Silver Star: Will it keep the Diner?

[MARC Rider]

the sense I got is that they want to get to a model where they pre-sell meal packages rather than accept random walk ins. This may have to do partly with a desire for doing better inventory management. At least then they won;t have any excuse for running out of stuff.

This is actually a big improvement. The last time I traveled coach, I waited around for the LSA to come and make dinner reservations, and finally gave up waiting and went to the cafe car for a drink. While in line, I heard the announcement that there were no more dinner reservations, so I got a pizza for dinner along with my drink. Another person in my coach got really mad. So mad that he had some words with the conductor that resulted in the train stopping in the middle of nowhere and he man and his family being released to the custody of the local law enforcement. Pre-selling meal packages to coach passengers would ensure that coach passengers can get a dinner reservation in the dining car.

 

[TheVig]

I like the idea of pre selling meals. Like others have said, helps minimize running out of something. Whether it’s flex or somewhat chef made, pre selling would be good for the bean counters.

 

[MARC Rider]

Whether it’s flex or somewhat chef made

Some people don't seem to realize is that even before the advent of flex dining, nearly all the Amtrak dining car meals were precooked. I think the only exceptions were the steak and maybe the omelet.

The difference between flex dining and the "traditional" dining was 1) the precooked flex meals appear to have smaller portions, and 2) the meals are served in the same vessels in which they were heated. Also, plastic cutlery is served, and in many trains, you line up at the counter to get your food if you're not getting room service instead of being served at a table by waitstaff. (Although when I rode the Cardinal in November 2019, the LSA served me at my table as if I was having traditional dining service.) Oh, and while the flex meals are perfectly edible and not total culinary junk, their quality is below that of the precooked meals that were served in "traditional" dining.

 

[Cal]

The pre-cooked meals from traditional dining weren't bad and were more diner quality vs the straight TV dinners of flex dining!

 

[user 14106]

And I really hope traditional dining is not like that of the AT, but basically the same or very similar to what we had prior to COVID...

It's not all that different - there's a steak option, a chicken option, a pork option, a fish option, and a pasta option and two kids meal choices and a few of the meals as described are nearly identical to some of the options on the pre covid western menu. But they are set options and you don't have a la carte side stuff. Obviously they can't just implement that directly on western trains because auto train doesn't serve a full breakfast or lunch but the model for dinner seems to work well in the present COVID situation. And at least right now the food is pretty good. I'd rather see them have 5 good dinner meal choices that are well stocked than 7 or 8 and constantly running out of stuff. I guess the biggest issue with the auto train menu is only one option for non meat eaters (the manicotti) the western pre covid menu also had a Cubano bowl that was vegan approved.

The steak meal I had the other day on AT was the best tasting meal I've had on Amtrak in the few years I've been riding. I thought it was better than the signature steaks I had on the Crescent and Meteor pre-flex and better than AT meals I've had on previous trips.

 

[Cal]

It's not all that different - there's a steak option, a chicken option, a pork option, a fish option, and a pasta option and two kids meal choices and a few of the meals as described are nearly identical to some of the options on the pre covid western menu. But they are set options and you don't have a la carte side stuff. Obviously they can't just implement that directly on western trains because auto train doesn't serve a full breakfast or lunch but the model for dinner seems to work well in the present COVID situation. And at least right now the food is pretty good. I'd rather see them have 5 good dinner meal choices that are well stocked than 7 or 8 and constantly running out of stuff. I guess the biggest issue with the auto train menu is only one option for non meat eaters (the manicotti) the western pre covid menu also had a Cubano bowl that was vegan approved.

The steak meal I had the other day on AT was the best tasting meal I've had on Amtrak in the few years I've been riding. I thought it was better than the signature steaks I had on the Crescent and Meteor pre-flex and better than AT meals I've had on previous trips.

Honestly, you're right. I just want some good food!

 

[Oreius]

While in line, I heard the announcement that there were no more dinner reservations, so I got a pizza for dinner along with my drink. Another person in my coach got really mad. So mad that he had some words with the conductor that resulted in the train stopping in the middle of nowhere and he man and his family being released to the custody of the local law enforcement.

Unfortunately, riding in Coach does not guarantee you’ll be able to snag a dinner reservation. Depends on how full the train is. Sleepers get their meals included—everyone else is first-come first-serve. I’m assuming this incident took place pre-COVID, but even then some people just don’t have respect or common sense. It’s not the Conductor’s fault. He/she is there to ensure safe operation of the train. They have every right to boot you off the train if you are causing a disturbance and are a threat to everyone else.

