Sins Against Humanity are a Part of American Railroad History

[20th Century Rider]

We all probably remember reading about the Transcontinental Railroad in grade school… but did we stop to feel the pain and tragedy of the migrant workers who were shipped over from China to do the back breaking work? Do we think about all the lives that were lost?

Do we think of the Native Americans being pushed off sacred land so it could be secured for the railroads?

Are we aware there were segregated passenger cars and that minorities were stereotyped in menial jobs of servitude to the white passenger?

Due to the immensity and significance of this topic, there are many scholarly posts by edu and gov agencies that can be accessed online.

Let’s have a conversation.

https://www.npca.org/articles/2192-...-Wj_qWtJIV3aaYmJkDST0um0NdM2D214aAq2zEALw_wcB
https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2020/02/exhibit-sheds-light-railways-discriminatory-history
https://www.jbhe.com/2020/03/exhibi...nation-and-violence-in-the-railroad-industry/
https://railroads.unl.edu/topics/segregation.php

 

[jis]

Whenever people talk about the pre-60's golden age, I am constantly reminded in my head about the little note that our hosts in the US (MIT and Ford Foundation) shared with us regarding issues of traveling to the South Eastern US when we got our J1/2 Visas to visit the US in the early '60s.

Basically the gist of it was, upto Washington DC is fine. Beyond that it may not always be quite so pleasant. Though by then actual segregation on trains had probably ended everywhere. And in places like Florida when segregation was recreated, for some odd reason Asian Indians' status changed from colored to white!

 

[jebr]

Please keep this topic narrowly focused on rail history and discussion.

 

[me_little_me]

In the town where I live, the station was not only segregated but black men had to go outside to enter a separate door to use the bathroom.
On the other hand, white women even had a separate room so those traveling solo or with children but no husband traveling with them had their own room so they wouldn't have to associate with the crude white men cursing and using spittoons.
And the station wasn't even built until the beginning of the 20th century.

 

[MARC Rider]

The basic story about the role of the Chinese workers who built the Central Pacific has never been hidden. I certainly remember learning about it in my American history class and in books I've read about the transcontinental railway. I also remember learning about how they were screwed over after the job was done with various discriminatory laws such as the Chinese Exclusion Act and such.

 

[MARC Rider]

This picture was taken in the Greensboro, NC Amtrak station in May 2019. Behind the photographer is a similar pair of doors, one of which is marked as the Men's Room. I suspect that the door on the right was the "Colored" Women's Room. There's a Civil Rights Museum in Greensboro at the site of a Woolworth's sit-in in 1963. One of the exhibits was a photo of this depot pointing out the Jim Crow entrance that Blacks had to use. It's still there today, though, of course, anyone can use whatever entrance they want.



This is the waiting room of the Savannah, GA Amtrak station, built by the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad in 1962. The picture was taken in April 2016. Those blank doors against the wall were the old Jim Crow restrooms. The current restrooms are located behind the photographer. According to the Wikipedia article about the station, these Jim Crow restrooms were recently renovated to be ADA compliant, as the current restrooms cannot handle wheelchairs. However, as of October 2015 (maybe someone needs to update the Wiki article) they haven't been re-opened for use.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The basic story about the role of the Chinese workers who built the Central Pacific has never been hidden. I certainly remember learning about it in my American history class and in books I've read about the transcontinental railway. I also remember learning about how they were screwed over after the job was done with various discriminatory laws such as the Chinese Exclusion Act and such.

What Americans learn today is largely dependent on what a state like Texas or California tells a publisher to include in history and science books. The difference between them is substantial and growing over time. Smaller and less populous states don't have this kind of clout so they choose between the few that do. Private schooling often ignores information that contradicts dogma and we only narrowly avoided a recent move toward propagandist curricula.

 

[20th Century Rider]

View attachment 20580

This picture was taken in the Greensboro, NC Amtrak station in May 2019. Behind the photographer is a similar pair of doors, one of which is marked as the Men's Room. I suspect that the door on the right was the "Colored" Women's Room. There's a Civil Rights Museum in Greensboro at the site of a Woolworth's sit-in in 1963. One of the exhibits was a photo of this depot pointing out the Jim Crow entrance that Blacks had to use. It's still there today, though, of course, anyone can use whatever entrance they want.

