The Adirondack.....40 years!

[NS VIA Fan]

I also noted the original route of the train has changed since then in two places.....mainly back then it used the CPR route into Windsor Station in Montreal, but it also used the D&H route between Albany and Saratoga via Watervliet and Mechanicville, rather than the current routing via Schenectady.....

Oh....I forgot....the route changed in three places....it used to go into GCT before the Empire Connection was built....

Looking at the map in the first Adirondack Timetable (above) it shows the route going to Montreal Central Station, (just labelled Windsor Station). This is the route the Adirondack follows today but didn’t start using until 1986.

On the map.....Cantic is labelled Lacolle and St. Lambert is labelled Montreal West.

So I wonder, in the planning for the train’s restoration in 1974, if they had originally intended to send it to Central instead of Windsor.....and it would have made sense: The Montrealer had been inaugurated just two years earlier and it used Central so why have two separate stations for two trains a day in a foreign country.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this but its fun to speculate on what the original route planners might have had in mind!

Another timetable was issued with a slight correction to the map: the Montreal West stop was at least moved across the river and this timetable was bilingual English and French. Also note on the map, the train used “gare” Grand Central.

.......and here’s my rough photo-shopped version of the route to Windsor Station.

 

[the_traveler]

I'm not completely up to date on my French, but doesn't "Gare" translate to "Station"? :huh: I always knew the stations in Montreal as Gare Central and Gare Windsor. I know Central has a thru track, so is a station but Windsor did not and is thus a terminal. So how can both be Gare and GCT? At least one is wrong.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

In CPR days....it was Windsor Station. AMT (Agence metroplitaine de transport (commuter train operator) called it Terminus Windsor and now gare Lucien L’Allier......and yes it’s still a terminal.....no thru tracks.

The original Windsor Station and Concourse are still there but the tracks have been cut back a couple of hundred meters to west of the Bell Centre.

 

[trainviews]

I'm not completely up to date on my French, but doesn't "Gare" translate to "Station"? :huh: I always knew the stations in Montreal as Gare Central and Gare Windsor. I know Central has a thru track, so is a station but Windsor did not and is thus a terminal. So how can both be Gare and GCT? At least one is wrong.

I don't think there's any distinction in French between station and terminal - both are called "gare".

 

[railiner]

To most people, they don't care about the proper differentiation of a "terminal" or a "station".......they are one and the same. Most people incorrectly refer to GCT as "Grand Central Station", when only the subway stop there can be correctly called that. There was even an old radio soap opera that was called by that incorrect name, way back when....

 

[dnsommer2013]

Really interesting thread! The

Adirondack and The Montrealer have always been favorites of mine! Something about being international made them more exciting to me.

Nowadays I often use the satellite view in Google Maps to follow rail lines. And just the other day I had a lot of trouble determining what routes across the border into Montreal these trains have used.

It looks like The Montrealer briefly entered NY state after St Albans to cross the border at Rouses Point, where The Adirondack crossed too?

Last time I rode The Adirondack I remember a long curve in the track in a town between the border and Montreal. I can't figure out where this is?

Where does the Adirondack consist stay overnight? In Gare Centrale?

Once I rode CP's train from Montreal across Maine. It left from Windsor. Had a dome. Looked like a mini Canadian!

Thanks.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

It looks like The Montrealer briefly entered NY state after St Albans to cross the border at Rouses Point, where The Adirondack crossed too?

Last time I rode The Adirondack I remember a long curve in the track in a town between the border and Montreal. I can't figure out where this is?

Where does the Adirondack consist stay overnight? In Gare Centrale?

No, the Montrealer stayed on the Vermont side (just east of Rouses Point) On the map below, it crossed Missisquoi Bay on a trestle parallel to VT78….then took a sharp turn north along Alburg Springs road before crossing into Quebec. It then headed for the customs stop at Cantic.

http://goo.gl/maps/7ItFi

The original route the Adirondack followed and the one it follows today split just north of Rouses Point. Today’s route veers off to the right on the map below to the customs stop at the green Hwy 223 symbol. (you can see the white traier next to the tracks) It then heads for Cantic and onto Montreal.

http://goo.gl/maps/6l3uo

Would that sharp turn be just before St. Lambert where the Adirondack joins the VIA route east to Quebec City and Halifax?

http://goo.gl/maps/KPsUF

There is also a sharp turn passing thru St. Jean-sur-Richelieu at the old CN Station:

http://goo.gl/maps/gyxWo

http://goo.gl/maps/fUo83

The Adirondack backs out of Gare Centrale for overnight servicing at VIA’s Montreal Maintenance Centre just west of Victoria Bridge.

http://goo.gl/maps/oesrc

 

[dnsommer2013]

Thanks for that info! Looks like there's no way any train can get into Quebec using the old Montrealer route now.

It seems like Quebec has plenty of track and also many abandoned rights of way.

Even there at Rouses Point satellite view seems to show an abandoned track parallel?

I think the sharp curve is where you indicated. Richelieu. Could be a good new station stop

Did any through trains go from White River Jct. directly north into Quebec?

 

[jis]

There is an active track connecting St. Albans to Cantic today which could be used to extend the Vermonter to Montreal. Whether that is exactly the track that the Montrealer used I don't know.

