Slumbercoaches or sectional sleepers?

[PaulM]

I'd vote for couchettes: they seat almost as many as coach but give everyone a bed to lay on. In Sweden I took a 15-hour overnight journey that was something like $80 for coach and $110 for couchette. I'd gladly pay up to 30% more to have the opportunity to lay down.

Two facing bench seats (for three people each) convert to six bunks at night. My only complaint is the limited sightseeing opportunity.

That's a good picture of a couchette for those who have never seen one. But I don't think you would find 15 hour couchette trips in central Europe. As far as I know they don't convert from two seats, rather they are always in the 6 bed (4 in 1st class) configuration. That's why they only seem to depart between 9:00 -11:00PM and arrive between 7 and 8 AM.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I have had the pleasure of traveling in just about every type of sleeping car accomodation operated by Amtrak and private railroads. I have also traveled in Europe in Wagon Lit First and Second class, couchettes and first class seats the recline almost flat. As Bill Haithcoat mentions, there is no such thing as sectional accomodation. I believe what is being referred to is Pullman Open sections. The sections mostly went away because travelers wanted more privacy than they offered. I traveled in Sections often back in the 1950s and early sections. Some businesses such as the government and military only would reimburse for the cost of a section which kept these accomodations around longer. When the railroads gave up passenger service on April 30, 1971, two Sleeping Car routes with section accomodations still survived; the thrice weekly Gulf Wind from Jacksonville to New Orleans and the thrice weekly Butte Special from Salt Lake City to Butte. As Bill and others mentioned, Slumbercoaches were built as a low cost alternative to first class sleeping accomodations. 4 Slumbercoaches were built by Burlington for the New Denver Zepyr in 1956. These were very successful so Northern Pacific built 4 for Chicago to Seattle service, New York Central built 4 for New York-Chicago Service, Baltimore & Ohio built 3 and Missouri Pacific 1 for Washington-Texas Service with these latter 12 being built in 1959. New York Central and Baltimore & Ohio converted 15 older style Sleeping Cars to Slumbercoaches. Amtrak acquired and operated all 31 former Slumbercoaches from 1971 until the 1990s when Congress mandated that hopper style toilets be replaced by retention toilets. Since the Slumbercoaches were some of the newest sleeping cars built until Superliners, the cars weren't in that bad of shape but due to the additional rooms, the cost of converting toilets were prohibative so they were retired. I don't see section sleepering accomodations ever coming back, but if there ever is any real support for Long Distance Trains going forward, a sleeping car with more private accomodations than Superliners or Viewliner currently offer is a possibility.

 

[jis]

I'd vote for couchettes: they seat almost as many as coach but give everyone a bed to lay on. In Sweden I took a 15-hour overnight journey that was something like $80 for coach and $110 for couchette. I'd gladly pay up to 30% more to have the opportunity to lay down.

Two facing bench seats (for three people each) convert to six bunks at night. My only complaint is the limited sightseeing opportunity.

That's a good picture of a couchette for those who have never seen one. But I don't think you would find 15 hour couchette trips in central Europe. As far as I know they don't convert from two seats, rather they are always in the 6 bed (4 in 1st class) configuration. That's why they only seem to depart between 9:00 -11:00PM and arrive between 7 and 8 AM.

That may be the case now what with almost every important route covered by HSR trains anyway. But this was not always so. I have traveled in 2 Couchette from Rome to Karlsruhe, and the car did convert to daytime configuration with the berths being folded up leaving two bench seats seating three each. This used to be quite common on the Eurocity Expresses. The train I was traveling on that time for example was from Napoli to Dortmund, and its was designed to run overnight and then through the following day. And yes there were Eurocities that had 15 hour or longer runs with string of Couchette cars in them.

This particular train came in to Roma Tiburtina in daytime configuration. After departure from Rome it was converted to night configuration, and next morning just past Como as we entered Switzerland it was converted to daytime configuration again. And it stayed that way until I left the train at Karlsruhe.

 

[amamba]

In the US, I would prefer slumbercoaches over a section. I think that the daytime configuration of the section sounds like it could potentially be a little awkward with having to have a backwards seat across from a stranger and potentially not that much leg room. Also I like the idea of having a private toilet in the slumbercoach.

 

[Gord]

Mmmkay, so lets say that Amtrak gets a big new equipment order for their LD/overnight trains, which would lead to an expansion of LD services (more routes, longer trains, multiple frequines/day). Of course getting such expansion to happen is another story, so dont give me the old "amtrak doesnt have the money/equipment - congress isnt going to fund this, etc"

Anyway, in this expansion, Amtrak introduces some sort of "intermediate class" - something nicer than a coach seat (aka a bed), but without the full perks of a sleeper (like meals included in ticket or something like that). Of course it'd also be cheaper than a sleeper room.

