Tehachapi: The Report

[Rob_C]

Cool report!

Any idea what happened to the PPC? What was going on in what looks like a second diner?

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Cool report!
Any idea what happened to the PPC? What was going on in what looks like a second diner?

Thanks for reminding me to discuss the PPC situation.

Reading here and there about the refurbished Pacific Parlour Cars, I thought the train had one. Heavily disappointed. "What the hell is this?" But learned that it was not a PPC at all, but a "diner lite" car. Still heavily disappointed, and said so out loud: "THIS CAR STINKS!!" Laughter all around, and nobody disagreed.

Walked through the beast several times, and complained on every occasion. It sucked, and there was no way I was gonna eat there. My view may be somewhat colored by the fact that this is where I ran into the highly insular railfans playing cards, ignoring the scenery, treating me as ignorant, and generally being jerks.

Sleeper attendant happened to be in the Diner Lite when I loudly proclaimed about the car stinking. Not meaning the actual smell, but the car as whole. It bit. She mistakenly thought I was talking about her (and my) car. When I went back later she was spraying the sleeper with some kind of air freshener stuff. "What are you doing?" "You said the car stinks, so I'm trying to make it smell better." "I didn't mean THIS car!" She said, "But it smells like train." "Hey, I LIKE the smell of train." She lightly slapped me upside the head and called me a name I can't repeat here.

All in good fun.

EDIT: The Diner Lite garbage car was only a pathetic stand-in for a PPC. Still a full dining car on the train. And still lame chicken.

 

[Rob_C]

Thanks for the info! Traveling the Starlate in a couple weeks and wanted to gauge my chances of getting a real PPC at least one way. Sounds like either they don't have enough PPC's for all four train sets or maybe they're having trouble with them? Were they doing the wine tasting in the Diner-lite?

Cheers,

Rob

 

[RTOlson]

Was the Diner-lite a Superliner car? I haven't heard of Diner-lite and Superliner together, unless one is referring to the Cross-Country Cafe. However, if it was the CCC, why not call it that? Is there another type of car out there? The jargon gets to me sometimes.

Nonetheless, I greatly enjoyed your report. It was interesting to read that the train was running late given the three hours of dwell time that was built into the schedule at SAC.

 

[printman2000]

Was the Diner-lite a Superliner car? I haven't heard of Diner-lite and Superliner together, unless one is referring to the Cross-Country Cafe. However, if it was the CCC, why not call it that? Is there another type of car out there? The jargon gets to me sometimes.
Nonetheless, I greatly enjoyed your report. It was interesting to read that the train was running late given the three hours of dwell time that was built into the schedule at SAC.

Same car. CCC is Amtrak's official name for the Superliner diner-lite. Diner-lite is the unofficial name.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

CCC, Diner Lite. Potato poTAHto. Just didn't like the thing. Far preferable as a PPC replacement woulda been the cafe car I saw the next day on the San Joaquin back south.

Oh, and I knew what a PPC looked like before the relaunch of the Coast Starlight, but hadn't seen one since they'd been shopped and "refurbished" at Beech Grove, so wasn't sure what to expect. First reaction to Diner Lite/CCC: "Where are the upper windows?" Stupid, yeah, but it was hate at first sight. I'd never seen a CCC/Diner Lite before, and was thinking it was a "refurbished" PPC and that Amtrak and Beech Grove had seriously botched the operation. Just don't like the thing, and feel sorry for anybody on a train that has one.

 

[RTOlson]

But Diner-lite and CCC aren't exactly the same thing, are they? Isn't Diner-lite that horrible dining experience that's on Lake Shore Limited? And hasn't it also been used at times in reference to Simplified Dining Service in general?

The way I read it, the same word could mean one of three things -- all relating to different parts of Amtrak's dining services. And it's not really a potato-potato conversion -- more like comparing sweet potatoes to tater tots to the act of peeling potatoes.

For clarity's sake, I would use the one word that easily and clearly identifies the specific type of car -- Cross-Country Cafe. Now, I was going to say "best identifies," but I think few would claim that CCC is the best name for the car.

