stimulus money

[AlanB]

The second best way is to hire as many unskilled and poorly skilled people as possible in make-work projects, minimizing use of any labor saving equipment. No Tunnel Boring Machines need apply, that's for sure.

Does replacing wood railroad ties with concrete ties work well for this?

Only if you use the 100 year old method for replacing ties.

But normally if one is replacing all the ties in a section of track, most of the work is done by machinery.

 

[wayman]

The second best way is to hire as many unskilled and poorly skilled people as possible in make-work projects, minimizing use of any labor saving equipment. No Tunnel Boring Machines need apply, that's for sure.

Does replacing wood railroad ties with concrete ties work well for this?

Only if you use the 100 year old method for replacing ties.

But normally if one is replacing all the ties in a section of track, most of the work is done by machinery.

And that's mighty tough work...

http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiPADRAIL1;ttPADRAIL1.html

Fil-a-mee-o-ry, ory, ay,

Fil-a-mee-o-ry, ory, ay,

Fil-a-mee-o-ry, ory, ay,

To work upon the railway!

Just a year or two ago, I caught a PBS documentary on railroad laborers, mostly African Americans, who worked on tasks such as replacing ties and laying rails the old fashioned way as recently as the '50s or '60s. Several 80-year-old retired workers were interviewed, and a number of them now have track gang reunions with their surviving workmates and attend railroad festivals where they sing the work songs whose rhythm kept them working precisely in time with each other as they heaved and hammered. One of the men they interviewed extensively worked for the L&N, another for the B&O I think. It was a great documentary, and I wish I could remember more about it so I could search for it.

 

[jackal]

Well, economists say the best way to stimulate the economy is to maximize welfare payments. Poor people spend their checks even before they come in, at places that turn the money over quickly.
The second best way is to hire as many unskilled and poorly skilled people as possible in make-work projects, minimizing use of any labor saving equipment. No Tunnel Boring Machines need apply, that's for sure.

Some economists--those subscribing to Keynesian economic theory.

Others, including those subscribing to the Chicago or Austrian schools of economics, say just the opposite: government interference in the market is precisely what causes inefficiency and recessions.

IANAE, and I don't claim to understand even the slightest bit about economics: I'm just noting that it's disingenuous to claim that all economists agree that giving my paycheck to someone who hasn't made the same responsible choices I have in order to secure a job like I have is what is needed to move the country forward.

At least some respected economists hold the view that the massive federal work projects initiated by FDR and others in the Depression era did virtually nothing to move the country out of it and that it was really the massive economic engine of World War II that pulled us back on our feet. Given their view, I'd be cautious of spending money we don't have on an unproven assumption that likely won't help the nation at all (and will probably hurt us by saddling us with an unbearable debt load). I don't advocate bombing Canada or anything to get our economy going--I'm just saying that there are two (or more) sides to every story and we should carefully look at the situation before commiting such tremendous resources. It sure doesn't seem like we've given it much careful thought recently.

 

[jackal]

Does replacing wood railroad ties with concrete ties work well for this?

Unrelated side note: In Australia, we met an old Aboriginal man who had worked for Queensland Rail (or whatever its predecessor was, if that was the case) replacing wooden ties in the Outback (from Townsville out west along the Flinders Highway towards Mount Isa) with not concrete but steel ties (sleepers, as they call them there).

I had never heard of steel ties. We stopped at several grade crossings in the area looking for steel ties, but all we ever saw were concrete ones.

I've wondered if he was just dreaming or confused or something or if steel ties really exist...perhaps they're unique to Australia...

 

[AAARGH!]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area

It's odd that your Wikipedia page claims Boston is 10th, whereas my favorite Wikipedia page claims Boston is 5th. I haven't yet figured out the reason for the inconsistency.

It's the difference between a SMSA (Standard Metropolitan Statistcal Area) and CSA (Combined Statistcal Area).

In the Cleveland SMSA, Akron is not included as it has its own SMSA. However, the Cleveland CSA does include Akron. I'm assuming its the same situation for Boston and others.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Others, including those subscribing to the Chicago or Austrian schools of economics, say just the opposite: government interference in the market is precisely what causes inefficiency and recessions.