There's two different solutions that come to mind - slumbercoaches and sectional sleepers. There aren't any slumbercoaches anymore, and you'll have to travel to Canada to ride in a sectional sleeper.

Now, which would you prefer if you were a traveler?

I think I'd prefer sectional sleepers. Got no time to explain, but think of sectional sleepers to sleeper rooms as youth hostels are to hotels. They do work.

A Superliner roomette isn't that far off a section. The only big difference is a sliding door instead of curtains.

Gord

 

[had8ley]

It has already been said by a few but a roomette, in Pullman days only had a seat for one person. Today's roomette is a whole different character where one or two can enjoy. I really don't see anyone at Amtrak championing a middle class~ equipment is so tight now, except for CCC's, that somebody's neck may come off if a "middle" class or couchettes are pushed through an equipment order. My suggestion, for what it is worth, is to convert a Heritage car to couchette or lounger accommodations and stick it on the Night Owl. There's a need for something besides the all night coach/biz arrangement and this would be a true test, at minimum expense,for an answer to the "Land Cruisers."

 

[jis]

It has already been said by a few but a roomette, in Pullman days only had a seat for one person. Today's roomette is a whole different character where one or two can enjoy.

In the 10-6's didn't the "6" designate that it had 6 two person roomettes, and of course 10 one person roomettes?

 

[PRR 60]

It has already been said by a few but a roomette, in Pullman days only had a seat for one person. Today's roomette is a whole different character where one or two can enjoy.

In the 10-6's didn't the "6" designate that it had 6 two person roomettes, and of course 10 one person roomettes?

The "10-6" referred to 10 one-person "roomettes" and 6 two-person "double bedrooms" (what are now called bedrooms by Amtrak).

 

[Ispolkom]

It has already been said by a few but a roomette, in Pullman days only had a seat for one person. Today's roomette is a whole different character where one or two can enjoy.

In the 10-6's didn't the "6" designate that it had 6 two person roomettes, and of course 10 one person roomettes?

The "10-6" referred to 10 one-person "roomettes" and 6 two-person "double bedrooms" (what are now called bedrooms by Amtrak).

The modern-day Amtrak roomette most closely resembles the pre-Amtrak double room in the slumbercoaches.

 

[had8ley]

Mmmkay, so lets say that Amtrak gets a big new equipment order for their LD/overnight trains, which would lead to an expansion of LD services (more routes, longer trains, multiple frequines/day). Of course getting such expansion to happen is another story, so dont give me the old "amtrak doesnt have the money/equipment - congress isnt going to fund this, etc"

Anyway, in this expansion, Amtrak introduces some sort of "intermediate class" - something nicer than a coach seat (aka a bed), but without the full perks of a sleeper (like meals included in ticket or something like that). Of course it'd also be cheaper than a sleeper room.

There's two different solutions that come to mind - slumbercoaches and sectional sleepers. There aren't any slumbercoaches anymore, and you'll have to travel to Canada to ride in a sectional sleeper.

Now, which would you prefer if you were a traveler?

I think I'd prefer sectional sleepers. Got no time to explain, but think of sectional sleepers to sleeper rooms as youth hostels are to hotels. They do work.

A Superliner roomette isn't that far off a section. The only big difference is a sliding door instead of curtains.

Gord

I think the seats were wider in the sections account of no toilet or closet between the hall way and the seats and the wall was not there.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

It has already been said by a few but a roomette, in Pullman days only had a seat for one person. Today's roomette is a whole different character where one or two can enjoy.

In the 10-6's didn't the "6" designate that it had 6 two person roomettes, and of course 10 one person roomettes?

Jishnu,

building upon what PRR 60 told you I have a suggestion. I think you told me you have an Official Guide. I do not know what date it is, if so. But some railroads sometimes showed some illustrations of sleeping car rooms back in the day.

Northern Pacific comes to mind. Some did not illustrate but still gave a little verbal description. You might check out some of that.

 

[fillyjonk]

I can only speak for myself on this, but the main reason I pop for the roomette accommodation on Amtrak is for the privacy/greater level of quiet.

I'm a single woman most frequently traveling alone. When I traveled coach in the past (starting around '99 or so), I could usually get two seats to myself except at holiday times. More recently, coaches have become more crowded.

The biggest precipitating factor in getting me to spring for a roommette whenever I could was having a weird, creepy seatmate one trip. (I have long hair that I wear in a ponytail. He really, really liked my hair. I mean, liked it a little too much - he wanted to give me his address and asked me if I could send him my ponytail if I ever got it cut off. Um, yeah. I spent as much of that trip as possible in the lounge car. The conductor and lounge attendant knew of the issue and kind of watched over me, but I was still seriously creeped out).

