeping smokers away from the train since it often wafts inside.
Not endangerment, negligence, or even manslaughter, but homicide?
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tim49424
Engineer
Just the opposite. The train will not wait for smokers to get one last drag. You’re on the train when the conductor and engineer signal or you’re left behind. No ifs ands or buts about it.
No.
I rode when smoking was allowed.
Sleepers have a common HVAC system. Smoke is distributed and smoke is detectable through the whole car.
There was a period when smoking was banned except in the lounge. The lounge car was filled with smokers and the air was unbreathable and the lounge basically unusable by non-smokers.
As others have pointed out, most of the fresh air/smoking stops are long stops anyway due to operational reasons. When the train is running late those stops are shortened to the greatest extent possible already. Allowing onboard smoking would have zero impact on on time performance.
Smoking has gone from a normal, common activity to something that is now largely socially unacceptable. No need to turn the clock back.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
I remember with horror those smoke filled lounges of the Broadway Limited and the Montrealer. Too bad I was not as aware about N95 masks back then. They would have come in handy. We don't need to go back to those times. Even the Sleepers and Coaches carried a permanent stench of smoke even when no one was smoking. Yuck! And those Nicotine soaked Carpets on the walls did not help either.
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Mailliw
OBS Chief
Absolutely not; this is the most backwards idea I've heard of.
leemell
Conductor
NO! NO! NO!
Exvalley
Conductor
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2020
- Messages
- 1,379
A huge "no" from me. If Amtrak allowed smoking I would no longer ride Amtrak.
But the discussion about the smoke smell being spread throughout the train car makes me wonder about Covid-19. If you can smell someone else's exhaled smoke particulates, aren't you also exposed to their respiratory particles?
But the discussion about the smoke smell being spread throughout the train car makes me wonder about Covid-19. If you can smell someone else's exhaled smoke particulates, aren't you also exposed to their respiratory particles?
Dakota 400
Engineer
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
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- 3,741
I'll add my NO! Besides, you might catch your mask on fire if you are smoking.
We have a situation which happens from time to time when 92 (Silver Star) stops at Cary, NC, the stop before Raleigh. In fact, it happened last weekend.
Cary has a relatively short platform, which requires two stops. So the train stopped to handle the coaches. Normally this would be a quick stop. However, for a half a year now the fax machine in Hamlet has been out of commission. So the agents at Cary hand the necessary NS movement paperwork to the conductor. The conductor walks a copy of the paperwork down to the engineer and then walks back. This makes the coach stop longer than usual.
So last weekend, while making the coach stop, four or five smokers piled out onto the platform to light up. Cary is not a smoking stop. I believe Raleigh is, because it's a crew change point. Anyway, now the agent had to try to round them up and herd them back into the car. She was unsuccessful. By now the conductor had walked back from the engine and told them to get back on 'right now' or else they would get left. They got on. The train then pulled down to make its second stop.
I don't know why they think they can get off in Cary and smoke, but sometimes they do.
jb
Cary has a relatively short platform, which requires two stops. So the train stopped to handle the coaches. Normally this would be a quick stop. However, for a half a year now the fax machine in Hamlet has been out of commission. So the agents at Cary hand the necessary NS movement paperwork to the conductor. The conductor walks a copy of the paperwork down to the engineer and then walks back. This makes the coach stop longer than usual.
So last weekend, while making the coach stop, four or five smokers piled out onto the platform to light up. Cary is not a smoking stop. I believe Raleigh is, because it's a crew change point. Anyway, now the agent had to try to round them up and herd them back into the car. She was unsuccessful. By now the conductor had walked back from the engine and told them to get back on 'right now' or else they would get left. They got on. The train then pulled down to make its second stop.
I don't know why they think they can get off in Cary and smoke, but sometimes they do.
jb
NS VIA Fan
Conductor
I quit 22 years ago this month.
I'll just sit back and let this thread evolve.
I'll just sit back and let this thread evolve.