 

[MARC Rider]

Unfortunately, riding in Coach does not guarantee you’ll be able to snag a dinner reservation. Depends on how full the train is. Sleepers get their meals included—everyone else is first-come first-serve. I’m assuming this incident took place pre-COVID, but even then some people just don’t have respect or common sense. It’s not the Conductor’s fault. He/she is there to ensure safe operation of the train. They have every right to boot you off the train if you are causing a disturbance and are a threat to everyone else.

Of course, this incident was pre-covid. I agree that the conductors should be able to boot people off the train if they're causing a disturbance. The funny thing about this incident was that they guy wasn't really causing a disturbance, at least not any that I could see. He was clearly upset, but he seemed calm about it. The he went back into the vestibule with the conductor, and the next thing we know, the train is stopping. Who knows what he said to the conductor, but he was traveling with his family and didn't seem to be a troublemaker.

 

[jis]

Unfortunately, riding in Coach does not guarantee you’ll be able to snag a dinner reservation. Depends on how full the train is. Sleepers get their meals included—everyone else is first-come first-serve.

This may be the reason they are considering pre-selling meal packages to the Coach passengers as a possible direction to go in the new improved traditional Diner service. So that Coach passengers who so choose can have a predictable access to meals instead of playing Russian Roulette about it.

The other major reason is to get a handle on managing spoilage (and conversely shortage), which has historically been a major problem. Unfortunately the Amtrak network is so thin that it is not practical to be able to go out and get some additional meals or such when a shortage is discovered en route, so it has to be managed at the source. It is different in places like India where almost every major station either has departmental kitchen or contract caterers to call up to board additional food if needed.

 

[neroden]

Pre-selling meals has been an obviously good idea for years, and I remember it being mentioned in a document from, if I remember correctly, 10 years ago.

Instead of implementing it promptly, *someone* in Amtrak management diid all this downgrading of meal service to drive customers away. This sort of thing is why we don't trust Amtrak management.

 

[edolan]

Regarding if the star would get the diner back.. it officially did! SB Star 91 ran with 2x P42, 2x Amfleet II Coach, 1 Amfleet II Café, 1 VLII Diner, 1 VLI Sleeper, 1 VLII Sleeper, and 1 VLII baggage

Certainly an interesting consist as it is very sleeper-heavy in its arrangement — I assume there will be more coach cars on the meteor as the 1-train-per-day arrangement ran with 6-7 coach cars. I was also surprised to see a VLII on the consist as I assumed they would put all the VLII’s on the Meteor until they had enough for the Star. Thoughts?

 

[zephyr17]

Unfortunately, riding in Coach does not guarantee you’ll be able to snag a dinner reservation. Depends on how full the train is. Sleepers get their meals included—everyone else is first-come first-serve. I’m assuming this incident took place pre-COVID, but even then some people just don’t have respect or common sense. It’s not the Conductor’s fault. He/she is there to ensure safe operation of the train. They have every right to boot you off the train if you are causing a disturbance and are a threat to everyone else.

One thing we should all remember is that Amtrak partly de-staffed the dining cars well before Flex Dining, COVID, or even Anderson. They weren't running all the tables, at least on Superliner diners, because the waitstaff had been cut back. There was not really a problem with coach passengers getting into the diner before that that I can recall, at least on the Superliner trains where most of my travel was done.

 

[zephyr17]

Of course, this incident was pre-covid. I agree that the conductors should be able to boot people off the train if they're causing a disturbance. The funny thing about this incident was that they guy wasn't really causing a disturbance, at least not any that I could see. He was clearly upset, but he seemed calm about it. The he went back into the vestibule with the conductor, and the next thing we know, the train is stopping. Who knows what he said to the conductor, but he was traveling with his family and didn't seem to be a troublemaker.

Some conductors are on power trips. I nearly got tossed off the Adirondack because I questioned why I couldn't move to another coach that was much less full after we cleared the border. I was polite, but wanted to know. I just asked the one question and he said go back to the (packed) Montreal-New York car or get off my train.

End of the tale was it was a weekday and I called into Customer Relations on my cell phone since they were open. Luckily, a supervisor was doing an inspection ride and had gotten on at like Port Kent and he hunted me up and offered to take me back if it could be done quietly. But I hope the conductor heard from management about his attitude. But then again, it's Amtrak.