Also, a couple times I couldn't get in a roommette and traveled coach recently, it was loud enough that even without earplugs I didn't sleep. Even with people turning off their cell phones and dvd players and such, there was still enough middle-of-the-night talking, children crying/running around, and loud snorers, that it was pretty uncomfortable for me. I suppose my problem is I'm a misanthrope who doesn't like crowds, but if you get one person in a car who just WON'T conform to the quiet hours rules and has to talk on their cellphone or such, it ruins it for everyone. And I've met enough fellow Americans who believe they're entitled to bend the rules that I could see that being a problem.

(Even at that the roommettes have sometimes been kind of noisy, but usually closing my door and putting in earplugs helps.

I'm not sure that Pullman type berths with curtains would solve the noise problem, and sharing a couchette accommodation with six random strangers would make me nervous, considering some of the seatmates I've had in the past. For a group of people, though, it would probably work really well.

 

[Nickrapak]

I think that Slumbercoaches would be the best idea for more economical bed accommodations. You still get the privacy of having your own room, while having a smaller space that would allow for more rooms per car. I think that open sections will fall flat much for the same reason they did in the middle of the 20th century: the lack of privacy.

 

[jis]

It has already been said by a few but a roomette, in Pullman days only had a seat for one person. Today's roomette is a whole different character where one or two can enjoy.

In the 10-6's didn't the "6" designate that it had 6 two person roomettes, and of course 10 one person roomettes?

The "10-6" referred to 10 one-person "roomettes" and 6 two-person "double bedrooms" (what are now called bedrooms by Amtrak).

The modern-day Amtrak roomette most closely resembles the pre-Amtrak double room in the slumbercoaches.

That is the point I was trying to make. However, with a caveat that I should clarify. Even though each room occupied the width of the car minus the corridor on one side in a 10-6, the actual floor space available for the bed was similar to what you have in a Roomette. The balance of the space was occupied by the toilet.

You can see a 10-6 car layout here.

Here is a nice PDF document that I found about Slumbercoaches BTW.

The Slumbercoach Doubles, looked like the current Amtrak Roomettes.

 

[Ispolkom]

The modern-day Amtrak roomette most closely resembles the pre-Amtrak double room in the slumbercoaches.

That is the point I was trying to make. Even though they were called bedrooms, they actually resembled what Amtrak calls Roomettes.

From what I can remember, the double bedroom in a 10 and 6 heritage sleeper was significantly larger than the slumbercoach double room, or the modern Amtrak roomette. It's been a long time, though, so I will defer to those with better or more recent experience.

 

[jis]

The modern-day Amtrak roomette most closely resembles the pre-Amtrak double room in the slumbercoaches.

That is the point I was trying to make. Even though they were called bedrooms, they actually resembled what Amtrak calls Roomettes.

From what I can remember, the double bedroom in a 10 and 6 heritage sleeper was significantly larger than the slumbercoach double room, or the modern Amtrak roomette. It's been a long time, though, so I will defer to those with better or more recent experience.

See the diagram. The overall room space was larger, but most of the additional space was occupied by the toilet.

 

[nferr]

Slumbercoach for sure. I don't think Sections would ever be really accepted by US travelers again.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

For me, slumbercoach, no doubt about it. They are small, but they are one's own private room.

 

[railiner]

It has already been said by a few but a roomette, in Pullman days only had a seat for one person. Today's roomette is a whole different character where one or two can enjoy.

In the 10-6's didn't the "6" designate that it had 6 two person roomettes, and of course 10 one person roomettes?

The "10-6" referred to 10 one-person "roomettes" and 6 two-person "double bedrooms" (what are now called bedrooms by Amtrak).

The modern-day Amtrak roomette most closely resembles the pre-Amtrak double room in the slumbercoaches.

That is the point I was trying to make. However, with a caveat that I should clarify. Even though each room occupied the width of the car minus the corridor on one side in a 10-6, the actual floor space available for the bed was similar to what you have in a Roomette. The balance of the space was occupied by the toilet.

You can see a 10-6 car layout here.

Here is a nice PDF document that I found about Slumbercoaches BTW.

The Slumbercoach Doubles, looked like the current Amtrak Roomettes.

Thanks so much for the link to that NRHS 'Bulletin'. I really enjoyed revisiting my favorite accommodations. I rode several of those cars thru the years. I always tried to secure one of the 'secret' bonus rooms (refer to page 11 about the larger four singles in the ex-NYC 16-10 cars), if there was one on my train.

My suggestion for a modern day economy sleeper, would be to rebuild a Superliner with an all-economy bedroom configuration. You could put as many as 28 of them in a Superliner---20 upstairs, and 8 downstairs. Such a car could sleep as many as 56 passenger on a double occupancy basis.