Superliner Baggage Cars?

[seat38a]

Was there ever any plans to build Superliner Baggage Cars when the Superliners were ordered? The LD trains with Superliners that I have seen have the single level baggage cars attached to the Superliners. Was there ever any plans to create a Superliners with upper level revenue seating and lower level baggage for the LD fleet similar to the CAB cars used on the corridor services?

 

[Blackwolf]

They were not only planned, but were built. Superliner Coach-Baggage cars exist, and are rolling on the rails right now at this moment. I don't know the real reason on why they seemed to have failed as being the preferred baggage car solution for Superliner consists, but I do know a lot of them were converted into Smoking Coaches at some point.

 

[oregon pioneer]

Some of them are in use on the PDX leg of the Empire Builder!

 

[Willie1946]

The Texas Eagle uses the coach baggage almost exclusively now. I suppose it turns and goes to New Orleans on the City of New Orleans as well.

 

[ehbowen]

On our Big Family Trip to California in '06, we ran with a Superliner Coach/Baggage one way and a full baggage car the other. Having caught a glimpse of the inside through an open door at a baggage stop (El Paso?) I think the reason they are not used more often may simply be capacity. The train was not overly full, but that baggage compartment was packed to the gills. (Of course, our 20 pieces of checked luggage probably didn't help!)

 

[Willie1946]

Many years ago, when the Capitol Corridor Trains were using Superliners, I boarded in Bakersfield. They did not offer checked baggage but they had one of these coach baggage cars on the train. We boarded through the baggage door and placed our luggage on one of the racks in the baggage compartment then up the stairs to our seats. I can't remember if i tipped myself or not. <G>

BN

 

[seat38a]

Wow thanks for the info. On all the literatures on the Superliners that I have read, they left the coach baggage cars off the list.

 

[battalion51]

I'm not quite sure what year it was they started converting Baggage Coaches over to Smoking Coaches, but a large number had the conversion made years ago. For most Superliner trains this was the spot where smokers were allowed to light up while the train was en route (Auto Train never had these as they had their custom lounges with a smoking room). The challenge with the Smoking Coaches was the ventilation system was never done right like it was on the Auto Train lounges or Amfleet II lounges that had the penalty box. As a result the entire car reeked of cigarette smoke. As time went by this became more of an issue as the number of smokers dropped. The cars were converted back to their original purposed beginning sometime around 2005.

Part of the reasoning to bring them back to their original purpose was the number of available full baggage cars began dropping due to fleet age and lack of replacements. There was a time where baggage cars were so plentiful that you'd see more than one on a train during the mail days as some were used interchangeably with the Material Handling Cars. As the mail business went away and baggage cars went away the fleet of baggage cars got stretched. Some routes that required a full baggage car (like the east coast single level trains) obviously maintained their cars. Routes that had less volume like the Texas Eagle, City of New Orleans, and Portland section of the Empire Builder gave up their full baggage car so service could be maintained on as many trains as possible. Don't forget there was a time where trains like the Vermonter and Ethan Allen Express had baggage service, unfortunately that time has passed.

 

[NW cannonball]

Wow thanks for the info. On all the literatures on the Superliners that I have read, they left the coach baggage cars off the list.

There's many Coach-Bags running on various Superliner routes.The baggage space is mostly wasted.

The one I slept in on the CS last year, for example. Zero Amtrak baggage, but I couldn't sleep in coach - (my ankle was acting up, the lounge lizards had taken over the lounge) -- but the rather dirty carpet in the AmBag was totally welcome. By morning there were at least a half-dozen coach pax sleeping on the otherwise-unused floor in the very drafty Bag part of the Coach-Bag.

I understand that there are a very few overnight trains in Japan that rent a space on the carpet. I'd buy that, at the right price, if it was on offer.

 

[railiner]

Wow thanks for the info. On all the literatures on the Superliners that I have read, they left the coach baggage cars off the list.

