Stop/door open requests, Screen Doors and other boarding door issues

[BCL]

How do various systems/equipment do it? I got thrown for a loop the first time I rode on Sacramento RTD light rail because their doors (save the front door for disabled passenger) opened only by pressing a button when boarding or departing. I’ve been spending much of the past week in LA where I was on the. Metro Expo line where we stopped at my destination station, the doors didn’t open (I tried pressing the door open button) and we continued on to the next station. Another two passengers joined me trying to backtrack.

And I saw some bold stuff on the Metro Red line. One woman apparently got up too late and the doors closed. So she just pulled the emergency door open handle and it opened where she got out. Another passenger went up to put it back in place because otherwise we weren’t leaving with an open door.

 

[skylar]

I believe LA's Expo (Purple) line functions like most light-rail and metro systems where it makes every stop without needing a request to be made. I wonder if there was some mechanical or signaling problem that kept the door from opening - did the other door in your car open?

As for the Red line, I've never seen that but I certainly have people use the inter-car gangways while the train is in motion, which also seems a bit risky. In Chicago, those gangways are used by industrious drug dealers so they can hit up their customers through the entire train quickly.

 

[BCL]

I believe LA's Expo (Purple) line functions like most light-rail and metro systems where it makes every stop without needing a request to be made. I wonder if there was some mechanical or signaling problem that kept the door from opening - did the other door in your car open?

As for the Red line, I've never seen that but I certainly have people use the inter-car gangways while the train is in motion, which also seems a bit risky. In Chicago, those gangways are used by industrious drug dealers so they can hit up their customers through the entire train quickly.

The other door didn’t open and (I kid you not) two nuns were looking at it too. They were the people I walked with to the other platform. I also saw a couple LAPD on the platform and asked them how often it happens, and one officer says that can happen if the operator doesn’t open the door. The doors did open at the next stop.

On Sacramento’s RTD light rail, there are buttons to open individual doors.

 

[BCL]

On Sacramento’s RTD light rail, there are buttons to open individual doors.

 

[Willbridge]

The LRT door buttons are intended to save heat or cooling. In Edmonton, stopping at outdoor stations at which occasional temperatures could get down to minus 40, from the beginning we asked people to use the door buttons.

In Denver, passengers just stood there in front of the doors, until either someone shouted at them to push the button or they were carried to the next stop. Then they complained to elected officials. By the end of the first week the procedure of opening all doors at all stops was adopted. The exception is when there is heavy snow and/or extreme cold. Then the operator has to announce that passengers need to push the button.

 

[BCL]

The LRT door buttons are intended to save heat or cooling. In Edmonton, stopping at outdoor stations at which occasional temperatures could get down to minus 40, from the beginning we asked people to use the door buttons.

In Denver, passengers just stood there in front of the doors, until either someone shouted at them to push the button or they were carried to the next stop. Then they complained to elected officials. By the end of the first week the procedure of opening all doors at all stops was adopted. The exception is when there is heavy snow and/or extreme cold. Then the operator has to announce that passengers need to push the button.

Most with open/close have them on the outside too.

 

[Willbridge]

Most with open/close have them on the outside too.

We had the same problem in Denver from the outside. And in a thread a while ago I wrote about a nice couple from Lincoln, NE who had an extra 15 minute wait at our I=25 & Broadway Station because they couldn't believe that the operator on a cross-platform connection had re-opened the doors just for them. They discussed boarding, but had been warned by their Aurora friends who didn't ride that they would have a long wait.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Push buttons on doors seems to be fairly common in Europe. In the UK where in the older stock you had to lower the window and turn the handle from the outside to exit a carriage, having to push a button was an upgrade

 

[Willbridge]

Push buttons on doors seems to be fairly common in Europe. In the UK where in the older stock you had to lower the window and turn the handle from the outside to exit a carriage, having to push a button was an upgrade

Like this?

 

[jis]

In Paris on the Metro there used to be a mechanical little doohickey that had to be rotated to get the door to open. Now that has been replaced by a nice little button in the more modern stock. And the even more modern stuff has screen doors so that is an entirely different ball game. I wonder why US systems have shied away from screen doors, except in airport people movers.

 

[joelkfla]

In Paris on the Metro there used to be a mechanical little doohickey that had to be rotated to get the door to open. Now that has been replaced by a nice little button in the more modern stock. And the even more modern stuff has screen doors so that is an entirely different ball game. I wonder why US systems have shied away from screen doors, except in airport people movers.