Again, I really appreciate the information. Maybe I'm being a little bit nitpicky, but it's seems really easy to slip in to confusing rail jargon that takes some time to figure out.

For example, I am looking forward to my trip from CIC to SLC via DAV on CS and CZ but I'm worried about OTP and friendliness of the OBS (and bummed that I can't use the PPC). I've also heard some things about SDS in the diner, but at least it's not CCC.

 

[dan72]

SECTION 8
Not paying attention? I said no Section 8. Military folk will get the joke.

So, I guess Klinger would be a disappointed railfan!

Sorry, couldn't resist..

Thanks for the great report (and humor)!

Dan

 

[the_traveler]

SECTION 8
Not paying attention? I said no Section 8. Military folk will get the joke.

So, I guess Klinger would be a disappointed railfan!

He's probably the one I see standing by the tracks in Toledo waiting for the CL and LSL to go by! :lol: (He "came" from Toledo, right?)

 

[dan72]

SECTION 8
Not paying attention? I said no Section 8. Military folk will get the joke.

So, I guess Klinger would be a disappointed railfan!

He's probably the one I see standing by the tracks in Toledo waiting for the CL and LSL to go by! :lol: (He "came" from Toledo, right?)

Either that or check out a Mudhens game!

 

[the_traveler]

SECTION 8
Not paying attention? I said no Section 8. Military folk will get the joke.

So, I guess Klinger would be a disappointed railfan!

He's probably the one I see standing by the tracks in Toledo waiting for the CL and LSL to go by! :lol: (He "came" from Toledo, right?)

Either that or check out a Mudhens game!

So that's the ugly chick I saw at the game who always stuck out, and never got to first base! (Maybe if he rode the Silver Streak! :lol: )

 

[Steve4031]

Thanks for finishing the report. I enjoyed it. I wished I could be in LA in October, but we have a football game that Saturday at 11 a.m. which torpedoed any railfan plans for the west coast. I hope we beat that teams ass mercilessly since they messed up my plans. I will be there next summer though for the railfest. See you then.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

As things turned out I really coulda used the cab, even for a trip down the street. Wound up hauling my bags behind a bunch of people crowding the street in front of me. All headed to the Vagabond Inn, and I couldn't seem to get around them. Spread out and taking up the whole sidewalk. I know this sounds boorish, but if you're gonna walk slowly, stick to the right. The Slow Lane. Get outta my way, and don't hog the sidewalk.

I semi-regularily run into similar problems when trying to efficiently get down the escalator at Porter Square, if I know the next train in the direction I'm going is one I can catch, but only by running down the escalator. (Sometime within the last year or something, the T started making announcements along the lines of ``Attention passengers, the next Red Line train to {Alewife, Ashmont, Braintree} is now {approaching, arriving}.'' Initially they did just one of arriving or approaching, but now you hear approaching and then arriving.) I find that saying ``excuse me'' reasonably loudly, about 8 or so steps before I reach the people who are in the way, usually causes them to get over to the right. Although in one recent case, they choose the left side, which I found very confusing.

(On normal width MBTA escalators, the convention seems to be tha the right half is for the people who just want to stand there and let the escalator do its thing, and the left half is for people who want to go faster than the escalator. Apparently this convention is followed per-escalator in Porter Square even when two of the three escalators on the longest stretch are both in up mode. There are also some narrow escalators where passing is impossible in the MBTA system, and I think there may even be at least one narrow escalator at South Station, in spite of all of the rennovations for the underground SL1/SL2/SL3 bus tunnel.)

 

[WhoozOn1st]

I wished I could be in LA in October, but we have a football game that Saturday

In my view, unless you're in the NFL and getting paid serious moolah, a football game is not a legitimate excuse for missing the Gathering. So there. Baseball playoff tickets would be another matter, but we don't know whooz going to the postseason yet. Pretty sure it won't be the Dodgers.

 

[printman2000]

Reading here and there about the refurbished Pacific Parlour Cars, I thought the train had one. Heavily disappointed. "What the hell is this?" But learned that it was not a PPC at all, but a "diner lite" car.
EDIT: The Diner Lite garbage car was only a pathetic stand-in for a PPC. Still a full dining car on the train. And still lame chicken.

Why do you think there was a CCC car out on the west coast? As far as I know, only the TE & CONO use those cars so what was it doing out there to be able to be put on the CS?

 

[had8ley]

SECTION 10
Smoke smoke smoke that cigarette

Puff puff puff, and if you puff yourself to death

Tell Saint Peter at the Golden Gate

That you just hate to make him wait

But you just gotta have another cigarette

Departed Bakersfield about 4:20, after standing on the platform smoking (again). Only about 110 degrees, and I found just about the only shade. Talked with a couple guys from the L.A. area, one of whom actually admitted to being an MTA bus driver. Told him "Don't say that too loud around here." HAHA!!

As we raced north, and it was getting toward dinnertime, it began to dawn on me that I had no diner reservation. Out on the platform stoking my habit I had missed the announcement that dinner reservations would be taken. Unlike Pacific Surfliner cars, Superliners have no externally mounted speakers for announcements.

So I left the camera battery still charging and walked back to the diner to try to get a dinner reservation. No dice. Main guy told me the only thing left was "last call." Replied, "That's okay, I just want the burger." "No burger." This came as something of a shock, so I grabbed a menu off a table, and the guy was right: no burger. Fish dish, steak, veggie option (lasagna), and chicken. Unhappy. I wanted a burger, and was afraid that last call would result in the diner being out of the chicken, which was my second choice. Then the guy offered another option: Food service in my roomette at any time, if I gave my attendant decent notice. Since I had begun jonesing for chicken I returned to my roomette and sought out rookie attendant Lindsay.

Now ladies and gentleman, boys and girls, I had never had food service in a sleeper before, and truth to tell the option made me pretty uncomfortable. Being served in a restaurant is one thing, but to ask somebody whooz already pretty busy to go fetch your food from the dining car? Kind of goes against my generally egalitarian grain. Don't like the feeling that somebody is waiting on me. Repulsive.

Returning to the roomette I sought out rookie attendant Lindsay and had a long conversation. I think it took her about 20 minutes to fully convince me that she didn't mind at all. I wasn't being one of the griper passengers. Just didn't feel right about it, and still don't. Lindsay took my order, the chicken, and asked when I would like to eat. Said about 6:30.

The fellow smokers I'd been yapping with at Bakersfield had a roomette on the lower level of my car, so went down to chew the fat with them. Main event was over, so more time for talking. One of them was the aforementioned bus driver, but I decided not hassle him about it. EDIT: Bore more than a passing resemblance to Jackie Gleason's Ralph Kramden, and his pal looked suspiciously like Art Carney's Ed Norton. Forgot to ask if he was a sewer worker.

By the time rookie attendant Lindsay arrived with the food I was back in the roomette, laptop cranked up and editing photos. She was kinda surprised. "I'm glad you're here!" "Where else would I be?" "You've been all over the train all day." Which was true.

The food was largely terrible, and that's almost all I'll say about it. When Lindsay asked how my dinner had been, "The silverware worked very well." She almost fell down laughing, and said she brings her own food along.

NEXT: Ordeal At Stockton

So now you know why I kept that silverware...

 

[Guest]

As things turned out I really coulda used the cab, even for a trip down the street. Wound up hauling my bags behind a bunch of people crowding the street in front of me. All headed to the Vagabond Inn, and I couldn't seem to get around them. Spread out and taking up the whole sidewalk. I know this sounds boorish, but if you're gonna walk slowly, stick to the right. The Slow Lane. Get outta my way, and don't hog the sidewalk.

I semi-regularily run into similar problems when trying to efficiently get down the escalator at Porter Square, if I know the next train in the direction I'm going is one I can catch, but only by running down the escalator. (Sometime within the last year or something, the T started making announcements along the lines of ``Attention passengers, the next Red Line train to {Alewife, Ashmont, Braintree} is now {approaching, arriving}.'' Initially they did just one of arriving or approaching, but now you hear approaching and then arriving.) I find that saying ``excuse me'' reasonably loudly, about 8 or so steps before I reach the people who are in the way, usually causes them to get over to the right. Although in one recent case, they choose the left side, which I found very confusing.

(On normal width MBTA escalators, the convention seems to be tha the right half is for the people who just want to stand there and let the escalator do its thing, and the left half is for people who want to go faster than the escalator. Apparently this convention is followed per-escalator in Porter Square even when two of the three escalators on the longest stretch are both in up mode. There are also some narrow escalators where passing is impossible in the MBTA system, and I think there may even be at least one narrow escalator at South Station, in spite of all of the rennovations for the underground SL1/SL2/SL3 bus tunnel.)

Try using the same method used on snow skis or on a bicycle to save them looking around. "Passing on your left" said loudly (and politely) before reaching said groups if they're perched to the right generally guarantees movement in the right direction.

Whooz, I can't believe you suffered in silence!

Jody

 

[AlanB]

But Diner-lite and CCC aren't exactly the same thing, are they? Isn't Diner-lite that horrible dining experience that's on Lake Shore Limited? And hasn't it also been used at times in reference to Simplified Dining Service in general?
The way I read it, the same word could mean one of three things -- all relating to different parts of Amtrak's dining services. And it's not really a potato-potato conversion -- more like comparing sweet potatoes to tater tots to the act of peeling potatoes.

For clarity's sake, I would use the one word that easily and clearly identifies the specific type of car -- Cross-Country Cafe. Now, I was going to say "best identifies," but I think few would claim that CCC is the best name for the car.

Again, I really appreciate the information. Maybe I'm being a little bit nitpicky, but it's seems really easy to slip in to confusing rail jargon that takes some time to figure out.

For example, I am looking forward to my trip from CIC to SLC via DAV on CS and CZ but I'm worried about OTP and friendliness of the OBS (and bummed that I can't use the PPC). I've also heard some things about SDS in the diner, but at least it's not CCC.

Let me see if I can't clarify things a bit for you RT.

First SDS is really a plan to cut food service costs, not a car. Except for the Auto Train and the Empire Builder, if you're on a long distance Amtrak train and eating in any type of food service car other than the cafe car, you are experiencing SDS. SDS is Simplified Dining Service, really a fancy term for cutting the staffing in the cars and preparing most of the food off the train and just reheating it in a convection oven.

Next Diner-Lite was Amtrak's original term for converting cars into a combination cafe/dining car. This built upon the SDS concept by further cutting staff and cutting out one car, which of course saves both fuel and wear and tear on the car. The first alterted Diner-Lite car was a Superliner I dining car. It was tested on the Capitol Limited well over a year ago, and future designs were changed because of that testing. And the prototype was sent back to also get those changes.

While that was happening the Amfleet version of the Diner-Lite started appearing also. It first saw service on the Cardinal, where it was a major improvement over the poor cafe car that was plying that route. As more Heritage diners took ill, the AMF Diner-Lite's were pressed into service on the LSL also. One big difference between the AMF II Diner-Lite cars and the Superliner version, is that the Superliner's retained their grills and ovens, whereas the AMF's never had those things and none were installed either.

Because of that in part I suspect, and in part I think to differentiate things, when the Superliner versions of Diner-Lite started coming out of Beech Grove once again after the changes, Amtrak decided to spruce up things a bit by adding some regional choices (something that used to be done in the dining cars of every Amtrak train up until about 5 or 6 years ago) and they changed the name to the CCC.

In the case of the CCC's, just like the dining cars on all trains (except the AT & EB), a few items are still cooked fresh on the grill or in the oven. On the AMF Diner-Lite cars that's not an option. But otherwise, all other meals on the CCC's and all meals on the Diner-Lite cars are in effect SDS meals. They are prepared off the train, if not even pre-plated, and reheated in a convection oven on the train. The same can also be said for all other dining cars, except the EB and the AT, most meals are just reheated.

By the way SDS also gave us the plastic cups and plates, paper table cloths, and in the process tripled the amount of garbage Amtrak now has to drop off at stations along the way. It also gave us the staggared seating times in the dining car that now typically sees only about half the car in use at any given time, since the staff can't handle more passengers, and it halved the revenue that the Superliner cars could be producing. Amtrak used to be able to serve dinner to 192 passengers in a Superliner dining car, now under the SDS plan they can only serve 96 for dinner.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Whooz, I can't believe you suffered in silence!
Jody

I often suffer in silence, preferring not to raise a ruckus. Not to worry, though, because all the good stuff, as well as the bad stuff, is recorded in my small brain for telling here at Amtrak Unlimited.

AlanB once told me that another AU member leads a simple life. I replied that I lead a simple life too, and that more than a few people have called me a simpleton.

 

[RTOlson]

printman2000 - I don't doubt an account that the Cross-Country Cafe was used to substitute the Pacific Parlour Car. I don't think it was a permanent replacement and it's possible in terms of logistics.

Northbound Coast Starlight originates in Los Angeles -- where Sunset Limited terminates its westbound run. The Sunset runs with Texas Eagle for part of the route, so swapping an extra CCC en route to LA is entirely possible.

But Diner-lite and CCC aren't exactly the same thing, are they? Isn't Diner-lite that horrible dining experience that's on Lake Shore Limited? And hasn't it also been used at times in reference to Simplified Dining Service in general?

Let me see if I can't clarify things a bit for you RT.

Dear AlanB -

Thank you for your explanation. It's always nice to see a summary of Amtrak's dining services. I think it also underscores my point -- for a passenger to say they experienced a "Diner-lite" car could refer to one of three things -- Simplified Dining Service, a single-level dining car or the Cross-Country Cafe. My point all along is that CCC is not exactly synonymous with Diner-lite and that it would much more straightforward to refer to the specific car as the Cross-Country Cafe.

Put another way -

- I totally grant that all Cross-Country Cafe cars are "Diner-lite."

- However, not all "Diner-lite" cars are Cross-Country Cafes.

And, if needed, examples of why referring to CCC simply as "Diner-Lite" can be confusing:

- TrainWeb's Simplified Dining Service page. As part of the introduction, it notes how people have been referring to SDS as Diner-lite. It also mentions how the editor has revised articles for clarity's sake.

One moniker that has become inappropriately attached to the SDS project is the “Diner Lite” concept. While diners serving SDS may be “lite”-er in some aspects, Diner Lite pertains to a very specific proposal to consolidate all food service functions (formal dining and informal lounge service) into one car. Amtrak is building Diner Lite prototypes with Amfleet II and Superliner cars, and hopes to test the concept in service in 2007.

- Narp Blog - Dining with Amtrak's Diner-lite. This article details the Lake Shore Limited dining experience. Again, that's the single-level car service.

- Narp Blog - Dining with Amtrak's Diner-lounge (Cross-Country Cafe). Here the NARP blogger reviews the CCC service and compares it to the Lake Shore Limited experience, but the writer refers to CCC as a "Diner-lounge" and not "Diner-lite."

So there are at least three examples of Diner-lite being used in reference to three separate things and why I was initially confused when the travelogue writer noted he was in a "Diner-lite" car. It would've avoided five or six posts to simply say "CCC."

 

[AlanB]

- Narp Blog - Dining with Amtrak's Diner-lounge (Cross-Country Cafe). Here the NARP blogger reviews the CCC service and compares it to the Lake Shore Limited experience, but the writer refers to CCC as a "Diner-lounge" and not "Diner-lite."

Just to make things even more interesting, Amtrak is calling the Superliner I diners being converted into CCC's "Diner-Lounges". While so far none have been released from Beech Grove (at least as of April), Amtrak is calling the conversions of Sightseer Lounge cars both SL I & II, "Lounge-Diners".

 

[RTOlson]

Just to make things even more interesting, Amtrak is calling the Superliner I diners being converted into CCC's "Diner-Lounges". While so far none have been released from Beech Grove (at least as of April), Amtrak is calling the conversions of Sightseer Lounge cars both SL I & II, "Lounge-Diners".

*head explodes*

What the heck? This all makes some sort of sense once you take the time to ponder it all out, but jeez.

I appreciate the back-and-forth discussion on this topic. Part of my professional job is to make information understandable for the general public. This is one reason why I'm clamoring for the most-straightforward way to describe stuff.

 

[MrFSS]

Part of my professional job is to make information understandable for the general public.

You need to go to Washington DC and straighten all those folks out.