There's many Coach-Bags running on various Superliner routes.The baggage space is mostly wasted.

The one I slept in on the CS last year, for example. Zero Amtrak baggage, but I couldn't sleep in coach - (my ankle was acting up, the lounge lizards had taken over the lounge) -- but the rather dirty carpet in the AmBag was totally welcome. By morning there were at least a half-dozen coach pax sleeping on the otherwise-unused floor in the very drafty Bag part of the Coach-Bag.

I understand that there are a very few overnight trains in Japan that rent a space on the carpet. I'd buy that, at the right price, if it was on offer.

Carpeted floors? IIRC, as originally used, the 31000-series Coach Baggage cars, had a rubber flooring material in the bag room, like in the vestibules. Perhaps these were carpeted during the conversion to lounges, and left that way when converted back? I recall these cars also had shelving that was carpeted, and could be folded away, to meet the loading requirements as needed...

In operation, I recall that on the CZ, these cars came in very handy for ski groups going to WIP, where there was no checked baggage service.

 

[seat38a]

On our Big Family Trip to California in '06, we ran with a Superliner Coach/Baggage one way and a full baggage car the other. Having caught a glimpse of the inside through an open door at a baggage stop (El Paso?) I think the reason they are not used more often may simply be capacity. The train was not overly full, but that baggage compartment was packed to the gills. (Of course, our 20 pieces of checked luggage probably didn't help!)

I can see that happening. It really amazes me how little usable floorspace there are on the lower levels of the Superliners and Surfliner trains. Way too much of the bottom floor gets taken up by equipment room on both sides of the car.

 

[MattW]

On our Big Family Trip to California in '06, we ran with a Superliner Coach/Baggage one way and a full baggage car the other. Having caught a glimpse of the inside through an open door at a baggage stop (El Paso?) I think the reason they are not used more often may simply be capacity. The train was not overly full, but that baggage compartment was packed to the gills. (Of course, our 20 pieces of checked luggage probably didn't help!)

I can see that happening. It really amazes me how little usable floorspace there are on the lower levels of the Superliners and Surfliner trains. Way too much of the bottom floor gets taken up by equipment room on both sides of the car.

I'm not so sure it's "too much," that stuff has to go somewhere. You don't notice it on the single-level trains because they have roughly 48 inches of space under the car to stash things in what is otherwise completely unused space. You only notice it on the Superliners because the lower level is noticeably shorter than the upper level. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of railcar design than I could chime in, but I believe all the plumbing, electrical and even some brake components have to fit in those two end-spaces so there isn't much "wasted" space.

 

[seat38a]

On our Big Family Trip to California in '06, we ran with a Superliner Coach/Baggage one way and a full baggage car the other. Having caught a glimpse of the inside through an open door at a baggage stop (El Paso?) I think the reason they are not used more often may simply be capacity. The train was not overly full, but that baggage compartment was packed to the gills. (Of course, our 20 pieces of checked luggage probably didn't help!)

I can see that happening. It really amazes me how little usable floorspace there are on the lower levels of the Superliners and Surfliner trains. Way too much of the bottom floor gets taken up by equipment room on both sides of the car.

I'm not so sure it's "too much," that stuff has to go somewhere. You don't notice it on the single-level trains because they have roughly 48 inches of space under the car to stash things in what is otherwise completely unused space. You only notice it on the Superliners because the lower level is noticeably shorter than the upper level. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of railcar design than I could chime in, but I believe all the plumbing, electrical and even some brake components have to fit in those two end-spaces so there isn't much "wasted" space.

On the single level AmCan's they have unused area they can stash all the equipments?

 

[seat38a]

Was going through my pictures from the 4th of July trip up to San Francisco and realized based on the picture above provided by Blackwolf that the CZ that we ran into in Martinez had one of those baggage coach cars.

