Sudden Cancellation of Empire Builder from July 12th to ~July 16th? *Update* Maybe have been a whoopsie due to planned track maintenance!

[zephyr17]

A supervisor for the Builder is the source, if that's good.

I'm not here to debate IT issues either. Just to pass on the news that the train will be operating in its entirety as originally planned.

Thanks, wasn't really questioning, just wanted to know the source. And yes, that is a good source.

I do not expect you to know or debate IT issues. The IT part of comment wasn't intended to be directed specifically at you, just that even assuming your info was good (which I did, I just wanted to know where you got it. Trust but verify), there are still IT issues at Amtrak for general discussion.

 

[Triley]

Thanks, wasn't really questioning, just wanted to know the source. And yes, that is a good source.

I do not expect you to know or debate IT issues. The IT part of comment wasn't intended to be directed specifically at you, just that even assuming your info was good (which I did, I just wanted to know where you got it. Trust but verify), there are still IT issues at Amtrak for general discussion.

Many people on AU will vouch for me, as will my coworkers and supervisors. Nothing wrong with verifying, but I promise you, you don't need to do that with me.

 

[nuger93]

How immediately did it show up as canceled, once you made the change?

It did. Like as soon as the ticket showed up. Instead of a QR code to scan, I got a 'Service has been cancelled'. I also canceled simply because I don't trust that BNSF won't mess up in those 4 days (4-5days seems about right for track work to still allow train flow). And I have more of a time commitment to keep coming back.

I'm surprised it shows as canceled vs just having a service alert for the bus bridge attach to the ticket (when I went NB on thr coast Starlight, there was a service alert attached about something minor)

Alright all, I checked in to it. We can end the doom and gloom. There was going to be bus bridge due to track work, but the track work was rescheduled for hours the train doesn't run.

In short, service will run as scheduled!

See, THIS right here is why I posted in this forum. 9 times outta 10, one of us is currently on a train and can ask someone on the ground, Since the Amtrak sales agents likely wouldn't know that unless Amtrak put out a press release Amtrak was quite helpful through it all, was willing to do the partial trip refund so I could fly outta MSP instead.

I think moments like this is why some in congress think Amtrak needs in house community outreach and an overhaul of PR.

But I mean after what happened with American Airlines, one can't really dog Amtrak on this

I'm trying to see if I can make a change to the title to have them reference the update.

But I dunno, after hearing about the Monster trains from the train rep in Montana during a recent NARP webinar, I don't trust BNSF to not mess it up somehow. I have a 2 day buffer going to MSP so I'm not worried going that direction. (The Monster trains are like 14,000 feet long, essentially almost 3 miles long on their own, 3 Locos up front, 2 in the middle and 2 at the rear. It tends to be either oil, grain or coal being hauled. The rep didn't mind the WHAT, it was the HOW, because apparently those trains have issues a lot and it's threatened to stall the Empire Builder a few times).

 

[zephyr17]

Many people on AU will vouch for me, as will my coworkers and supervisors. Nothing wrong with verifying, but I promise you, you don't need to do that with me.

Sorry, as I posted on another thread just now, I was unaware you worked for Amtrak, and currently on the Builder.

 

[zephyr17]

But I dunno, after hearing about the Monster trains from the train rep in Montana during a recent NARP webinar, I don't trust BNSF to not mess it up somehow. I have a 2 day buffer going to MSP so I'm not worried going that direction. (The Monster trains are like 14,000 feet long, essentially almost 3 miles long on their own, 3 Locos up front, 2 in the middle and 2 at the rear. It tends to be either oil, grain or coal being hauled. The rep didn't mind the WHAT, it was the HOW, because apparently those trains have issues a lot and it's threatened to stall the Empire Builder a few times).

Yeah, I was on that same webinar. I was disappointed to hear that. BNSF has not been generally embracing PSR, but that sounds like they are moving that way now

 

[quilttours]

So i have an upcoming trip to Minnesota via the Empire builder out of Seattle coming up (leave Seattle on the 7th, have a Roomette in car 31). It was supposed to be a round trip, but i logged into the app yesterday to find out the return leg on the 12th from MSP to SEA was cancelled with nothing more than a "Service Has Been Cancelled' on the e-ticket agenda.

