SWC grades

[KmH]

I think I read somewhere, here on AU or elsewhere, that the Southwest Chief route has the steepest passenger train grades in the US.

If I'm remembering correctly the grades were 3% and were in the Raton Pass area?

I know on I-40 west of Needles, CA the grade on I-40 was pretty steep.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Really? I would have thought the CZ west of DEN is steeper.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I think I read somewhere, here on AU or elsewhere, that the Southwest Chief route has the steepest passenger train grades in the US.

If I'm remembering correctly the grades were 3% and were in the Raton Pass area?

I know on I-40 west of Needles, CA the grade on I-40 was petty steep.

I believe the grade may be 3.1%.

Really? I would have thought the CZ west of DEN is steeper.

It has a higher elevation but that doesn't necessarily mean it is a steep grade to achieve that elevation.

 

[KmH]

Really? I would have thought the CZ west of DEN is steeper.

Before the Moffat Tunnel was completed the trains had to climb/descend 4% grades to get over the Continental Divide at Rollins Pass.

It is my understanding the steepest grades on the CZ route once the Moffat Tunnel was completed, and all other western Amtrak routes except the SWC route, are at most 2%.

Part of the reason the CZ takes 9 hours longer to go 173 more miles than the SWC is because the CZ route has more and longer grades to negotiate which slows the CZ's average speed,

 

[PRR 60]

Really? I would have thought the CZ west of DEN is steeper.

Before the Moffat Tunnel was completed the trains had to climb/descend 4% grades to get over the Continental Divide at Rollins Pass.

It is my understanding the steepest grades on the CZ route once the Moffat Tunnel was completed, and all other western Amtrak routes except the SWC route, are at most 2%.

Part of the reason the CZ takes 9 hours longer to go 173 more miles than the SWC is because the CZ route has more and longer grades to negotiate which slows the CZ's average speed,

Grades have very little influence on permitted passenger train speeds. Route curvature is the primary factor that limits speed, and that is the issue that results in the lower average speed of the Zephyr.

 

[railiner]

Really? I would have thought the CZ west of DEN is steeper.

Before the Moffat Tunnel was completed the trains had to climb/descend 4% grades to get over the Continental Divide at Rollins Pass.
It is my understanding the steepest grades on the CZ route once the Moffat Tunnel was completed, and all other western Amtrak routes except the SWC route, are at most 2%.

Part of the reason the CZ takes 9 hours longer to go 173 more miles than the SWC is because the CZ route has more and longer grades to negotiate which slows the CZ's average speed,

The old D&SL used a series of switchbacks to conquer that tortuous route...there was a great MGM silent melodrama, called "The White Desert", that was filmed at Corona, the summit....great scenes of rotary snow plows and steam locomotives...highly recommended to see, if you can find it somewhere...

 

[neroden]

There are street railways with steeper grades. But if you mean intercity, then yes.

 

[KmH]

The Raton Pass page on Wikipedia says the grades are, or were, as much as 3.5%:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raton_Pass#Railroad_Route

 

[KmH]

Really? I would have thought the CZ west of DEN is steeper.

Before the Moffat Tunnel was completed the trains had to climb/descend 4% grades to get over the Continental Divide at Rollins Pass.

It is my understanding the steepest grades on the CZ route once the Moffat Tunnel was completed, and all other western Amtrak routes except the SWC route, are at most 2%.

Part of the reason the CZ takes 9 hours longer to go 173 more miles than the SWC is because the CZ route has more and longer grades to negotiate which slows the CZ's average speed,

Grades have very little influence on permitted passenger train speeds. Route curvature is the primary factor that limits speed, and that is the issue that results in the lower average speed of the Zephyr.

"Permitted train speeds."

No doubt they don't want the train falling off the tracks on a curve.

What speed is the CZ permitted to go on a 2% downgrade with no curves?

I would think the downgrade stopping distance would be taken into consideration when they decide on the permitted speed.

Many downgrades on the Interstates have reduced permitted speeds for over-the-road trucks. Sometimes the permitted speed is based on the total truck weight.

While the CZ may be permitted to go fast on a 2% upgrade, as a practical matter, how fast can 2 P-42's pull themselves and up to 12 or 13 additional cars up a straight 2% grade?

 

[amtkstn]

Years ago when the SWC on a daily basis was ten to some days 20 car of passenger cars and mail, it added a third locomotive between La Junta and ALQ. These days it is only 10 cars long that 2 P42's have not problem getting over Raton.

 

[CCC1007]

Years ago when the SWC on a daily basis was ten to some days 20 car of passenger cars and mail, it added a third locomotive between La Junta and ALQ. These days it is only 10 cars long that 2 P42's have not problem getting over Raton.

Well, in the later years the chief would be up to 45 cars and as many as 5 locomotives to conquer raton pass.