Southwest Chief Re-Route?

[henryj]

The Railrunner route is not connected to the BNSF main line. In fact, looking at Google in more detail, it looks to me as if the whole line north from Belen is no longer connected. Amtrak west may have to go all the way out to Dalies jct and back into Albuquerque to get there. Eastbound they would have to back out of Albuquerque to Dalies and then continue on the transcon. The old Santa Fe station and Harvey House in Belen is on the wrong side of the tracks. The Railrunner station is fenced off from the BNSF main and to connect it would require big bucks so right now there is no way for the SWC to stop in Belen at the Railrunner station and apparently no connection in Belen to go north to Albuquerque. Someone that lives or visits there would have to get down on the ground in Belen and see if that connection is even still there to connect to the line north. The tracks close to the Railrunner station are the refueling tracks for the BNSF.

 

[PRR 60]

The Railrunner route is not connected to the BNSF main line. In fact, looking at Google in more detail, it looks to me as if the whole line north from Belen is no longer connected. Amtrak west may have to go all the way out to Dalies jct and back into Albuquerque to get there. Eastbound they would have to back out of Albuquerque to Dalies and then continue on the transcon. The old Santa Fe station and Harvey House in Belen is on the wrong side of the tracks. The Railrunner station is fenced off from the BNSF main and to connect it would require big bucks so right now there is no way for the SWC to stop in Belen at the Railrunner station and apparently no connection in Belen to go north to Albuquerque. Someone that lives or visits there would have to get down on the ground in Belen and see if that connection is even still there to connect to the line north. The tracks close to the Railrunner station are the refueling tracks for the BNSF.

The line from ABQ to Belen does have a connection to the Transcon. The RailRunner and the Belen station are on a side track that terminates just south of the station, but a second track that diverges from RailRunner just south of West Aragon Road connects to the Transcon. BNSF uses it to access ABQ.

 

[AlanB]

Agreed PRR, there is a switch off the trancon just RR west past the Belen platform that connects to the Railrunner tracks.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Looks like the Chief would serve Albuquerque the same way the Star serves Tampa.

 

[gswager]

Belen line is a stub line for RailRunner. It ends just before the dirt of road overpass. I haven't been at Belen station for several years, so I'll have to revisit to check it out.

 

[Ryan]

PRR60 and Alan are correct:

Similar to the above map (thanks, that's a lot better than mine), the green is the transcon, blue are the Railrunner tracks, and the red is the connection from the transcon to the RR tracks. If you're going to use the existing Belen station, you'll have to come off the green tracks, go north on the red track past the switch at the top of the image and then back up onto the platform.

Then if you want to get back onto the transcon from Belen, do the same thing in reverse. North out of the station, past the switch, back up heading south on the red track until you're back on the transcon, then proceed.

By the time you do that, you can be halfway to ABQ...

 

[TVRM610]

Can someone crown Ryan the king of the maps? Of course with that power... comes great responsibility.

 

[Ryan]

I dunno, PRR60's map was much easier to see what I was talking about.

 

[henryj]

Thanks PRR60. The Google maps appear to be distorted making it look like the connection isn't there. I can't imagine why BNSF would remove it..........but stranger things have happened.

 

[user 1215]

I see a big problem trying to schedule the Wye move around the existing Railrunner schedule. Would all trains Wye in and straight out? Or straight in and Wye out?

I think this was already covered, but no need to go all the way to Belen to go West. There's a switch in the Isleta Pueblo community that keeps the train Northwest of Los Lunas on to the West.

I really miss living there. I lived in Los Lunas for two short years, but loved hanging out in Belen and watching train after train after train....

 

[Notelvis]

Thinking of 'spreading the wealth', maybe the currently out-of-service Santa Fe Southern Railroad could acquire trackage rights from Lamy to the Albuquerque wye and contract with Amtrak to provide an aging diesel switcher to tow the Southwest Chief out of the wye and into the ABQ station twice daily.

 

[Ryan]

Thanks PRR60. The Google maps appear to be distorted making it look like the connection isn't there. I can't imagine why BNSF would remove it..........but stranger things have happened.

You just have to zoom in far enough, the screenshot that I posted above from google maps.

 

[winterskigirl]

Personally, I'm not gambling with time. Booked the SWC this summer

 

[George Harris]

I see a big problem trying to schedule the Wye move around the existing Railrunner schedule. Would all trains Wye in and straight out? Or straight in and Wye out?
I think this was already covered, but no need to go all the way to Belen to go West. There's a switch in the Isleta Pueblo community that keeps the train Northwest of Los Lunas on to the West.

Wye in or wye out? Its a detail. It may even change back and forth as time goes on. SWC versus Railrunner is likewise an operational detail that can be solved and may run through several attempts before a solution that satisfies all concerned is developed.

PRR60's map gives the big picture.

Westbound, come in through Belen, go north to Albuquerque, wye either before or after the stop, then out along the current route, that is go back south as far as Isleta, turn right toward Dailes and keep going.

Eastbound, come in on the current route through Dailes and Isleta to Albuquerque, wye either before or after the stop, then out southbound to Belen, turn left and go up the mountain.

There is no real problem at Belen. Ryan's view makes it very clear that a train coming in from the east off the Freight line and heading toward Albuquerque would be on the same side of the freight mains as the Railrunner platform. If it is desired to have a stop there, it could be achieve without interfering with freight operation. The problem at issue before with Belen was when there was discussion about extending passenger service out of Albuquerque south of Belen on the line that ran to El Paso. Now, THAT service would have to cross the major transcontinental freight flow at Belen.

