Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2012-1Q 2024)

[jonathanhillb`]

Interesting. I did not know that! On my last two Acela trips (November), I had backwards-facing seats both times. I guess I was unlucky. The return trip was a bulkhead seat (Car 5, Seat 17F - #2250 - STM->BOS) with a table and the opposite seat faced forward, of course. I don't remember whether there was a table on the previous trip (Car 3, Seat 6A - #2167 - BOS->STM), but it definitely faced backwards. Maybe on its previous trip, 2167 was late and they didn't have time to turn all the seats?

Why would they rotate a seat in a bay of four? They are meant to be facing the table. Direction of travel is indicate on the seat map where you could've changed to a forward facing seat.

 

[John Santos]

Why would they rotate a seat in a bay of four? They are meant to be facing the table. Direction of travel is indicate on the seat map where you could've changed to a forward facing seat.

Of course they wouldn't rotate a seat in a bay of four! That's why I wrote "of course" in my comment."

What seat map? I thought you had to call Amtrak to determine the seat direction and to change seats if you didn't like the one you were assigned.

 

[jonathanhillb`]

Of course they wouldn't rotate a seat in a bay of four! That's why I wrote "of course" in my comment."

What seat map? I thought you had to call Amtrak to determine the seat direction and to change seats if you didn't like the one you were assigned.

You can change seats online or in the app under 'manage my reservation.' It has been like that since they started requiring seat assignments.

 

[PigeonPost]

For some arcane/inane bureaucratic reason, the California Charger locomotives' paint scheme doesn't match up to the CA Venture colors, even though both were built by Siemens:

That navy swoosh at the rear of the unit is neither the right height nor width to line up with the car's windows, and the multicolored slashes along the bottom of the cars don't line up to anything on the loco either.

This seems lame enough, but yesterday I saw the Venture cab cars sitting outside the ACE/SJRRC maintenance facility in Stockton:

Conceptually the Venture cabs have a Charger nose bolted onto a Venture coach, but could they not blend the colors of the cab into the lines of the rest of the coach so it isn't such a Frankenstein's monster? I get that's it's only cosmetic, but it's pretty sloppy for brand-new equipment to look like a patchwork, reinforcing the idea that the right hand of CA rail doesn't know what the left hand is doing. (Never mind that the decision to go with vending machines on the Venture trains rather than a café car seems to have been irrevocably determined long ago by a JPA that thinks it knows better than passengers, transit advocates, and anyone else.)

(For those interested, the ACE former-Bombardier Bilevel Cars next to the Venture cabs in the photo have their own new cabs, with the sloped front first used on Toronto's GO trains. Of course, the blue and red-purple ACE livery of these new cars don't match the light- and dark-purple logo ACE has used since 2013, but at least the color bands match up with ACE's Chargers.)

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

(Never mind that the decision to go with vending machines on the Venture trains rather than a café car seems to have been irrevocably determined long ago by a JPA that thinks it knows better than passengers, transit advocates, and anyone else.)

I'd be happy with vending machines if the food is good and has more variety. California tends to do food well (better than New York!). I've seen videos of vending machines on the discount high speed trains in Spain. I'd take that trade-off for high speed.

But I know hot food is important to many. As for coffee etc. the machines at gas stations have improved a lot. Some grind the beans for each pour. A long way from when I used to clean the dessert machines at the Dutch Pantry. They used a mix of syrups and bags of milk if I recall, maybe some powdered ingredients.

U.S. companies like to reduce staff, I don't know about Europe. It's become a safety issue on Amtrak. It's probably easier to add Amtrak Police than conductors. The cafe workers are on their own contract. Even when the train is delayed and the crew times out, the cafe worker stays on the train. From at least one experience, it seems it's the cafe worker who notices when a passenger is losing it. Amtrak Police did a good job trying to assess that passenger later on the platform, with some consultation from the cafe attendant.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

For some arcane/inane bureaucratic reason, the California Charger locomotives' paint scheme doesn't match up to the CA Venture colors, even though both were built by Siemens:

Paint is not a high priority issue, but yes it’s a detail thing. Not having a matching design and you will start to wonder what else is wrong.

That said the locomotive picture is a Caltrans locomotive with air flow adjuster for bilevel equipment. The coaches are marked for Amtrak services. So maybe that why it doesn’t match. Not the intention equipment? Ok that probably a stretch, or a general design for several different types of equipment?

 

[mfastx]

Honestly, it's annoying but it's close enough at least. Get ready for the next 10 years of mismatched consists with random Phase VIIIs nationwide.

 

[ST Saint]

The design doesn't match because the original order was planned to be bi-level, then the design on the coaches changed from the initial renderings. Why, I don't know, but the locomotive graphics were already made. It's essentially the same situation as the Midwest Changers vs. their Ventures, but at least those are closer.

I do agree they should have at least mirrored the crescent shape from the locomotives to tie together the cabs and overall look some more, but here we are.

As for café cars, according to the official Facebook account (and another project manager in a Facebook group for what that is worth), they do plan to switch to full (or at least more of what we'd expect) café cars in the future.

See screenshot below:



And this was the original rendering scheme for the California cars which would have aligned:

Similarly the Midwest: the coaches are actually nearly the same, but the lines are higher up up the locomotives:

 

[PigeonPost]

As for café cars, according to the official Facebook account (and another project manager in a Facebook group for what that is worth), they do plan to switch to full (or at least more of what we'd expect) café cars in the future.

That's good to hear, though to be honest, I'm not convinced the vending machines will actually materialize. There isn't exactly a ready pool of contractors with expertise maintaining and stocking vending machines used on a moving train.

 

[av84]

That's good to hear, though to be honest, I'm not convinced the vending machines will actually materialize. There isn't exactly a ready pool of contractors with expertise maintaining and stocking vending machines used on a moving train.

There is a contract signed for vending machines, the vendor is Crane. By reading through the SJJPA agendas you can see that it was not easy for them to find this vendor. If I recall correctly, it took three RFPs. The first one had no responses, and the second one had no acceptable responses. Then finally they got Crane on the third round.

Reading between the lines, I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered their expectations with each successive RFP. This leads me to believe the vending selection will not impress.

 

[cirdan]

The design doesn't match because the original order was planned to be bi-level, then the design on the coaches changed from the initial renderings. Why, I don't know, but the locomotive graphics were already made. It's essentially the same situation as the Midwest Changers vs. their Ventures, but at least those are closer.

I do agree they should have at least mirrored the crescent shape from the locomotives to tie together the cabs and overall look some more, but here we are.

As for café cars, according to the official Facebook account (and another project manager in a Facebook group for what that is worth), they do plan to switch to full (or at least more of what we'd expect) café cars in the future.

See screenshot below:

View attachment 36135

And this was the original rendering scheme for the California cars which would have aligned:
View attachment 36136
Similarly the Midwest: the coaches are actually nearly the same, but the lines are higher up up the locomotives:
View attachment 36137

I'm assuming these are vinyls and not paint jobs.

Vinyls don't tend to last as long as paint jobs. So maybe that opportunity can be taken to reconsider the design at the next refresh.

Those renderings look awesome by the way. Especially the Midwest version.

 

[GDRRiley]

I'm assuming these are vinyls and not paint jobs.

These are paint
We will see how the F59phi get painted post rebuild

As for café cars, according to the official Facebook account (and another project manager in a Facebook group for what that is worth), they do plan to switch to full (or at least more of what we'd expect) café cars in the future.

See screenshot below:

I'm doubtful of that cafes would be 5+ years away and for the cost we could likely get 1-2 more sets of equipment which is far more important. Really we need 4-5 more to hold the state over on rolling stock until Caltrans and Calsta grow a brain and we can move to EMUs

 

[randomguy65]

Some interesting information received from a Cafe attendant on a San Joaquins train.

1. The current proposal of adding high-level platforms at most or all stations was shot down by BNSF
2. The doors don't work properly. They've been having problems with the automatic doors to where the "open all" function just doesn't work entirely. Doors have to be opened manually.
3. The JPA that manages the Capital Corridor (forgot their name) is looking to boost Cafe setvice to pre-pandemic levels, while the SJJPA is floundering with their vending machine idea

Grain of salt, and all that. Said attendant also stated that SJJPA still hasn't found a partner for the vending machines (which has since been proven untrue).

The other thing emphasized was to loudly and persistently complain to social media regarding the lack of Cafe service.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

U.S. companies like to reduce staff, I don't know about Europe.

Labor is equally expensive in Europe - lots less staffing, especially in higher income countries (i.e. Nordic trains already had essentially fast food over dining cars in the 80's on some routes).

I think those contrasting endcaps are very trendy right now in International livery design - have seen it in Europe.

 

[GDRRiley]

1. The current proposal of adding high-level platforms at most or all stations was shot down by BNSF

We can't even get 24in platforms, yeah they are going to oppose 48in

3. The JPA that manages the Capital Corridor (forgot their name) is looking to boost Cafe setvice to pre-pandemic levels, while the SJJPA is floundering with their vending machine idea

Grain of salt, and all that. Said attendant also stated that SJJPA still hasn't found a partner for the vending machines (which has since been proven untrue).

The other thing emphasized was to loudly and persistently complain to social media regarding the lack of Cafe service.

CCJPA. They are increasing prices because they haven't in years. Vending machines make sense given how poorly cafes have done in the valley

 

[jis]

To continue the discussion of the Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture, please post your comments in the "current" thread on that topic:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...gineering-testing-and-delivery-2q-2024.87161/

Thank you for your cooperation and participation