P1000535 by seat38a, on Flickr

 

[jis]

CZ almost always has a Coach-Baggage, possibly to accommodate skid and other gear that people carry along for camping and such up in the mountains.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Ryan]

On our Big Family Trip to California in '06, we ran with a Superliner Coach/Baggage one way and a full baggage car the other. Having caught a glimpse of the inside through an open door at a baggage stop (El Paso?) I think the reason they are not used more often may simply be capacity. The train was not overly full, but that baggage compartment was packed to the gills. (Of course, our 20 pieces of checked luggage probably didn't help!)

I can see that happening. It really amazes me how little usable floorspace there are on the lower levels of the Superliners and Surfliner trains. Way too much of the bottom floor gets taken up by equipment room on both sides of the car.

I'm not so sure it's "too much," that stuff has to go somewhere. You don't notice it on the single-level trains because they have roughly 48 inches of space under the car to stash things in what is otherwise completely unused space. You only notice it on the Superliners because the lower level is noticeably shorter than the upper level. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of railcar design than I could chime in, but I believe all the plumbing, electrical and even some brake components have to fit in those two end-spaces so there isn't much "wasted" space.

On the single level AmCan's they have unused area they can stash all the equipments?

Yes, it's all under the car. Can't do that on a Superliner (or more correctly they do, but a part of that space is set aside for passenger use).

Edit: Here's a picture where you can see all of that "stuff". On a Superliner it's inside the car body:

 

[jis]

The lower level is shorter than the upper level in Superliners primarily because those pesky trucks on which the car rides take up room. Most of the equipment is in cabinets between the trucks and the upper level.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

On the non-Baggage Superliner Coaches there is a small compartment on the lower level which is accessible from the outside and can be used to store a few items that are a bit too big to go in the luggage racks. I have seen the Conductors on the Heartland Flyer use it a time or 2.

 

[railiner]

On the non-Baggage Superliner Coaches there is a small compartment on the lower level which is accessible from the outside and can be used to store a few items that are a bit too big to go in the luggage racks. I have seen the Conductors on the Heartland Flyer use it a time or 2.

Those compartments are also handy for storing ski's....you can cram in quite a few....

 

[railiner]

As for a shortened lower level on bilevel cars.....the exception to this are the cars used by the cruiselines on the Alaska RR. These are full double deck cars whose design was originally derived from commuter 'gallery' cars. The lower level is at standard single level car height, with the upper level above that. The passage from car to car is on the lower level. These cars however, are considerably taller overall than Superliner's, and may not fit Amtrak's clearance requirements...

 

[seat38a]

As for a shortened lower level on bilevel cars.....the exception to this are the cars used by the cruiselines on the Alaska RR. These are full double deck cars whose design was originally derived from commuter 'gallery' cars. The lower level is at standard single level car height, with the upper level above that. The passage from car to car is on the lower level. These cars however, are considerably taller overall than Superliner's, and may not fit Amtrak's clearance requirements...

I would think this type of layout would be more efficient in space. Not sure about any center of gravity issue or clearance but with all the double stacked containers these days, I would not think clearance is a problem.

 

[PerRock]

Technically speaking the lower level of the Bombardier BiLevels are the same size as the upper levels; because both levels come together to make a shortened mid-level area above the trucks.

I'm curious now as to how the levels are laid out in the TGV Duplexs and the 2-story Shinkansens. The 2-Story SBB trains (I think DB owns some as well) are similar to the Superliners if I recall correctly. England's SR's 2-level cars were set up like Slumber coaches, with compartments staggered on top of each other.

peter

 

[jis]

TGV Duplexes are set up like the Bombardier Multi-levels. The entry vestibule is the middle level. One climbs up or down to the main seating areas. Same is true of two story Shinkansens. both are high platform trains.

 

[PerRock]

ah here is a diagram.

peter

 

[railiner]

Those "duplex" designs remind me of the old, thirties era Long Island RR "double decker's"....those had a standard height vestibule at each end, and aisle connecting them, with seats grouped into alternating upper and lower open compartments, a few steps up or down from the aisle.....