Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2024-2025)

[ryanwc]

MDoT reported at the Michigan ARP meeting that 9 of 17 Venture cafe cars are in service along with all 80 other cars.

What do the Venture cars cost anyway?

 

[GDRRiley]

What do the Venture cars cost anyway?

Initial contract was 2.7M each in Nov 2017 (371M for 137 cars) by Aug 2019 that was 2.8M (25.2M 9 cars). We haven't seen a recent order but I'd expect 3.5-4M each at this point given inflation.

 

[desertflyer]

I got to experience the new Snack Station on the San Joaquins Venture Cars last week. I had made a sandwich for the trip and forgot it at home in San Francisco. Needless to say I was absolutely starving by the time I made it to LA Union Station.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

For what it's worth, I saw San Joaquins Venture Cafe cars 9801 and 9802 on 710 at Emeryville on the 2nd. Not sure how much information is online about these cars, so I thought I'd mention it here.

 

[toddinde]

I know they’ll be a welcome and needed addition. Is the automat concept dead now, hopefully?

 

[GDRRiley]

I know they’ll be a welcome and needed addition. Is the automat concept dead now, hopefully?

No they are still going with that
And given they are looking at the Stadler flirts in short 4 car sets not sure how they'd do anything other than a vending setup without destroying capacity or increasing costs with 2 staffed cafes given trains will need to run in pairs.

 

[toddinde]

No they are still going with that
And given they are looking at the Stadler flirts in short 4 car sets not sure how they'd do anything other than a vending setup without destroying capacity or increasing costs with 2 staffed cafes given trains will need to run in pairs.

In Europe, stations are more robust and there are newsstands and cafe counters in most stations. I suppose that’s what it will be like. People will grab food and drinks in the station. Maybe news butchers will reappear. Then, somebody will have the bright idea that they could actually sell the stuff on the train, and cafe will be born again.

 

[thefirewarde]

In Europe, stations are more robust and there are newsstands and cafe counters in most stations.

If you stuck a convenience/corner store in/at most stations you might get non-transit customers, or people transferring between bus lines if it's a "mobility hub". I can see the argument but it'd be very site specific what setup makes sense where.

 

[Amtrak25]

I don't see Amtrak stations with 1 -3 trains a day supporting any business. That's why God invented vending machine (but they don't belong on trains).

 

[thefirewarde]

I don't see Amtrak stations with 1 -3 trains a day supporting any business.

Exactly. It has to be a location that has enough non-Amtrak traffic that six daily arrivals aren't carrying the whole load. If you have some foot traffic, a couple bike lanes, and several local bus lines also using the station (and maybe some community event space) then that's starting to be viable. Maybe some fast chargers in the parking lot as well as on the track.

 

[Amtrak25]

Exactly. It has to be a location that has enough non-Amtrak traffic that six daily arrivals aren't carrying the whole load. If you have some foot traffic, a couple bike lanes, and several local bus lines also using the station (and maybe some community event space) then that's starting to be viable. Maybe some fast chargers in the parking lot as well as on the track.

Even LIRR's Grand Central Madison depot has been slow in attracting businesses including restaurants. There are simply not enough people, especially weekends. It's a commuter barn.

 

[Harmon Shay]

For what it's worth, I saw San Joaquins Venture Cafe cars 9801 and 9802 on 710 at Emeryville on the 2nd. Not sure how much information is online about these cars, so I thought I'd mention it here.

I'd like to know if 9801 and 9802 are cafe cars similar to the old SP automat cars with one car per train, or two coaches per train with small numbers of vending machines at one end. I've read that documents from the board that runs the service suggest 14 coaches but this report suggests 7 cafe cars with a combination of tables and coach seats or just tables. Hate to be a pest about this but it's been hard to get a straight answer and I'm curious. Seems to be the whole San Joaquin Venture thing is mysterious.

 

[Agent]

There's a special move of four new cafe cars crossing southern Iowa today heading eastward, presumably to Chicago. I caught this train east of Ottumwa this afternoon. The cars are (IDTX reporting marks?) 4314, 4317, 4314, and 4310.

 

[PaTrainFan]

How are these cars behaving of late? I haven't noticed much commentary in awhile. Are the bugs successfully being worked out? I haven't had the opportunity to ride the Amtrak version but will next month in Canada I be able to sample VIA's.