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MIrailfan
Lead Service Attendant
I'm a non smoker myself. Smoke has never bothered me, but can see how it would to people. It just seems like since its a legal product there should be concession, with respect to nonsmokers rights to breath smoke free air howevet.
Years of "smoking sections" proved that's impossible. That's why you can't smoke indoors now.
Not only No, but Hell No!!!
Qapla
Engineer
NO! Nai! Nee! Nein! Tidak! ]bù shì! Nej! NO!
It should not be allowed on the train, in the station, on the platform or even on the property!
So, the solution should not be to infringe on the rights of the non-smokers ... just make smoking tobacco illegal. Any other product that causes illness and/or death is taken off the shelves and/or market immediately - with all the illness and death tobacco causes why is it still on the market?!?
It should not be allowed on the train, in the station, on the platform or even on the property!
So, the solution should not be to infringe on the rights of the non-smokers ... just make smoking tobacco illegal. Any other product that causes illness and/or death is taken off the shelves and/or market immediately - with all the illness and death tobacco causes why is it still on the market?!?
MIrailfan
Lead Service Attendant
Tax dollars, but I digress.
Exvalley
Conductor
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2020
- Messages
- 1,379
There are many things that are legal but not appropriate to do in a train car.
Prohibition does not work. This has been proven time and time again.
Many things can kill you, so making tobacco illegal is a slippery slope. You could argue that sugary and fatty foods kill people, so maybe we should make Doritos and Snickers illegal too.
Tobacco is a choice (just like sugary and fatty foods), so this is not the same as taking a particular medication off the shelf because it is found to cause death. The warnings are printed right on the package. People who smoke (and eat Snickers) know exactly what they're getting into.
bratkinson
Conductor
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
Many have already responded with numerous reasons why not.
But I'd like to add to that:
1. Perhaps only a few on this forum remember the time when smoking was only allowed in the lounge car. Every time I walked in, I was greeted by a thick cloud of smoke. When I got back to my room, my clothing stunk so bad I had to remove it and put on a fresh change after showering to get the stench off my body as well. My biggest concern was for the lounge car attendant. He or she had to endure perhaps 35 hours or more on a CHI-LAX trip behind the counter sucking in all that 2nd hand smoke! I figured it was the equivalent of smoking 20 packs per day. Not 20 cigarettes! If I were a LSA today and assigned to a lounge car with smoking, I would quit on the spot! Would anyone in their right mind take that position???
The attempt to 'contain' the smoke in an enclosed section of each lounge car helped, but only a bit. The times I walked by and someone opened the door, I got blasted. The smoke was so thick in there I'm surprised anybody even went in!
2. Even after only 1 or 2 cigarettes are smoked in a room in someones' house, the room continues to stink for DAYS afterward!! When I was a hotel night auditor in 2003 or so, we had smoking and non-smoking rooms and I always asked the guests upon checking in which they preferred. A couple of times I had guests that I checked into non-smoking rooms return and tell me the room stunk to high heaven of cigarette smoke from the previous nights' guest(s). When that happened, I had to give them a different room, then 'block off' that room in the computer with orders to sanitize it the next day. That entailed washing all bedding, linen, and even the drapes, and wiping down the walls and all furniture with some deodorizing chemicals. At the Radisson, we always strove to maintain high levels of customer satisfaction and cleanliness.
Consider a roomette that someone smoked a couple cigarettes in...there have been perhaps as many as a dozen or more roomettes I walked into in the past 20 years that stunk of cigarette smoke. Whether that was from someone smoking in the roomettes or simply with very stinky smoke-smell clothing, I don't know.
And, for what it's worth, I used to smoke 4 packs per day until I quit September 19, 1985. I haven't touched one since! And as a smoker, I never had a clue that I smelled so badly due to the smoke. I smoked up a storm in a lot of roomettes before that time! A couple months after I quit, I could smell the smoke on other peoples' clothing as they passed by or I was talking with them. Nowadays, I can smell them from 10-15 feet away!
Many have already responded with numerous reasons why not.
But I'd like to add to that:
1. Perhaps only a few on this forum remember the time when smoking was only allowed in the lounge car. Every time I walked in, I was greeted by a thick cloud of smoke. When I got back to my room, my clothing stunk so bad I had to remove it and put on a fresh change after showering to get the stench off my body as well. My biggest concern was for the lounge car attendant. He or she had to endure perhaps 35 hours or more on a CHI-LAX trip behind the counter sucking in all that 2nd hand smoke! I figured it was the equivalent of smoking 20 packs per day. Not 20 cigarettes! If I were a LSA today and assigned to a lounge car with smoking, I would quit on the spot! Would anyone in their right mind take that position???
The attempt to 'contain' the smoke in an enclosed section of each lounge car helped, but only a bit. The times I walked by and someone opened the door, I got blasted. The smoke was so thick in there I'm surprised anybody even went in!
2. Even after only 1 or 2 cigarettes are smoked in a room in someones' house, the room continues to stink for DAYS afterward!! When I was a hotel night auditor in 2003 or so, we had smoking and non-smoking rooms and I always asked the guests upon checking in which they preferred. A couple of times I had guests that I checked into non-smoking rooms return and tell me the room stunk to high heaven of cigarette smoke from the previous nights' guest(s). When that happened, I had to give them a different room, then 'block off' that room in the computer with orders to sanitize it the next day. That entailed washing all bedding, linen, and even the drapes, and wiping down the walls and all furniture with some deodorizing chemicals. At the Radisson, we always strove to maintain high levels of customer satisfaction and cleanliness.
Consider a roomette that someone smoked a couple cigarettes in...there have been perhaps as many as a dozen or more roomettes I walked into in the past 20 years that stunk of cigarette smoke. Whether that was from someone smoking in the roomettes or simply with very stinky smoke-smell clothing, I don't know.
And, for what it's worth, I used to smoke 4 packs per day until I quit September 19, 1985. I haven't touched one since! And as a smoker, I never had a clue that I smelled so badly due to the smoke. I smoked up a storm in a lot of roomettes before that time! A couple months after I quit, I could smell the smoke on other peoples' clothing as they passed by or I was talking with them. Nowadays, I can smell them from 10-15 feet away!
Qapla
Engineer
Eating candy bars has less of an impact on others around the person eating them while smoking (and chewing) impacts everyone in the vicinity.
The aroma of someone in the train car drinking coffee or eating chocolate may not be pleasing to everyone on board but the smell does not carry carcinogenic compounds to those who can smell it like smoking does ... side-stream smoke is lethal just like the primary smoke is to those who choose to smoke.
The aroma of someone in the train car drinking coffee or eating chocolate may not be pleasing to everyone on board but the smell does not carry carcinogenic compounds to those who can smell it like smoking does ... side-stream smoke is lethal just like the primary smoke is to those who choose to smoke.
I haven't heard of too many people dying of the second-hand fumes of Doritos and Snickers. Not sure the same could be said of burning tobacco...
You guys are missing the point and making the wrong comparison.
It is illegal to smoke indoors for the very reasons you both mentioned.
It does not make sense to make smoking itself illegal when smoking in the privacy of your home or car does not affect other people. That is where the line is drawn (and should be drawn).
It's like alcohol - it's fine as long as you don't drive and put others in danger.
It is illegal to smoke indoors for the very reasons you both mentioned.
It does not make sense to make smoking itself illegal when smoking in the privacy of your home or car does not affect other people. That is where the line is drawn (and should be drawn).
It's like alcohol - it's fine as long as you don't drive and put others in danger.
Qapla
Engineer
In all fairness, it is possible for someone to get sick from the smell of someone eating Snickers® since they contain peanuts
Not really, they took lead out of bullets because it rubbed off on the hands of hunters while loading their guns. This is a private thing and does not impact others - but was still done.
Not really, they took lead out of bullets because it rubbed off on the hands of hunters while loading their guns. This is a private thing and does not impact others - but was still done.
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