View attachment 20582

This is the waiting room of the Savannah, GA Amtrak station, built by the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad in 1962. The picture was taken in April 2016. Those blank doors against the wall were the old Jim Crow restrooms. The current restrooms are located behind the photographer. According to the Wikipedia article about the station, these Jim Crow restrooms were recently renovated to be ADA compliant, as the current restrooms cannot handle wheelchairs. However, as of October 2015 (maybe someone needs to update the Wiki article) they haven't been re-opened for use.

All the current documentation shows that there were separate waiting areas and bathrooms for people of color in all transit types in the South. Am combing for pics where segregation was associated with rail travel. If anyone can find please do post.

There seem to be many pics of bus stations showing segregated waiting and bathroom accommodations. A huge topic and much to read...

because there is much to learn about and remember...

https://www.nps.gov/subjects/tellingallamericansstories/upload/CivilRights_DesegPublicAccom.pdf
https://www.loc.gov/resource/rbpe.15902600/

 

[20th Century Rider]

Here is an excellent audio account of "The African-American Railroad Experience." Just pull up and click in. Sponsored by kpbs and San Diego State University, CA. Quite a learning experience and insight into segregated railroad culture in America. Enjoy this account... we can all learn from it!

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/mar/23/african-american-railroad-experience/

 

[HenryK]

20th Century Rider, thank you for starting this thread. It definitely is part of railroad history and culture and cannot be buried in the sand of denial.

 

[AFS1970]

More than a few years ago, a nearby trolley museum received a car that had been in service during segregation and then for some time after. As a result the condition it had most recently seen service in was actually the refit. There was a big debate as to which condition to restore the car to. I was a member but in active. I was in favor of restoring it to the era of segregation as a teaching tool. Especially a trolley car that reverses at the end of the line, so the front becomes the back. You cannot make any valid argument for keeping the sides separate when you actually switch the sides on every trip. This was done by reversible signs hanging on hooks. I ended up not renewing my membership so I don't know how they ended up refurbishing the car.

 

[me_little_me]

Some more things:

Southeastern Railway Museum, Duluth (Atlanta), GA
Passenger cars at the museum

1212 – Passenger Coach – Southern Railway

This heavyweight coach was built in 1917 by Pullman with seating for 44. It was modified in 1940 into a partitioned configuration for use during the segregation years (“Jim Crow”). It was modernized in 1953. The coach was donated in 1968.
Status: On exhibit

And at the Hendersonville, NC depot, this drawing of the 1912 modification to the building when it was modified to extend the building:


Note the restrooms.

 

[sttom]

One of the many "quirks" of history classes in the US, at least when it involves the railroads that I find a bit suspicious is how history classes tend to ignore the contributions of the Pullman Porters to the Civil Rights and Labor Movements of the early 20th century. US history pretty much only touched on the following subjects; Puritans, the Constitution, Slavery, Civil War, Reconstruction/Jim Crow, Depression, World War 2, and Civil Rights Movement. With how much time we spent talking about the African American portion of our population, we never once brought up the importance of the first black union to get federal recognition, the union that helped organize boycotts and other events during the 1950s and 60s, and frankly the organization that helped break the outright segregation inside the railroad industry. My grandpa was Mexican and he always used to tell me that even in California, some jobs along the SP were for white people only, even without Jim Crow. He could never receive the training to become an engineer because of his last name, but its something that isn't brought up at all. Part of why I think this is has to do with the people writing history. They have no concept of economic problems so anything to do with the Labor Movement other than mentioning than it happened is off limits to the people writing the books.

On the subject of land grants, I know the history books I've read, even from other states mention them, but not how they were allotted and all of the various whys behind them. I have since read about them and that some of the land is actually still owned by the railroads to this day. The part that I find more interesting is what the railroads have done since then. The Santa Fe specifically had a very good relationship with the tribes along their lines and that business relationship tended to not make the federal government happy. Since the tribes would make art pieces for the railroad and the Fred Harvey Company and the federal government wanted to destroy their cultures, this was a problem art being cultural artifacts and all.