Normally the switch at Cantic is set towards St. Albans since that is the more frequently used freight route today. The Rouses Point to Cantic track is used only by the Adirondack today AFAICT.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[NS VIA Fan]

There is an active track connecting St. Albans to Cantic today which could be used to extend the Vermonter to Montreal. Whether that is exactly the track that the Montrealer used I don't know.

Normally the switch at Cantic is set towards St. Albans since that is the more frequently used freight route today. The Rouses Point to Cantic track is used only by the Adirondack today AFAICT.

[SIZE=11pt]Yes the Amtrak Montrealer route is still active today and see daily freight service between St. Albans, Cantic and Montreal.[/SIZE]

 

[dnsommer2013]

Which way do CP freights go at the north end of the D&H line?

 

[NS VIA Fan]

.......Looks like there's no way any train can get into Quebec using the old Montrealer route now.

Even there at Rouses Point satellite view seems to show an abandoned track parallel?

Did any through trains go from White River Jct. directly north into Quebec?

[SIZE=11pt]The parallel route you see heading north from Rouses Point is not abandoned and see daily CPR (D&H) freight traffic. This is the route the Adirondack originally followed to Montreal Windsor Station. The Customs stop on this route was at Lacolle......about a mile and a half west of Cantic. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]http://goo.gl/maps/3tXRt[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Yes.....jointly operated Boston & Maine/Canadian Pacific passenger trains between Boston and Montreal headed north from White River Jct. [/SIZE]

 

[CoachSlumber]

When did they add the Port Henry stop? That's the one I used to get over to Middlebury, Vermont. We had a lot of fun in the bars in Port Henry.

 

[afigg]

Nowadays I often use the satellite view in Google Maps to follow rail lines. And just the other day I had a lot of trouble determining what routes across the border into Montreal these trains have used.

Another way to follow rail lines is to use Google Earth with an overlay turned on for the rail lines. You can zoom out and still see where the rail lines are. In Google Earth (at least for the Windows version I have on my deskstop), go to the layers box, then the More checkbox, then Transportation->Rail checkbox. Turning on Subway and Tram will generate color coded overlays for the regional transit agencies that have provided data to Google for their transit lines.

 

[dnsommer2013]

Hmm. I just "swiped" my way north from the starting point on your map using the track to the left, and I did not come to the Victoria Bridge! Must've missed a switch? Or still not getting it! LOL

(A few minutes later)

Okay! The track to the right got me to Victoria Bridge! Thanks! I finally "made it" into Gare Centrale!

So it must be a real burden to maintain that line just for two trains a day. Is there any other way to get up to Gare Centrale? Maybe a new jct somewhere?

Also, just yesterday I read that work has begun on restoring the line from Rutland to Burlington to passenger train standards. Could this line eventually connect to St Albans and Canada?

Wonder why Vermont and Maine are rebuilding old lines while New Hampshire and the rest of the region are not. Well, except for Massachusetts too, because I think it just rebuilt the old line from Springfield to Brattleboro.

 

[neroden]

Massachusetts is *pouring* money into rail upgrades, all across the state. Connecticut's putting a lot in too. As are Vermont and Maine (as you noted).

New Hampshire... sigh. Famously the holdout anti-rail state in New England. They've been dithering over a tiny little extension of MBTA rail service to Nashua for 30 years. I don't know when the politics there will change.

 

[dnsommer2013]

Did New Hampshire ever have any name trains or anything like through service to Chicago or Florida? Maybe there's no history to form a reference. And the mountains probably limited railroad construction possibilities I suppose.

Thanks.

 

[afigg]

Massachusetts is *pouring* money into rail upgrades, all across the state. Connecticut's putting a lot in too. As are Vermont and Maine (as you noted).

New Hampshire... sigh. Famously the holdout anti-rail state in New England. They've been dithering over a tiny little extension of MBTA rail service to Nashua for 30 years. I don't know when the politics there will change.

New Hampshire politics are changing. The state appears to be turning a bluer shade of purple in its political makeup. I think it is only a matter of time before the Boston commuters who live in NH will overcome the opposition to extending MBTA service into NH. The study on Boston to Concord service is underway and checking the project website, they were scheduled to issue the final report this fall. I don't expect NH will immediately act to follow the recommendations in the final report, but will eventually move to restore passenger service to Concord after a few political battles.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Did New Hampshire ever have any name trains or anything like through service to Chicago or Florida? Maybe there's no history to form a reference. And the mountains probably limited railroad construction possibilities I suppose.

Thanks.

[SIZE=11pt]Way back when.......you probably had through cars to Chicago and Florida but not through trains. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Then there were the Day White Mountains and the Night White Mountains between NYC and the mountain resort areas and the Red Wing and Alouette between Boston and Montreal.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Trains to Maine cut through a corner of New Hampshire as the Downeaster does today and one of these trains: The Gull......could get you all the way to Halifax. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]A few of New England’s through name trains:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt] http://www.faracresfarm.com/jbvb/rr/run_thru.html[/SIZE]

 

[dnsommer2013]

Thanks for the link! It got me pretty much up to speed! Now I'm thinking about heading over to Crawford Notch!