 

[MARC Rider]

Exactly. It has to be a location that has enough non-Amtrak traffic that six daily arrivals aren't carrying the whole load. If you have some foot traffic, a couple bike lanes, and several local bus lines also using the station (and maybe some community event space) then that's starting to be viable. Maybe some fast chargers in the parking lot as well as on the track.

The Princeton, NJ station (NOT Princeton Jct) Actually has a Wawa in the station building. I would think that most of the stops on a corridor train are at towns large enough to support a convenience store of that type at or near the station, which would provide food equal to or better than what's served in the cafe car. Most of the customers may not be taking the train, but the store would be there for the train riders, too.

 

[Septa9739]

Does anyone know why Amtrak didn’t just stick these on a Zephyr like they do for the ALC-42’s

 

[PVD]

Amtrak didn't buy them, nor do they own them. It is not up to them.

 

[turtlypo]

How are these cars behaving of late? I haven't noticed much commentary in awhile. Are the bugs successfully being worked out? I haven't had the opportunity to ride the Amtrak version but will next month in Canada I be able to sample VIA's.

Took Wolverine 350 and 355 betwen NLS and DET on February 15. Weather was hovering in the 20s throughout the day, moderate snow. Midway through 350 all bathrooms except for the Venture business class and Horizon car broke down. I'm not a huge fan of the Venture's bathroom electronic open/close buttons serving as the only door lock anyways. It feels so vulnerable while I'm on the toilet!

Pretty sure 355 on the way back was the same trainset as 350. We were delayed for over 4 hours, partly due to a car accident at grade crossing, partly due to our Charger getting stuck departing Albion, MI and needing a relief locomotive to rescue us. I believe a conductor said wheels were stuck on the track. All I remember was falling in and out of sleep feeling the train shuddering forwards and backwards to get unstuck.

Teething issues with the Charger felt like a bigger deal than the Venture bathrooms going out of order. My guess is the bathroom issues are likely also cold weather related. Maybe water lines freezing?

 

[JWM]

Took Wolverine 350 and 355 betwen NLS and DET on February 15. Weather was hovering in the 20s throughout the day, moderate snow. Midway through 350 all bathrooms except for the Venture business class and Horizon car broke down. I'm not a huge fan of the Venture's bathroom electronic open/close buttons serving as the only door lock anyways. It feels so vulnerable while I'm on the toilet!

Pretty sure 355 on the way back was the same trainset as 350. We were delayed for over 4 hours, partly due to a car accident at grade crossing, partly due to our Charger getting stuck departing Albion, MI and needing a relief locomotive to rescue us. I believe a conductor said wheels were stuck on the track. All I remember was falling in and out of sleep feeling the train shuddering forwards and backwards to get unstuck.

Teething issues with the Charger felt like a bigger deal than the Venture bathrooms going out of order. My guess is the bathroom issues are likely also cold weather related. Maybe water lines freezing?

Via Rail is having issues with their Venture sets with windshields cracking on the locomotives due to extreme cold. It apparently is an involved process to replace them. In addition, CN has imposed speed restrictions in the Quebec-Windsor corridor like they have on Amtrak's Chicago Carbondale service with Ventures. Amtrak is using Superliners instead. In addition, some of the Venture sets are being held at the Montreal Maintenance Center due to the machine that "trues" the wheels being down. It is a mess. You can check which equipment will be on your train by by train number and date on the link following. https://traincar.info/

 

[Goldspike_Railfanning]

Amtrak didn't buy them, nor do they own them. It is not up to them.

I’m not sure if that matters. Metrolink cars have deadheaded on Amtrak trains. I’m pretty sure the Midwest Chargers even ran or were at least hooked on to a long distance train.

 

[railiner]

I’m not sure if that matters. Metrolink cars have deadheaded on Amtrak trains. I’m pretty sure the Midwest Chargers even ran or were at least hooked on to a long distance train.

Is it possible that Amtrak earns some revenue for carrying these deadheading cars on its trains?

Or perhaps it’s in any contract Amtrak may have with the owners of those cars, that Amtrak would do so?

 

[PVD]

I'm sure there are times where it makes sense for Amtrak to haul them, my point was merely that the choice might not be theirs to make. If Amtrak owned then, I could certainly see why they wouldn't want to pay someone else to move them. Anyone else, they are paying someone.

 

[Cal]

I’m not sure if that matters. Metrolink cars have deadheaded on Amtrak trains. I’m pretty sure the Midwest Chargers even ran or were at least hooked on to a long distance train.

A deadhead and a delivery are also different matters.