 

[20th Century Rider]

One of the many "quirks" of history classes in the US, at least when it involves the railroads that I find a bit suspicious is how history classes tend to ignore the contributions of the Pullman Porters to the Civil Rights and Labor Movements of the early 20th century. US history pretty much only touched on the following subjects; Puritans, the Constitution, Slavery, Civil War, Reconstruction/Jim Crow, Depression, World War 2, and Civil Rights Movement. With how much time we spent talking about the African American portion of our population, we never once brought up the importance of the first black union to get federal recognition, the union that helped organize boycotts and other events during the 1950s and 60s, and frankly the organization that helped break the outright segregation inside the railroad industry. My grandpa was Mexican and he always used to tell me that even in California, some jobs along the SP were for white people only, even without Jim Crow. He could never receive the training to become an engineer because of his last name, but its something that isn't brought up at all. Part of why I think this is has to do with the people writing history. They have no concept of economic problems so anything to do with the Labor Movement other than mentioning than it happened is off limits to the people writing the books.

On the subject of land grants, I know the history books I've read, even from other states mention them, but not how they were allotted and all of the various whys behind them. I have since read about them and that some of the land is actually still owned by the railroads to this day. The part that I find more interesting is what the railroads have done since then. The Santa Fe specifically had a very good relationship with the tribes along their lines and that business relationship tended to not make the federal government happy. Since the tribes would make art pieces for the railroad and the Fred Harvey Company and the federal government wanted to destroy their cultures, this was a problem art being cultural artifacts and all.

You are so right on so many issues. School textbooks have shown much bias to African Americans, Native Americans, Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans, and more. Much is coming out to set the record straight. It's hard to see how, with the Constitution written so long ago... things continued for so long to be so inaccurate and biased!

https://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publications/se/6003/600310.html
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...xamines-how-textbooks-taught-white-supremacy/
https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/8/26/20829771/slavery-textbooks-history

 

[como]

All the current documentation shows that there were separate waiting areas and bathrooms for people of color in all transit types in the South. Am combing for pics where segregation was associated with rail travel. If anyone can find please do post.

There seem to be many pics of bus stations showing segregated waiting and bathroom accommodations. A huge topic and much to read...

because there is much to learn about and remember...

https://www.nps.gov/subjects/tellingallamericansstories/upload/CivilRights_DesegPublicAccom.pdf
https://www.loc.gov/resource/rbpe.15902600/

A picture of Cab Calloway's band in the 1930's taken by his bass player, Milt Hinton:


Both of my parents were from Alabama and lived there through the early 1950's. My dad told me about taking trips to Detroit in segregated coaches until he reached Cincinnati when he could switch to another coach. He also mentioned sitting in the booths at the end of a diner where black passengers would be seated behind a curtain so the would not be visible to white diners. One of my early memories of pre-Amtrak travel was taking the train with my parents to vising my grandmother in Birmingham, AL in the summer of 1962. On the trip home the "colored" waiting room was still present at the L&N station. Later on my parents explained that they would always arrive at the station at the last minute and walk straight to the platform to avoid dealing with that aspect of segregation.

 

[20th Century Rider]

A picture of Cab Calloway's band in the 1930's taken by his bass player, Milt Hinton:
View attachment 20615

Both of my parents were from Alabama and lived there through the early 1950's. My dad told me about taking trips to Detroit in segregated coaches until he reached Cincinnati when he could switch to another coach. He also mentioned sitting in the booths at the end of a diner where black passengers would be seated behind a curtain so the would not be visible to white diners. One of my early memories of pre-Amtrak travel was taking the train with my parents to vising my grandmother in Birmingham, AL in the summer of 1962. On the trip home the "colored" waiting room was still present at the L&N station. Later on my parents explained that they would always arrive at the station at the last minute and walk straight to the platform to avoid dealing with that aspect of segregation.

The documentation you present is important, interesting, and much appreciated.