I got through to an Amtrak phone CSR agent, who tried getting me on a train within 2 days before or after that date and even the Amtrak side wasnt showing a non cancelled train from MSP to Seattle until the late 16th run. Amtrak refunded me for the return leg (we are currently trying to alternate transportation out of MSP now)
Amtrak social media isnt 100% whats happening but has said they'll pass it on if they find out (i mentioned that i have a NARP membership and had been writing my representive and senators about the infrastructure bill's Amtrak provisions)


What even more strange is that you can still book the run on the 12th, but the ticket will automatically show as cancelled service. when it gets to the upcoming trips page.

I'm asumming, from an experience in 2020 (prior to Amtrak going 3 times a week), that part of the issue stems from the Northbound Coast Starlight interuption, as when i took the NB coast starlight to Tacoma, the conductors told us they were the next days Eastbound Empire Builder crew. So im guessing there may be an issue with crew relief due to the loss of the NB Coast Starlight past Sacramento (as the crews dont get to switch out or rest as much now).

Other than that, barring either an issue with BNSF or with the tracks what else would cuase such a sudden canceling of so many routes so close to departure for an LD train?

This is what scares me about travel on Amtrak. I own a tour company and we used to do a long Amtrak trip each year. This year, I thought I had my tickets and when I called back needing some info, i was informed my trip had been cancelled. I had reservations for 40 people. The agent didn't understand it either and then she saw that they had reduced the train service. Where was my call? If I had 40 tickets, shouldn't someone call to let me know? it sounded like they never planned on calling. i would have sold that trip and had to call everyone at a late date to tell them no tickets...one year I went out of MSP and they had moved the station location 3 weeks earlier..and you guessed it, no notice and no update. There are no phone numbers to call these stations..we almost missed our luggage handling. If I were to get my group to Seattle, and then find that I didn't have a return, what would we do?

 

[railiner]

Good question. I imagine that you normally deal with some kind of group sales person? Have you discussed these issues with them? I would be most interested in hearing what, if anything, they have to say about it....

 

[Brian Battuello]

It is getting a bit weird out there, between track maintenance, fires and general bureaucratic screw-ups. Even the US airlines, bad as they are, make an effort to rebook passengers.

I have tickets from Boston to Philadelphia and back for this Thursday and Friday. Wish me luck!

 

[west point]

last weekend for awhile the Crescent showed not operating sun - Wednesday then magically showed operating

 

[Willbridge]

I edited my post - I didn't know there was a Spokane Airport station (at least on the app) and had mistakenly selected that instead of SPK.

It has been a Thruway bus stop.

 

[nuger93]

This is what scares me about travel on Amtrak. I own a tour company and we used to do a long Amtrak trip each year. This year, I thought I had my tickets and when I called back needing some info, i was informed my trip had been cancelled. I had reservations for 40 people. The agent didn't understand it either and then she saw that they had reduced the train service. Where was my call? If I had 40 tickets, shouldn't someone call to let me know? it sounded like they never planned on calling. i would have sold that trip and had to call everyone at a late date to tell them no tickets...one year I went out of MSP and they had moved the station location 3 weeks earlier..and you guessed it, no notice and no update. There are no phone numbers to call these stations..we almost missed our luggage handling. If I were to get my group to Seattle, and then find that I didn't have a return, what would we do?

I mean if you are in Seattle, I'd get the refund, take the light rail from the nearby station to Sea-Tac (goes from UW to Sea-Tac), then decide if you are saying overnight near Sea-Tac or trying to fly out. (I've worked crisis intervention for homeless and sexual assault survivors so I would be great in said crisis situation).

But it isn't just Amtrak. A few weeks ago, someone I knew from high school was caught up in the American Airlines flub up.

It's part of why I always get the travel insurance. 99.9% of the time, I never need it, but like if I was with you and that group, having that insurance could mean the difference between getting stuck in Seattle or being able to get a get a plane/bus out (or even the Cascades to Portland if you really don't want to deal with Sea Tac).

Whats amazing is that yesterday (7/3), I actually managed to get a direct tweet from Amtrak on a tweet I sent that says as of today the Empire Builder is running. Honestly, if Amtrak is willing to pay me in Beechers Mac and Cheese a couple times a month, I'd be happy to help them handle these never ending crisis (studies have shown that people who have successfully worked in crisis intervention jobs are actually better at PR, Customer Servixe and risk management than most upper management is)

I think it doesn't help that Amtrak has a state of good repair backlog totaling to $30 Billion (I think like 25 Billion is on the NEC alone. And thats not counting improvements, thats just to bring it 'standard'). And they keep only getting like 2-4 Billion a year to operate.

 

[Sidney]

Imagine the people who bought that $299 rail pass and one of their trains is the Starlight. I haveva big circle trip coming up in September and Sea to Sac is one of my segments. Why can't Amtrak provide bus transportation between Eugene and Sacramento?

 

[jis]

I think it doesn't help that Amtrak has a state of good repair backlog totaling to $30 Billion (I think like 25 Billion is on the NEC alone. And thats not counting improvements, thats just to bring it 'standard'). And they keep only getting like 2-4 Billion a year to operate.

If you dig down enough you will discover that very little of Amtrak's annual appropriations are actually used for large Capital Projects. The small contributions it makes to various station upgrades etc. comes from this pot, but the amounts are usually not very large.They are funded through separate appropriations. They get a smidge over $2 Billion per year these days for their general capital and operating grant most of which goes into day to day operations and mainteance to cover the gap over and above income from ticket sales.

Strictly speaking the NEC backlog, though for accounting purposes may be counted against Amtrak, in actuality is about 1/3rd Amtrak's at best, given the proportion of users of the NEC. This is reflected in the actual funding proportions when they come about for taking care of these backlogs. For example, the Portal North Bridge is being funded mostly by NJ with NJ and federal (FTA) money together with a small contribution from Amtrak and managed by NJT. The Gateway Tunnel has Amtrak coming up with something less than a quarter from its own sources and grants. There is a joint federal grant to the project, not to Amtrak, and there are huge chunks paid by the States involved. Last I looked it was the Port Authority of NY and NJ that was the coordinating agency for this project. Moynihan Train Hall at New York Penn Station is primarily a New York State project with small contributions from several others.

But of course, these things have been hashed a dozen times before in various threads, and this thread is probably not an appropriate place to continue this line of discussion since this has almost nothing to do with Empire Builder. Having a well paid but incompetent management team cannot be fixed by throwing more money at it.

 

[nuger93]

If you dig down enough you will discover that very little of Amtrak's annual appropriations are actually used for large Capital Projects. The small contributions it makes to various station upgrades etc. comes from this pot, but the amounts are usually not very large.They are funded through separate appropriations. They get a smidge over $2 Billion per year these days for their general capital and operating grant most of which goes into day to day operations and mainteance to cover the gap over and above income from ticket sales.

Strictly speaking the NEC backlog, though for accounting purposes may be counted against Amtrak, in actuality is about 1/3rd Amtrak's at best, given the proportion of users of the NEC. This is reflected in the actual funding proportions when they come about for taking care of these backlogs. For example, the Portal North Bridge is being funded mostly by NJ with NJ and federal (FTA) money together with a small contribution from Amtrak and managed by NJT. The Gateway Tunnel has Amtrak coming up with something less than a quarter from its own sources and grants. There is a joint federal grant to the project, not to Amtrak, and there are huge chunks paid by the States involved. Last I looked it was the Port Authority of NY and NJ that was the coordinating agency for this project. Moynihan Train Hall at New York Penn Station is primarily a New York State project with small contributions from several others.

But of course, these things have been hashed a dozen times before in various threads, and this thread is probably not an appropriate place to continue this line of discussion since this has almost nothing to do with Empire Builder. Having a well paid but incompetent management team cannot be fixed by throwing more money at it.

I mean it'll be hard to get what we see with states like Maryland, NY and NJ stepping up with the NEC, in a place like North Dakota Montana etc. The Empire Builder could use some upgrades,but without the stronger plans to avoid BNSFs PSR, it won't do much good either.

I'm waiting to see a cancellation of the builder because a Monster train derails somewhere where there is only single tracking.

 

[jis]

I mean it'll be hard to get what we see with states like Maryland, NY and NJ stepping up with the NEC, in a place like North Dakota Montana etc. The Empire Builder could use some upgrades,but without the stronger plans to avoid BNSFs PSR, it won't do much good either.

I'm waiting to see a cancellation of the builder because a Monster train derails somewhere where there is only single tracking.

Suffice it to say that they. and other Class Is, all have managed to pull that off even without monster trains in the past.