Money. Most major systems in the U.S. were built before screen doors were a thing, and we all know how American cities hate to spend money on improving transit. I'm sure the cost of retrofitting NYC, Boston, or CHI would be enormous.

You could also make the same argument being made on the Free Transit thread: Why spend money on something like screen doors, when that money could be spent on improving operations?

 

[jis]

Money. Most major systems in the U.S. were built before screen doors were a thing, and we all know how American cities hate to spend money on improving transit. I'm sure the cost of retrofitting NYC, Boston, or CHI would be enormous.

You could also make the same argument being made on the Free Transit thread: Why spend money on something like screen doors, when that money could be spent on improving operations?

I know. It is all about what is it that we are optimizing. We have a penchant for optimizing the wrong things.

 

[BlackDiamond]

I wonder why US systems have shied away from screen doors, except in airport people movers.

Money. Most major systems in the U.S. were built before screen doors were a thing, and we all know how American cities hate to spend money on improving transit. I'm sure the cost of retrofitting NYC, Boston, or CHI would be enormous.

In NYC you also have the problem on some lines of multiple fleets with different door spacing. Eventually once they retire the longer cars things may get more standardized.

 

[jis]

In NYC you also have the problem on some lines of multiple fleets with different door spacing. Eventually once they retire the longer cars things may get more standardized.

You are correct. I don't think either the New York or the Boston systems or even Chicago for that matter are redeemable since they can barely get enough replacement rolling stock, let alone do any serious across the board changes of any sort beyond getting their signaling and control systems into the 21st Century. That of course by all means should be the first priority. But then again newer systems like WMATA or BART should have been able to be more modern in this sense, but again there is lack of political willingness to make these world class systems. Our collective loss.

 

[John Santos]

In Paris on the Metro there used to be a mechanical little doohickey that had to be rotated to get the door to open. Now that has been replaced by a nice little button in the more modern stock. And the even more modern stuff has screen doors so that is an entirely different ball game. I wonder why US systems have shied away from screen doors, except in airport people movers.

Screen doors? Doors with windows that have screens instead of glass? On a subway?

 

[jis]

Screen doors? Doors with windows that have screens instead of glass? On a subway?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_screen_doors

 

[John Santos]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_screen_doors

What a stupid name! "Screen door" is a term that has been in use for doors with screens in them for at least 150 years.

 

[joelkfla]

What a stupid name! "Screen door" is a term that has been in use for doors with screens in them for at least 150 years.

They sit outside the car doors, as a screen door sits outside the entry door of a house.

 

[BlackDiamond]

What a stupid name! "Screen door" is a term that has been in use for doors with screens in them for at least 150 years.

Those of us living in Northern Climates have "screen doors" with glass panes in them in the winter (which here in Northeast Maine is basically November to May ) although we tend to refer to them as "storm doors". We being lazy tend to leave the glass in all summer.

When I used to ride the old 1912 - 1928 vintage subway cars in Boston they had "screen doors" on the front of the car that were made of a heavy duty chicken wire like construction so the regular door could be open to provide ventilation in hot summer days. Was great when roaring through the tunnels, traction motors whining and that ozone scented cool air rushing in.

Getting back on topic I have also heard the platform "screen" doors referred to as platform edge doors which might be less confusing.

 

[jis]

Getting back on topic I have also heard the platform "screen" doors referred to as platform edge doors which might be less confusing.

Both terminology is used interchangeably though the "Screen" version seems to be used more predominently than the "Edge" version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_screen_doors#Platform_screen_doors_and_platform_edge_doors

 

[BlackDiamond]

Both terminology is used interchangeably though the "Screen" version seems to be used more predominently than the "Edge" version.

I guess "screen" in the sense of "keeping things e.g. passengers from falling on the tracks" rather than "keeping bugs and other small critters out".

 

[jis]

I guess "screen" in the sense of "keeping things e.g. passengers from falling on the tracks" rather than "keeping bugs and other small critters out".

Actually in tropical places like Kolkata Delhi and Singapore, earliest use of Screen Doors at overground stations was also to make it possible to air condition the platform areas where the ambient outside may range upto a very humid 90-100F. Incidentally they also work well in keeping bugs, specially mosquitos, out too.