An interesting account of the Jim Crow mentality from youtube:

 

[20th Century Rider]

In doing online research not everything found may be accurate or authentically factual. Generally students and scholars doing research are directed towards sites presented by accredited schools... .edu /// or US government institutions... .gov. Always do check out the origin of other resources... that they are from public television, public radio, or other accredited institution that is responsible, comprehensive, licensed, and unbiased.

Here is a virtual library data base found on the website of a state certified school district in New Hampshire. It appears to have an impressive scope and sequence of information.

https://libguides.timberlane.net/c.php?g=457607&p=3129310

 

[cirdan]

For fear of stating the obvious, the public areas in Dallas Union station, including the waiting room and rest rooms, are AFAIK the area formerly set aside for blacks. It is cheaply furnished and utilitarian. The area for whites was much more monumental and beautiful. It is now used for other purposes and regular Amtrak passengers have no access there.

Thus rather than the end of segregation leading to everybody getting something that was better, in some cases it went the other way.

I have also mused for example, that although it was very brave what Rosa Parks did on the bus in Montgomery, if you look at the quality of the bus service today compared to what existed then, regardless of what color your skin is, I think Rosa Parks must be turning in her grave. Political indifference has led to an erosion of public services, even in such historically significant locations. Why don't people have a sense for history?

 

[cirdan]

In doing online research not everything found may be accurate or authentically factual. Generally students and scholars doing research are directed towards sites presented by accredited schools... .edu /// or US government institutions... .gov. Always do check out the origin of other resources... that they are from public television, public radio, or other accredited institution that is responsible, comprehensive, licensed, and unbiased.

I think when it comes to specifically researching railroad history, universities and government institutions have never taken much of an interest in the matter and you won't find much in the way of factual details published by them. Most publically accessible railroad history has been complied by either private hobbyist authors or railroad historical associations. That is by volunteer individuals doing research in their free time. Mostly these people were not accredited historians. Professional historians may sometimes frown on their methods and many published books and magazine articles do contain factual errors or omissions. I am guilty of this myself. Sometimes there are things you only discover after you've published. I once had somebody on a forum quote my own article in an argument against me trying to prove I had the facts wrong. I was able to point out that i had since published a corrected version. But such publications are the only source we have on very many aspects of railroad history, and we owe the authors a debt of gratitude as without them we would have nothing at all.

 

[trainman74]

1937 photo of safety award-winning taxicab drivers in front of Tampa Union Station -- you can see "White Waiting Room" lettering above the station entrance, partly blocked by a palm tree. In the Jim Crow days, this station had separate waiting rooms with the ticketing office between them. I'm not sure how "equal" the furnishings were. (The interior has been extensively renovated, and the station now has one waiting room, with the ticketing office along one wall.)

 

[20th Century Rider]

1937 photo of safety award-winning taxicab drivers in front of Tampa Union Station -- you can see "White Waiting Room" lettering above the station entrance, partly blocked by a palm tree. In the Jim Crow days, this station had separate waiting rooms with the ticketing office between them. I'm not sure how "equal" the furnishings were. (The interior has been extensively renovated, and the station now has one waiting room, with the ticketing office along one wall.)

Great observation!

 

[Willbridge]

One of the many "quirks" of history classes in the US, at least when it involves the railroads that I find a bit susp..............

On the subject of land grants, I know the history books I've read, even from other states mention them, but not how they were allotted and all of the various whys behind them. I have since read about them and that some of the land is actually still owned by the railroads to this day. The part that I find more interesting is what the railroads have done since then. The Santa Fe specifically had a very good relationship with the tribes along their lines and that business relationship tended to not make the federal government happy. Since the tribes would make art pieces for the railroad and the Fred Harvey Company and the federal government wanted to destroy their cultures, this was a problem art being cultural artifacts and all.

The residual land grant property often shows up in resource and environmental issues in the West. It's usually still in railroad hands when it has no farming value, so the 19th century companies had few customers for it. Mineral values and timber are now more important. It's also complicated by the checkerboard pattern, in which the alternating parcels are owned by the federal government. From time to time there are land swaps to create more usable property.

