Stop Tweeting About Us OR ELSE! NS vs. Amtrak

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Yeah Amtrak does some seemingly pretty weird stuff on the Corridor. But since I don't have all the info about what tracks are OOS at that time, I cannot vouch for it to be bad dispatching necessarily. Maybe they are just trying to do their best with what they have available.
 
Not sure if that was just a fluke, but at least the latest tweets are back at calling out the railroads.
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Crescent Train 19 which departed New York (NYP) on 4/5 is currently operating about 2 hr 50 min late due to Norfolk Southern Freight Train interference, signal issues, and speed restrictions along the route.

Looks like a "cover all bases" kind of tweet, but still happy that Amtrak is back on the attack. Hopefully this remain the case unless and until Norfolk Southern ceases to be a factor in passenger delays.
 
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As to being run around a hotshot train and good dispatching, there are some great dispatchers in the railroad industry. But I've also had my fair share of god awful ones too. A few months ago on 660 to NYP we got held at swift for a Transit train to come on the corridor and instead of putting NJT on A track at Secaucus they left them on the Main that Amtrak uses to pass by. To the point where the Engineer got on the radio and said "I thought A track was so we could pass Transit". That is a bad dispatching move. Or commonly referred to as "PPD" P*** Poor Dispatching.

Yeah Amtrak does some seemingly pretty weird stuff on the Corridor. But since I don't have all the info about what tracks are OOS at that time, I cannot vouch for it to be bad dispatching necessarily. Maybe they are just trying to do their best with what they have available.

There is a nothing weird about it and it is amazing that Jis has a better understanding of the probabilities than a railroader. However, most railroaders only look at "their' craft or "their" situation without regard to an entire situation, which often remains fluid.

So, allow me to educate Acela150 (who may want to pass this to the engineer of 660) on why "this was NOT a bad dispatching move."

First, let's look at Secaucus Jct station. The tracks are programmed based upon the flow of traffic. Outside of rush hour, the tracks are used for the direction of the flow of traffic. In this case, they use 2 track only to NYP since it is the only destination (as opposed to westbound train which have multiple destinations). This pattern must be adhered to as much as possible. The reason is based upon the short period of time between SEC-NYP. Tickets are not collected on the train. As such, passengers insert their tickets into a turnstile and descend to the platform. It is much like using an old subway token. Once it is used, it is gone. The passengers would have no means to go up and over to another track without tracking down and alerting passenger services, and making them manually open all of the gates (and it is basically an accessible gate so imagine a few hundred people squeezing through it). You'd delay the train.

As such, the NJT should remain on its programmed track. If anything, you could make an argument for running the Amtrak around the train in SEC. However, this only works if there aren't westbound train on the tracks.....and PSCC can handle an out of order train...because equally important: 660 is a WEEKEND only Keystone.

As such, Penn station is set up for single track operation. There is a wave of trains that depart NYP near the top of the hour while the inbound wave starts arriving towards the bottom of the hour. That means around 45mins after the hour to the top of hour, you have the outbound trains in the stations as the inbound trains are arriving. This requires a great deal of track space. You often have train double up on tracks or you have to wait for an outbound to make sure there is space for an inbound.

If you were to operate 660 around the NJT, and now it has to wait for a specific track (remember, they often turn the keystones on the lower platforms in NYP on weekends), you'll block the NJT train, which will need a longer platform.

This of course leads to the final piece. OTP. 660 is due into NYP behind the NJT. If you were to run it ahead of the NJT, and PSCC can't handle it out of order, you've now lost the NJT. While leaving it in timetable order will likely allow both trains to arrive in tolerance.

So Acela150, you and the engineer of 660 not only don't know if is is the dispatcher on the High Line or the dispatcher controlling NYP that made the decision to...you know...run the trains according to the schedule in the timetable. Whomever made the decision, it is EXACTLY what the schedule calls for and that is based upon the greater needs of Penn Station.
 
Thirdrail, as I recall the west end concourse at Secaucus across the lower level allows passengers to cross over from any LL platform to any other LL platform without crossing any barriers. Has that changed since I was last there? Of course a hapless new comer to the Secaucus labyrinth probably would not know to walk to the western end of the platform to find the escalators to that concourse.

On dispatching the High Line through Swift, Portal, Lack, Erie, Allied, Bergen and onto A, I have played around on a train dispatching simulator using then current timetable, and Thirdrail you are absolutely right. It is absolutely critical to run trains in timetable order that are within tolerance to avoid a complete unholy mess. If an overtake is in the timetable, that is what you do. If not you don't, unless something falls outside tolerance. At that point you play one of the alternate playbooks. You don;t just do what you think works for you locally.

To a casual observer it may appear weird that they are held at Swift while an MTD comes in ahead of you and that happens at times because of the timetable padding that exists in that area. Happens both ways, i.e. an NEC train held for an MTD or an MTD held for one or more NEC, and that inevitably leaves the folks in the train that is holding, fuming. Little do they realize some of the mess that will befall them if they were not held. The arrivals into Penn Station and routing to the correct platform track is carefully choreographed, and its effect stretches all the way back to Swift and even Dock and Rea. You cannot just change things because a train has shown up at a Home signal.

MODERATOR NOTE: This post discusses 2 different topics and, at the suggestion of the poster, discussions regarding Train Dispatching Simulators were moved to the Railroad Simulation forum/Train Dispatcher Simulation. Rather than cut and paste this post, this moderator opted to copy the entire post and duplicate it so that the post will appear in 2 different threads.
 
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Thirdrail, as I recall the west end concourse at Secaucus across the lower level allows passengers to cross over from any LL platform to any other LL platform without crossing any barriers. Has that changed since I was last there? Of course a hapless new comer to the Secaucus labyrinth probably would not know to walk to the western end of the platform to find the escalators to that concourse.

Hmm. I believe you are correct. I haven't been in there in a few years but based upon a few videos I just watched, it seems like that is possible.

Still, by the time you make that decision, Swift is less than a few minutes away. A bad time to make that sort of decision. As previously indicated, it is better to run the Amtrak around the NJT in the station.

At any rate, the point is you never know what is going on. I made a post last year about 20 being held for a few hours in a siding behind a freight because there were no available sidings for 70 miles. Among the south bound trains it held for was train 19.

In the past, hosts have nitpicked the rule saying the Amtrak caught the freight and therefore they rule about meeting at junctions didn't apply. This occurred during the mail wars. The law states they must average 60mph and the freights slapped 60mph restrictions on the passengers trains.

If something like that happened again, there wouldn't be any overtakes. This is what BNSF has been screaming about. I hope they don't push this issue.
 
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