The banking industry getting itself into a situation where it asked for a government bailout doesn't seem to support those schools of economics when you consider that government regulation could have prevented the housing bubble mess. However, mentioning that point of view is certainly valid if we're looking at the range of things various economists believe.

 

[Montanan]

Unrelated side note: In Australia, we met an old Aboriginal man who had worked for Queensland Rail (or whatever its predecessor was, if that was the case) replacing wooden ties in the Outback (from Townsville out west along the Flinders Highway towards Mount Isa) with not concrete but steel ties (sleepers, as they call them there).
I had never heard of steel ties. We stopped at several grade crossings in the area looking for steel ties, but all we ever saw were concrete ones.

I've wondered if he was just dreaming or confused or something or if steel ties really exist...perhaps they're unique to Australia...

Sorry to continue the topic drift ... but I know steel ties have been used in several locations worldwide where the availability of wood was historically limited. I ride the train from Cuzco to Puno, Peru a number of years ago, where much of the route was above timberline, and there were steel ties in use there

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Well, economists say the best way to stimulate the economy is to maximize welfare payments. Poor people spend their checks even before they come in, at places that turn the money over quickly.
The second best way is to hire as many unskilled and poorly skilled people as possible in make-work projects, minimizing use of any labor saving equipment. No Tunnel Boring Machines need apply, that's for sure.

Some economists--those subscribing to Keynesian economic theory.

Others, including those subscribing to the Chicago or Austrian schools of economics, say just the opposite: government interference in the market is precisely what causes inefficiency and recessions.

IANAE, and I don't claim to understand even the slightest bit about economics: I'm just noting that it's disingenuous to claim that all economists agree that giving my paycheck to someone who hasn't made the same responsible choices I have in order to secure a job like I have is what is needed to move the country forward.

At least some respected economists hold the view that the massive federal work projects initiated by FDR and others in the Depression era did virtually nothing to move the country out of it and that it was really the massive economic engine of World War II that pulled us back on our feet. Given their view, I'd be cautious of spending money we don't have on an unproven assumption that likely won't help the nation at all (and will probably hurt us by saddling us with an unbearable debt load). I don't advocate bombing Canada or anything to get our economy going--I'm just saying that there are two (or more) sides to every story and we should carefully look at the situation before commiting such tremendous resources. It sure doesn't seem like we've given it much careful thought recently.

Jackal, don't respond to me immediately or anything. Let me make a statement, and then you think about what it could mean and why I could be right for a while. I know it's counterintuitive, but it is the basis of my economic theory. So just place it in your head and let it run loose, and then after a few hours thinking about it, we can discuss it.

Inefficiency is the driving engine of a functioning and prosperous worldwide economy.

You have just heard Gribinian Economic Theory. Consider it for a while.

 

[jackal]

The banking industry getting itself into a situation where it asked for a government bailout doesn't seem to support those schools of economics when you consider that government regulation could have prevented the housing bubble mess. However, mentioning that point of view is certainly valid if we're looking at the range of things various economists believe.

Perhaps. But I also stumbled across this NYT article written in 1999 which basically predicted the current mess based on pressure from the Clinton Administration on Fannie Mae to back loans to people with riskier credit profiles (a political move to increase support among lower socio-economic groups). Perhaps government regulation could have prevented the economic tumble...but government interference was what caused it in the first place.

Again, IANAE (I Am Not An Economist), nor have I ever played one on TV, so I'm not qualified to debate these theories and views. I can only present viewpoints for people to consider.

On that note: interesting concept, GML, but it's beyond my ability to intelligently discuss without a good bit of further research on economic theory, which I do not have time for at this stage in life. Perhaps someday.

 

[jis]

So after that interesting detour, could we now get back to what is happening at Amtrak?

All that I can say is that I am eagerly looking forward to the 7th March ESPA and NARP meeting in Schenectady where Boardman is a featured speaker. I intend to ask him a few questions about various things to do with Amtrak's future if I get a chance in the hustle and bustle.