Occasionally it leads to humor. The NP land grant included part of the summit of Mt. St. Helens. The question asked in resource circles after it exploded was whether that meant that BN now owned all of the land covered in volcanic ash or whether BN was liable for damages caused by their volcano.

What is often left out of school books is that some land grants were withdrawn due to failures by railway companies to meet the terms of the grant. Oregon has some counties that receive federal payments in lieu of taxes because private land was returned to federal ownership after the county was set up. The Oregon & California Land Grant stories kept the newspapers busy.

In the case of the O&C timber lands, loggers were imported from the South. They introduced the Ku Klux Klan to a part of Oregon that was already bitter about the land issues. For generations the one thing that left and right could agree on was that the railroad (eventually the SP) was evil.

 

[me_little_me]

I have also mused for example, that although it was very brave what Rosa Parks did on the bus in Montgomery, if you look at the quality of the bus service today compared to what existed then, regardless of what color your skin is, I think Rosa Parks must be turning in her grave. Political indifference has led to an erosion of public services, even in such historically significant locations. Why don't people have a sense for history?

It has nothing to do with a sense of history IMHO. Once Americans (primarily white) were able to afford cars and homes away from minorities in the suburbs, they saw no need to "waste" money on public transportation because it only benefitted "them". Better, wider roads is what they wanted. Not public transit. And if you had to go a long way into, say, NYC, the only public transit was the bus to the nearby commuter rail and the commuter rail itself - and even that dropped off as freeways began and increased in length and width.

It's not that people object to paying taxes. They object to paying taxes that help others so schools with fancy equipment and lots of sports facilities are wonderful but helping the poor to get to their jobs is anathema. I mentioned in these forums once before that my next door neighbor in suburban Atlanta didn't want MARTA extended to our community because all it would do is bring "them" [not the word he used] in so they could steal TVs. He actually said those words.

 

[cirdan]

It has nothing to do with a sense of history IMHO. Once Americans (primarily white) were able to afford cars and homes away from minorities in the suburbs, they saw no need to "waste" money on public transportation because it only benefitted "them". Better, wider roads is what they wanted. Not public transit. And if you had to go a long way into, say, NYC, the only public transit was the bus to the nearby commuter rail and the commuter rail itself - and even that dropped off as freeways began and increased in length and width.

It's not that people object to paying taxes. They object to paying taxes that help others so schools with fancy equipment and lots of sports facilities are wonderful but helping the poor to get to their jobs is anathema. I mentioned in these forums once before that my next door neighbor in suburban Atlanta didn't want MARTA extended to our community because all it would do is bring "them" [not the word he used] in so they could steal TVs. He actually said those words.

Maybe I didn't express myself very well, but this is more or less what i was trying to say.

Back then, blacks were protesting to get equal access to public services. They payed the same tax rates as whites, but did not have the same rights to the services being financed out of that tax money.

They did finally get that equal access in name only. But around that time the services as a whole started to decline to the point that it became a rather pointless and valueless victory. What is the value in desegregating a bus service if at the same time you degrade the quality to the point that nobody wants to ride anyway? Is it not cynical for people to pronounce how much they admire Rosa Parks while at the same time voting against transit spending?

 

[AFS1970]

There are of course other factors that have lead to the downgrade or failure to upgrade in some transit services. The bus service in my city is for the most part way better than it was when I was growing up, but there are geographic limitations to some routes. Others have been shortened to meet safety guidelines, after a fatality several years ago transit busses no longer can back up at the end of a route and must now go around a block to get back onto the route. The concept of a block is daunting in some of the suburban route ends. Also the further towards the northern outskirts you get in my city, the fewer east/west routes that are suitable for bus travel there are. So the map tends to look like fingers off of a central palm, which ends up making the trip to a central transfer point work against anyone trying to take the bus between neighborhoods.
While none of that is inherently racist, it has the effect of making the bus unappealing to the suburban neighborhoods which have the least minorities and more appealing to the urban ones which have developed into minority neighborhoods as time went on.