Should Amtrak be privatized?

[Qapla]

Seems all the news outlets are reporting this


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...us-privatize-postal-service-amtrak-rcna194960

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/elon-musk-says-post-office-amtrak-should-be-privatized-2025-03-05/

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-doge-post-office-amtrak-privatized-2025-3

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Yeah I saw that, but it’s Elon, and he is a unelected bureaucrat/billionaire so no power to do anything.

That said, there are multiple problems that would need to be addressed. So it’s unlikely to go anywhere.

The privately own track would be an issues for the LD fleet. The high Capex need for the NEC would be another.

Peter Pan Bus did try to buy the NEC before…

 

[Tlcooper44]

Ok. Let’s privatize the interstates, airports, ports and waterways as well.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

I wish people understood why Amtrak was created in the first place, before throwing the word private around Amtrak's direction. With the way things are going, we have a better chance of having Amtrak run between New Orleans and Florida, before anyone has the chance to privatize Amtrak. Stay tuned for that one lol.

 

[Cal]

Well I knew it had to happen eventually...

 

[acelafan]

As my friend who works for them exclaimed, "Amtrak is already private!"

 

[BlackDiamond]

Hmmm. Our train service stinks compared to China. But China is a totally nationalized system run by the government lock stock and barrel. So we should privatize Amtrak. Not sure if I see the logic here.

As the articles say, Congress would have to take this action and I don't think there would be enough support to do this.

Part of the issue here (and especially with the USPS) is if you want to have a service that covers most or all of the country, you are going to lose money unless you stop serving everyone and just cherry pick the more profitable services. For Amtrak that would basically be the NEC and Auto Train.

 

[Traveller]

It was tried in the UK and the result is 'Patchy' at best. Often inferior to pre privatisation and fare costs are so high.
To be honest there are maybe one or two reasonably run companies, but fares that put people off using rail unless you can find a special deal.

 

[JWM]

You can bet that over fifty years ago if there was a way to make it profitable, there would have been no Amtrak. Rail passenger service is a public service not a profit machine anywhere in the world.

 

[ScotiaBound]

The degradation of the "Amtrak Experience" began with Anderson and continues under Flynn, a former Delta Air Cargo CEO. That is pertinent because it shows a lack of focus on and vision for a lucrative target market.
Yes, NEC and Auto Train are point A to point B travelers, and like airlines, treated as freight. LD travelers, on the other hand, are largely in it for the experience. The much-maligned Boomer generation now has the time to indulge in such an experience, but given the lack of focus on that aspect are not courted as they should be. It's not only the Boomers, but younger generations as well, as evidenced by all of the YouTubers, that can be reached.
Adopting a cruise ship instead of a freight mentality would be beneficial.
Once upon a time, on Amtrak, the sleeping car attendant would settle you in, ask what time you would like to be awakened, would you prefer tea or coffee and what juice you would care for. They would awaken you in the morning with those and a newspaper from the previous station.
Then there are the operations themselves. I've been tracking the Floridian for the past few weeks preparatory to a trip in late Spring. More times than not it is late departing Chicago due to "late arrival of equipment", "late servicing of equipment". Chicago has sidings full of Amtrak rolling stock.
Amtrak needs a Dagny Taggart type CEO.

 

[JWM]

The degradation of the "Amtrak Experience" began with Anderson and continues under Flynn, a former Delta Air Cargo CEO. That is pertinent because it shows a lack of focus on and vision for a lucrative target market.
Yes, NEC and Auto Train are point A to point B travelers, and like airlines, treated as freight. LD travelers, on the other hand, are largely in it for the experience. The much-maligned Boomer generation now has the time to indulge in such an experience, but given the lack of focus on that aspect are not courted as they should be. It's not only the Boomers, but younger generations as well, as evidenced by all of the YouTubers, that can be reached.
Adopting a cruise ship instead of a freight mentality would be beneficial.
Once upon a time, on Amtrak, the sleeping car attendant would settle you in, ask what time you would like to be awakened, would you prefer tea or coffee and what juice you would care for. They would awaken you in the morning with those and a newspaper from the previous station.
Then there are the operations themselves. I've been tracking the Floridian for the past few weeks preparatory to a trip in late Spring. More times than not it is late departing Chicago due to "late arrival of equipment", "late servicing of equipment". Chicago has sidings full of Amtrak rolling stock.
Amtrak needs a Dagny Taggart type CEO.

Overnight service in Europe is booming because it is reliable, comfortable and not overpriced. We have markets that would work if the service was the same as my description in the last sentence. Boston-D.C. is one, NYC/DC-Atlanta is another and there are more.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

I believe Amtrak already is a private corporation.

 

[JWM]

I believe Amtrak already is a private corporation.

It is a federally chartered corporation that operates as a for profit entity, but the Federal Government is the only shareholder. https://www.amtrak.com/stakeholder-faqs

 

[MARC Rider]

Ok. Let’s privatize the interstates, airports, ports and waterways as well.

Yeah, and let's privatize the US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps, too. Mercenary soldiers worked so well during the Thirty Years War....

As far as Amtrak, who would want to buy it? It doesn't make any money, and I can't see how it can. The best that could be done is to make it above-the-rails financially sustainable so it doesn't need a direct operating subsidy.

If anything, the private railroads should be partially nationalized, with the infrastructure being owned by the public for the benefit of the public and open access for well-regulated private operators.

I don't know why people think that private companies can run things better than the government. Look at the Penn Central. Look at Chrysler.

 

[MARC Rider]

Yes, NEC and Auto Train are point A to point B travelers, and like airlines, treated as freight. LD travelers, on the other hand, are largely in it for the experience.

There is really no good argument for the taxpayers to subsidize an "experience." The justification for running long distance trains is to provide needed transportation service to rural areas and for people who can't fly or drive. Those wishing the "experience" can ride some of the many "private varnish" operators, although when you look at their prices, you won't complain anymore about the price of Amtrak sleeping cars.

And as a regular rider of the NEC and a one-time rider of the Auto Train, I wouldn't say the passengers are treated like freight. In fact, the NEC is a major part of the overall transportation mix in the northeast, and the Acela and Northeast Regional are my preferred mode of transport if I'm traveling between Washington and Boston. However, even the NEC isn't "profitable" enough to interest private investors of the sort who would actually invest their own money in the enterprise and expect a decent rate of return.

 

[Rasputin]

I think the question is not whether Amtrak can be privatized but rather what they will attempt to do to Amtrak funding once they realize that it cannot be privatized.

 

[Barb Stout]

As my friend who works for them exclaimed, "Amtrak is already private!"

What exactly does s/he mean by that? That it's a corporation? But isn't it a "public" corporation?

 

[allanorn]

What exactly does s/he mean by that? That it's a corporation? But isn't it a "public" corporation?

It is a corporation where 100% of the shares are owned by the government, e.g. Uncle Sam. It's not a true corporation as they are granted special powers and protections by Congress.

USPS and Freddie Mae are set up the same way.

 

[MARC Rider]

I think the question is not whether Amtrak can be privatized but rather what they will attempt to do to Amtrak funding once they realize that it cannot be privatized.

Yeah, I would be concerned about them selling the assets to some crony at a fire-sale price, then allegedly subsiding operations, but having a lot of that subsidy find its way into the personal pockets of the crony, with a result that the service is even worse than it is now.

 

[OmahaRoad]

Yeah, I would be concerned about them selling the assets to some crony at a fire-sale price, then allegedly subsiding operations, but having a lot of that subsidy find its way into the personal pockets of the crony, with a result that the service is even worse than it is now.

To your comment and Rasputin's above: I think one thing could happen in this scenario is that they'd sell everything at a fire-sale price, but have an under-the-table understanding (and don't think this can't happen--they are trying to abolish the entire Department of Education without Congress!) that the private entity will soon declare:

"Our best analysts examined Amtrak's network and realized how inefficient and unimportant almost all of it is compared to our wonderful airlines and buses. Look at these XYZ crazy-high 'subsidy' numbers for XYZ route! This has to end. American Rails, Inc. will cease operation of all inefficient former Amtrak routes as of 9/1/2025. Americans can use our great Interstate Highways to travel when they want with freedom, or our wonderful Airports. The few profitable Amtrak routes, or routes that can be made profitable through lean, private operation, will be retained, while some routes will be transferred to Flixbus or other private operators. All other routes will end, saving American taxpayers untold billions of dollars! Recogizing the Great American History of Westward Expansion and our beautiful Rocky Mountains, the Empire Builder will be transformed into a state-of-the-art Luxury Rail Route. American Rails, Inc. looks forward to ushering in a winning future for American Travelers!"

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

Yeah, and let's privatize the US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps, too. Mercenary soldiers worked so well during the Thirty Years War....

As far as Amtrak, who would want to buy it? It doesn't make any money, and I can't see how it can. The best that could be done is to make it above-the-rails financially sustainable so it doesn't need a direct operating subsidy.

If anything, the private railroads should be partially nationalized, with the infrastructure being owned by the public for the benefit of the public and open access for well-regulated private operators.

I don't know why people thing that private companies can run things better than the government. Look at the Penn Central. Look at Chrysler.

The government runs better than private companies?

 

[MARC Rider]

The government runs better than private companies?

Actually, yes, on the basis of the performance of a large number of private companies I do business with.

 

[pennyk]

MODERATOR NOTE: Please avoid purely political comments and try to limit your comments to the topic of privatizing Amtrak. Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.

 

[AFriendly]

I agree with other posters who have pointed out that Amtrak is already, by and large, a private entity with a few extra legal and financial carve-outs. That being said, who in their right mind would want to operate a business whose key operating partners (class 1 railroads) are openly hostile to it? Even if (and this is a very generous assumption) financial support for capital expenditures continues in some form. Neither the NEC nor the Auto Train are sustainable from a modern business perspective. The NEC has largely remained a federal subsidy for northeastern commuter rail agencies since day 1; the Auto Train was a startup that threw in the towel. The purpose of Amtrak's national network is not to provide anyone an experience. Its to keep the right of way and the infrastructure in place for future rail corridors. If you're curious about what becomes necessary if we don't do that, take a look at California High Speed Rail. That's what it costs in time and funds to build something from the ground up.