 

[Sidney]

The Meteor and the Star hopefully will be getting traditional dining in the near future.Many older people ride between the Northeast and Florida and can't be very happy with the flex offerings. June 23rd is the date for the Western trains. Hopefully by years end every overnight train will have traditional dining. We can hope.

 

[MARC Rider]

My point is give that feedback to Amtrak loud and clear as they are in the process of deciding what they will do with the eastern trains. While they have not given a firm time line, all indications are that it will happen later this year, if it is to happen at all. Larry pretty clearly said that they are not going to stretch this out for ever, while not committing to any specific timeline.

If you are an RPA member make this very clear to RPA too. Make it clear to them even if you are not a member

How do we make these comments to Amtrak and RPA?

 

[Qapla]

Call them, write them, email them ... try to contact them on their facebook/twitter page(s)

 

[Cal]

According to Larry Chestler, the LD BU boss at Amtrak, who just spoke at the RPA Council Meeting,...

1. Superliner and Viewliner I internal refresh is beginning and will continue for the rest of this year.

2. The Sleeper soft product that was trialed in the Auto Train is going to be deployed to all Sleeper service starting August this year

3. ALC-42s will enter service soon.

4. This summer (June) there will be 12 Viewliner IIs available for service (after accounting for shop and contingency). They will (continue to) run on the Silver Service only. All VL IIs are expected to be delivered by the end of 2021.

5. The USA Rail Pass product is going to be relaunched with some additional features this summer.

6. There will be a LD and 50th event in Chicago sometime in June, exact date TBD.

7. Traditional dining on all western LD trains will be restored in the June timeframe.

8. The exact form is still being finalized. Initially the Diner may just be for Sleepers with enhanced Cafe Menu including things like the Flex Meals. Moving forward Diner meal packages may be sold to Coach passengers. Basically they want to get away from a-la carte service in the Diner apparently.

9. Eastern LDs can expect traditional dining in late fall at the earliest. The exact form of it is still being determined. My comment is, give Amtrak strong feedback that the customers do not want Flex meals repackages as the thing that is provided in the Diner served by a server at a table.

Any updates with these?

 

[MARC Rider]

Call them, write them, email them ... try to contact them on their facebook/twitter page(s)

Call or write whom? Customer relations? CEO Flynn? The head of the Long Distance business line? I would think that an email sent to a general Amtrak email address would just get lost in the shuffle. The same goes for RPA.

 

[west point]

We do not know if personnel is a problem causing east coast dining to wait? The C-19 furloughs and quits may leave Amtrak short of persons to assign to diners ? Training new OBS does take time.

 

[Oreius]

Some conductors are on power trips. I nearly got tossed off the Adirondack because I questioned why I couldn't move to another coach that was much less full after we cleared the border. I was polite, but wanted to know. I just asked the one question and he said go back to the (packed) Montreal-New York car or get off my train.

End of the tale was it was a weekday and I called into Customer Relations on my cell phone since they were open. Luckily, a supervisor was doing an inspection ride and had gotten on at like Port Kent and he hunted me up and offered to take me back if it could be done quietly. But I hope the conductor heard from management about his attitude. But then again, it's Amtrak.

I rode the Adirondack in 2012, and both Amfleet 2s were packed both ways! On the way up, I did sit in the 2nd Amfleet 1 next to the Lounge. No one said anything. When we got to Rouses Point, we were directed back to our “home” seats and the Lounge was closed due to Canadian customs. However, after we cleared customs, I was allowed to sit in that nearly empty car for the remainder of the trip. The Conductor was a very nice lady. “The train is yours!”

 

[zephyr17]

I rode the Adirondack in 2012, and both Amfleet 2s were packed both ways! On the way up, I did sit in the 2nd Amfleet 1 next to the Lounge. No one said anything. When we got to Rouses Point, we were directed back to our “home” seats and the Lounge was closed due to Canadian customs. However, after we cleared customs, I was allowed to sit in that nearly empty car for the remainder of the trip. The Conductor was a very nice lady. “The train is yours!”

Well, my conductor was a guy and he kept all the NYP people in one or two Amfleet Is after we cleared US Customs. There were Amfleet IIs on the other side of the Cafe, and they stopping people from passing the Cafe. One of the worst little tin god conductors I've ever had the displeasure of riding with.