 

[AlanB]

There is no real problem at Belen. Ryan's view makes it very clear that a train coming in from the east off the Freight line and heading toward Albuquerque would be on the same side of the freight mains as the Railrunner platform. If it is desired to have a stop there, it could be achieve without interfering with freight operation.

I have to disagree with you here a bit George, as shown in this birdseye view, just north of the 309 bridge is the eastern end of the Belen platform, next to the parking lot. Just under/east of the bridge is a yard lead. Furthermore, that entire area is a major interlocking to serve the yards on both the north & south of the main, plus the cutoffs for going north & south. Any Amtrak train stopping at the Belen platform is going to be blocking that yard lead and at least part of the interlocking plant. I don't see BNSF agreeing to a stop here and I'm not sure that it's worth the effort anyhow.

 

[Ryan]

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying, Alan.

Google's imagery is a little more clear:

At the very bottom, you can see that the only track adjacent to the current platform ends just north of the bridge. The only way for the SWC approaching from the east to get to the Belen platform is to do the maneuver I described upthread involving a backup move to the platform.

Are you talking about a potential new platform that the SWC would stop at, perhaps just on the other side of the current platform track? I agree that would block the freight lines, but it looks like there is enough space to locate a new platform just a bit further north that would keep the train clear of any interference (although that would mean a bit of a walk from the station.

 

[jis]

Basically, the platform would have to north of the point where the connection to ABQ takes off from the main line

 

[Ryan]

Basically, the platform would have to north of the point where the connection to ALB takes off from the main line

That's some Bugs Bunny style navigation there if you end up in Albany!

 

[jis]

Sheesh! meant to say ABQ.

Or penny style as the case may be

 

[George Harris]

There is no real problem at Belen. Ryan's view makes it very clear that a train coming in from the east off the Freight line and heading toward Albuquerque would be on the same side of the freight mains as the Railrunner platform. If it is desired to have a stop there, it could be achieve without interfering with freight operation.

I have to disagree with you here a bit George, as shown in this birdseye view, just north of the 309 bridge is the eastern end of the Belen platform, next to the parking lot. Just under/east of the bridge is a yard lead. Furthermore, that entire area is a major interlocking to serve the yards on both the north & south of the main, plus the cutoffs for going north & south. Any Amtrak train stopping at the Belen platform is going to be blocking that yard lead and at least part of the interlocking plant. I don't see BNSF agreeing to a stop here and I'm not sure that it's worth the effort anyhow.

I really do not think making a stop at Belen is really worthwhile either. Definitely not if BNSF is unwilling to have a platform adjacent to the track that is connected on the south end. If BNSF wants the train clear of the freight mains, then the platform would have to be in part north of the Railrunner platform. A stop not clear of the main might not be a fatal flaw, as a unload/load only stop should not add more than 3 minutes to the time needed to clear the switch without stopping. A stop with part of the train covering the turnout to the Railrunner track is a problem only if people perceive it to be. There are or have been quite a few examples of platforms that went through a turnout in such a manner as this one would have to. If the powers that be want the stop bad enough to build a couple of turnouts and maybe plus a crossover between main track south of these pictures all these issues would go away.

 

[PaulM]

Regarding the main line vs. passenger station conflict, what about other stations? Once while purchasing tickets at Ft. Madison, IA, I noticed that every 5 minutes a BNSF freight pulled in and stopped while they changed engineers. I don't remember how long they were stopped or whether the SWC had to pull into a siding when they stopped, but I doubt it.

 

[TVRM610]

If the train can use the line to get to/from Albuquerque, it can use the platform. As I've mentioned before... It would shave an hour off the schedule most likely.

It would of course mean extra construction.. A longer platform and actual station facilities in Albuquerque plus the facilities to service the train. Most likely a second track as well.

It makes sense to stay at Albuquerque since the facilities (and passenger base) is there. However if Amtrak's top priority was running time on this route, it would make total sense to stop at Belen. And it is entirely possible.

 

[jis]

It is somewhat silly IMHO to worry about an additional one hour running time on a train that takes couple of days for its itinerary. There is more padding than an hour in the schedule as it is anyway.

 

[fulham]

In regards to the comment made about the SW Chief mixing in w/BNSF's trains on the eastern end of the transcon, why can't the BNSF just run the SW Chief on this portion of the route as they would any other high priority intermodal train?

Set the speed limit at 70 mph so there doesn't have to be the "leap frog" issue, put a slot into the system to accomodate the train when it comes onto the transcon in KS, build in some extra padding into ABQ account the single track bottle-neck at Vaughn and run it in the same fashion as any other intermodal train (albeit a high profile one).

There would have to be some concessions made regarding any stops (Wellington, Amarillo, Clovis), but I still think the investment to make it happen using the above scenario would be pretty minimal.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

It is somewhat silly IMHO to worry about an additional one hour running time on a train that takes couple of days for its itinerary. There is more padding than an hour in the schedule as it is anyway.

I agree. You've put your finger on the 'keystone.' As a theoretical discussion about the physical feasibilty of stopping in Belen I find this interesting, but I don't see it as an option if the reroute happens. Look at #3 especially. What is the point of rushing? To give the poor pax on #1 company in LAX at 4:30 in the morning? :mellow: