Texas Eagle Sightseer lounge discontinued

[Cal]

I am afraid I am one of those pigs. I have relatively little problem with the Flex items. Of course I would prefer that earlier modes of service in Dining Cars return. Indeed earlier the better. Perhaps 1950s would be really good. But meanwhile I can survive with Flex. Sorry to disappoint any who is disappointed.

If you really think posting stupid cartoons will change anyone's mind or cause anyone to take you more seriously, you are seriously mistaken. I find it somewhat offensive to tell you the truth. But I suppose letting off steam this way instead of blowing up buildings or shooting up Walmarts is a less harmful way to go Postal.

I agree. And on my latest Amtrak trip, I didn't see anyone throw away a flex meal. Of course they probably didn't love it, but they ate it and enjoyed conversation.

I personally don't love them, but I'll eat them. And several AU'ers have called the cod and shrimp in lobster sauce decent to quite good.

 

[Cal]

Why do you think flex is better? It certainly isn’t better quality or better presentation.

I would think it's better because you have the option to get something else.

 

[jis]

At the same time though....I wouldn't say preferring the steak would necessarily be my deciding factor in choosing the Silver vs. Auto Train. Auto Train is great but it makes me have to drove 6 hours to Lorton from Massachusetts. There are trips where I'll take the flex meals if it means not having to make the DC Drive when I don't feel like the drive. When I do Silvers I can get dropped off and depart 10 minutes from my house. For me the deciding factor is whether I want my vehicle down there enough to do the 6 hour drive both ways or just rent down there and instead have that leg on the train.

Food is one of the factors of consideration when choosing a mode of travel, and even among trains in places that are lucky enough to have multiple choices on each route. But it is not the only consideration.

For me usually it is riding the train that takes priority food or not, which admittedly is a minute minority view I am sure. I have ridden on trains in various parts of the world where the only food to be had was from vendors on station platforms (if you have had tea from little earthenware pots, and food served on containers made of stitched together leafs - totally recyclable back to earth - you'll know what I am talking about) at one extreme to trains with luxurious Restaurant Cars or Diners with elaborate menus and presentation. The latter is certainly much more ostentatious, but limiting myself to only those trains with the latter would have caused me to miss out on some of the most fascinating rail journeys to remote places. So one gets to pick and choose depending on what one is trying to achieve.

As for Amtrak, I think the right thing for Amtrak to do is to definitely move back to traditional dining with an on board Chef preferably with a menu llike in the late 90s or early naughts, rather than the stuff that came later on the slope to oblivion. Frankly, compared to the '90s Culinary Institute days, the last round of traditional dining before Flex was already getting pretty dismal. Now that the F&B account does not have to be a separate break even P&L by law, they can do better than what they did in the waning days of the Boardman regime or what followed since then.

For single night journey eastern trains I think the airline intercontinental first class model which does not require an on board Chef is workable, if they can pull it off given the apparently reduced ability at Amtrak to manage anything. I think a combination of at table service and counter service should be feasible too if they wish to go to a single food service car, but I would still like to have a Lounge Car retained even if it does not have a food counter, if anything at least serve as a common space for consuming food (from the food service car or elsewhere) and socializing. Western trains should also retain Lounge cars (SSL if possible) for the same reason.

For mid-long distance day trains maybe minimally what needs to be done is to invent a true blue American Bento Box or a set of them to be available at the food service counter i the train.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I am afraid I am one of those pigs. I have relatively little problem with the Flex items. Of course I would prefer that earlier modes of service in Dining Cars return. Indeed earlier the better. Perhaps 1950s would be really good. But meanwhile I can survive with Flex. Sorry to disappoint any who is disappointed.

Ditto

 

[JayPea]

I am amongst those who didn't find the flex meals all that bad. Of course it wasn't the dining car food I was used to and of course I much prefer that. But last year on a long Amtrak trip I tried all 8 of the entrees and of those only one I didn't like. That was last September and from what I understand the flex meals have improved since then. I repeat that I'd much rather have traditional dining and do hope it comes back as of June 30th. But I didn't think the flex meals were horrible and I make no apologies for saying so.

 

[Rasputin]

As a long time railfan it is possible that I might someday embrace the ascetic experience of a trip on the Texas Eagle just to have a long train ride. But I don't think in good conscience I could encourage family members who are not railfans to join me on a trip with so few amenities.

 

[zephyr17]

On the TE it sounds like you'll get a traditional meal on the San antonio - Los Angeles part of the trip.

Yes, on the Sunset. They won't be stocking flex meals especially for the Texas Eagle through passengers on the Sunset.

 

[Cal]

So why is the Eagle no longer getting traditional dining? Is this confirmed or just a speculation because of odd wording?

 

[Sidney]

The TE is being relegated to the status of an Eastern train,it seems. I was on it Friday and Saturday and the Eastern version of the Flex menu was used. I ve read posts here that traditional dining will not return,nor will the SSL car.

Amtrak says it is being "retired". What the hell does that mean? Are we in danger of losing other Sightseer cars? The SSL car is a wonderful perk for travelers. Prices keep going up,the amenities keep going down. Unless things change,this was my last trip on the Texas Eagle.

 

[west point]

I know a railfan who has acquired the tick borne meat allergy, He is wondering what to do for eating on a long Amtrak trip ?

 

[jis]

These are my notes on speculation of what is likely to happen based on various utterances from various places on the subject

Reading between the lines I get the impression that Amtrak has designated 5 Western trains as the Experiential Service. These are:

• Sunset Limited
• Southwest Chief
• California Zephyr
• Empire Builder
• Coast Starlight

These will get premium Diner and SSL services. The get Traditional Dining whatever it turns out to be starting 1st July.

Auto Train will remain a class by itself.

The remaining Superliner trains will apparently get the CCC and no SSL and continue with Flex Menu of some sort until the next phase of food service for the Eastern trains is determined. Once that happens they will get the same treatment as the Eastern trains..

The Viewliner (Eastern) trains will remain on Flex Menu. Eventually there will be some significant upgrade of foo service, but most likely still based on Pre-prepared meals that do not require a Chef on board to cook anything. They will possibly be plated and presented better and there might yet again be an attempt to standardize on using Convection Ovens.

At present it appears that the Diner will be an exclusive benefit of Sleeper travel i.e. no Coach passengers in Diners. It is possible that at some point some Diner fare may be sold across the counter to Coach passengers for consumption in the Lounge section or at their seats.

There have been rumblings about single food service car on the non-Experiential trains though details are hard to come by. So we will have to wait and see whether the Mica inspired project still lives or it is falling by the 3wayside. Perhaps the advocacy community ought top get in the act and make sure that it falls by the wayside and trains continue to have Lounges of some sort or the other.

Anyway, that is what I have extracted from what is going on so far. No guarantees of correctness since quite a bt of it is speculative based on currently known knowns (as Rumsfeld would say).

 

[Sidney]

The City of New Orleans,from what I read has a SSL car.

In a perfect,reasonable world you would expect the prices for sleepers on the TE to drop. I did notice,doing dummy bookings the price for a roomette on the TE from Chicago to San Antonio is a reasonable $310,including rail fare on days they don't connect with the SL. On connection days they rise about $150.

 

[jis]

The City of New Orleans,from what I read has a SSL car.

Interestingly, the CONO got a food downgrade quite a while back, and it still luckily retains its SSL, whereas the TE did not undergo a food downgrade when the CONO did and now it is losing its SSL. Who knows whether they plan to classify it as an Experiential train?

 

[user 14106]

Interestingly, the CONO got a food downgrade quite a while back, and it still luckily retains its SSL, whereas the TE did not undergo a food downgrade when the CONO did and now it is losing its SSL. Who knows whether they plan to classify it as an Experiential train?

According to Chestler the CONO SSL is due to axle count requirements. The official word coming out of Amtrak is that between the five experiential western trains and the axle count requirement on the CONO there is a shortage of cars to be able to have them on the TE and CL.

 

[jis]

According to Chestler the CONO SSL is due to axle count requirements. The official word coming out of Amtrak is that between the five experiential western trains and the axle count requirement on the CONO there is a shortage of cars to be able to have them on the TE and CL.

Good point. I had somehow forgotten about the axle count thing. Yes it would be borderline with the number of cars that have been disposed off or are off line for some reason or the other.

 

[Rasputin]

If there is a shortage of Sightseer lounge cars, I would think the Texas Eagle would get priority over the CONO based on the hours of daylight running. I assume the CONO could operate with a baggage car or two or a dorm car or two as axle count cars.

 

[Cal]

These are my notes on speculation of what is likely to happen based on various utterances from various places on the subject

Reading between the lines I get the impression that Amtrak has designated 5 Western trains as the Experiential Service. These are:

• Sunset Limited
• Southwest Chief
• California Zephyr
• Empire Builder
• Coast Starlight

These will get premium Diner and SSL services. The get Traditional Dining whatever it turns out to be starting 1st July.

Auto Train will remain a class by itself.

The remaining Superliner trains will apparently get the CCC and no SSL and continue with Flex Menu of some sort until the next phase of food service for the Eastern trains is determined. Once that happens they will get the same treatment as the Eastern trains..

The Viewliner (Eastern) trains will remain on Flex Menu. Eventually there will be some significant upgrade of foo service, but most likely still based on Pre-prepared meals that do not require a Chef on board to cook anything. They will possibly be plated and presented better and there might yet again be an attempt to standardize on using Convection Ovens.

At present it appears that the Diner will be an exclusive benefit of Sleeper travel i.e. no Coach passengers in Diners. It is possible that at some point some Diner fare may be sold across the counter to Coach passengers for consumption in the Lounge section or at their seats.

There have been rumblings about single food service car on the non-Experiential trains though details are hard to come by. So we will have to wait and see whether the Mica inspired project still lives or it is falling by the 3wayside. Perhaps the advocacy community ought top get in the act and make sure that it falls by the wayside and trains continue to have Lounges of some sort or the other.

Anyway, that is what I have extracted from what is going on so far. No guarantees of correctness since quite a bt of it is speculative based on currently known knowns (as Rumsfeld would say).

I hope this is not true. Arrow, which I know is not the most trustworthy site, is showing traditional dining for the TE in July, just as the 'Experiential' trains. It gives me some hope.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

These are my notes on speculation of what is likely to happen based on various utterances from various places on the subject

Reading between the lines I get the impression that Amtrak has designated 5 Western trains as the Experiential Service. These are:

• Sunset Limited
• Southwest Chief
• California Zephyr
• Empire Builder
• Coast Starlight

These will get premium Diner and SSL services. The get Traditional Dining whatever it turns out to be starting 1st July.

Auto Train will remain a class by itself.

The remaining Superliner trains will apparently get the CCC and no SSL and continue with Flex Menu of some sort until the next phase of food service for the Eastern trains is determined. Once that happens they will get the same treatment as the Eastern trains..

The Viewliner (Eastern) trains will remain on Flex Menu. Eventually there will be some significant upgrade of foo service, but most likely still based on Pre-prepared meals that do not require a Chef on board to cook anything. They will possibly be plated and presented better and there might yet again be an attempt to standardize on using Convection Ovens.

At present it appears that the Diner will be an exclusive benefit of Sleeper travel i.e. no Coach passengers in Diners. It is possible that at some point some Diner fare may be sold across the counter to Coach passengers for consumption in the Lounge section or at their seats.

There have been rumblings about single food service car on the non-Experiential trains though details are hard to come by. So we will have to wait and see whether the Mica inspired project still lives or it is falling by the 3wayside. Perhaps the advocacy community ought top get in the act and make sure that it falls by the wayside and trains continue to have Lounges of some sort or the other.

Anyway, that is what I have extracted from what is going on so far. No guarantees of correctness since quite a bt of it is speculative based on currently known knowns (as Rumsfeld would say).

Yeah I think you’re right. It does make sense to have the ssl’s and full diners on the longer trains so at least that is somewhat logical.

What doesn’t make sense is downgrading the Silvers, Crescent, Lake Shore and Capitol. I can see the argument for the City and Eagle - but the others make no sense. They should be getting a BETTER service to attract higher price tags.

 

[zephyr17]

If there is a shortage of Sightseer lounge cars, I would think the Texas Eagle would get priority over the CONO based on the hours of daylight running. I assume the CONO could operate with a baggage car or two or a dorm car or two as axle count cars.

So how did Amtrak develop a shortage of SSL's when they had enough of the cars to run them daily on all Superliner long distance trains before the pandemic. Did the cars die of COVID-19? Amtrak needs to account for the supposed loss of serviceable, road-worthy equipment.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

So how did Amtrak develop a shortage of SSL's when they had enough of the cars to run them daily on all Superliner long distance trains before the pandemic. Did the cars die of COVID-19? Amtrak needs to account for the supposed loss of serviceable, road-worthy equipment.

If Amtrak can use brand new Viewliner II’s as axle count cars they are clearly not accountable for anything in regards to rolling stock.

Also... didn’t the states pay extra for the dome car to operate seasonally? So that was a revenue making car correct? But Amtrak quietly sells it off with all the heritage diners.

 

[Willbridge]

I couldn't find anything about that in the Amtrak document but I may have missed it. Can you provide the page number or whatever to help me find it?

BTW, If you are old enough to remember the old Soviet 5 year plans, you will remember they seemed to be completely changed the next year because they were a pipe dream for outproducing and out-arming the West when in fact, with each new 5 year plan, they fell further behind because they were utter garbage.

Interesting to note that one of the early weaknesses of the Five Year Plans was that the railway planned the number of cars for shippers rigidly. When there was a surge in traffic they kept on with the same car supply at the same prices, even if the fleet had cars available. Sort of like Amtrak recently on the supply side, but rather different on the pricing side. Under the old U.S. regulatory system, the prices stayed constant but when there was a surge in traffic the railways were welcome to use every car they had.

 

[Larry H.]

I have said it before but due to this subject and the controversy I will repeat it.. Our last meal on Amtrak a couple years ago by now was on the City of New Orleans. The so called sandwich was the worst soggy distasteful mess I ever got on the train. An yes most of it went in the trash where it belonged as far as I was concerned. My mom ordered the so called Cesar Salad which ended up being nothing but green head lettuce with a few pieces of carrot. When we ask about why it wasn't what they showed in the menu the woman said they didn't often get the items as show anymore. And to top it off what they called cheesecake was a round patty that was totally unlike any cheesecake I ever ate a piece of. When I consider it I have to say that at Walmart you can get a wonderful set of various very tasty cheese cakes for around 6 dollars, and that would serve at least three people if needed. Who ever is in charge of buying the foods simply does't care what they end up serving and that should come to a halt on all trains.. My friends just returned from Chicago on the Texas Eagle. He sent an email to Amtrak telling them how poor the food quality was and wondered why a long distance train would run without a lounge car? It probably won't matter. When I saw the new President or CEO say they were going to " put the passengers needs before cost cutting" I thought maybe finally got it, but evidently they haven't.

 

[20th Century Rider]

I have said it before but due to this subject and the controversy I will repeat it.. Our last meal on Amtrak a couple years ago by now was on the City of New Orleans. The so called sandwich was the worst soggy distasteful mess I ever got on the train. An yes most of it went in the trash where it belonged as far as I was concerned. My mom ordered the so called Cesar Salad which ended up being nothing but green head lettuce with a few pieces of carrot. When we ask about why it wasn't what they showed in the menu the woman said they didn't often get the items as show anymore. And to top it off what they called cheesecake was a round patty that was totally unlike any cheesecake I ever ate a piece of. When I consider it I have to say that at Walmart you can get a wonderful set of various very tasty cheese cakes for around 6 dollars, and that would serve at least three people if needed. Who ever is in charge of buying the foods simply does't care what they end up serving and that should come to a halt on all trains.. My friends just returned from Chicago on the Texas Eagle. He sent an email to Amtrak telling them how poor the food quality was and wondered why a long distance train would run without a lounge car? It probably won't matter. When I saw the new President or CEO say they were going to " put the passengers needs before cost cutting" I thought maybe finally got it, but evidently they haven't.

Amen... Flex food is not very good and not reasonably reflective of the prices charged for sleeper accommodations.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

So how did Amtrak develop a shortage of SSL's when they had enough of the cars to run them daily on all Superliner long distance trains before the pandemic. Did the cars die of COVID-19? Amtrak needs to account for the supposed loss of serviceable, road-worthy equipment.

Amtrak DID NOT have enough SSL's prior to the pandemic. In the last few years before the pandemic I rode Southwest Chief's, California Zephyrs and Empire Builders that used substitute Cross Country Cafes when there was a problem with the regular SSL. There were no available SSL's for fill that need.

 

[20th Century Rider]

You can get more info on the TE here... apparently management has surmised that the pandemic caused the shortage of SSL's which weren't maintained during the pandemic. According the the knowledge gained by this reporting service, the TE will continue to have flex meals for the portion that goes between CHI and connection with the Sunset Limited... totally unacceptable for a train that travels almost two days before it's connection with the SL which is considered a 'Western Train.'

http://texasrailadvocates.org/2021/...lls-short-on-daily-restored-service-promises/