The Big American Trip (BAT), advice please

[Colin]

Hi, my wife and I (we live in the UK) are beginning to plan our trip of a lifetime, a rail tour of the USA. I'll be combining this with a research tour relating to my profession, so spending several days in each city, combining tourism with research. Our idea is to start from New York, then Niagra Falls, Toronto, Chicago,, Winnipeg, Seattle, then to San Fransico. Then (either by car or train, not sure), to LA' then drive Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Vegas etc. then (not sure here), either train cross country to Washington, then New York, or via Texas to Washington etc. this is a big trip that will take about three months or more we reckon. So any advice and information at all would be welcome.

 

[Bob Dylan]

:hi: Wonderful trip and Welcome to AU! Please read the Trip Reports, FAQ Section and as much of this Forum as possible, there is so much information here and also on On Track/On Line, another Rail Forum that lots of our members also belong to!

You didnt say just how long you had but with that Itenerary I'll suggest you consider buying an Amtrak Rail Pass, they come in three Versions, 15 Day/8 Segments/30 Day/12 Segments and 45 Day/18 Segments! Google up Amtrak.com and read about the details! With extensive Long Distance travel they can Save you Money over buying the Rail Fare A La Cart! They are only good for Coach Travel but you can Upgrade to a Sleeping Car by Paying the Room Charge which here includes Meals and All Sleeping Car Perks and what is so nice it Covers Both of ya'll, not per Person!

There are Lots of People happy to help ya'll with your Questions and Plans, Lots of Info here, some is even True! :giggle:

Also since you are going to Travel in Canada, VIA (Canada's Amtrak) runs Corridor Trains between Windsor and Quebec City) similar to our NE Corridor between Washington and Boston! And if you have tiem, riding The Canadian (Train #1) from Toronto to Vancouver is one of the Highlites of North American Rail! (It's 5 Days/4 Nights in Restored 1950s Budd Equipment and great food, Service and Scenery! VIA runs 50% off and express Fares, look for them on via.ca, this Train is Very Popular and Expensive in the Summer and during Holidays but affordable @ other times, especially in the Winter!)

 

[chakk]

You also didn't say when (i.le., what time of year) you will be making this trip. Much of the Amtrak and Via Rail long distance train service can be quite crowded in the summer months, so if you are planning to travel in these peak periods, you will want to book your sleeping car accomodations as soon as possible to avoid possible disappointments for sold out sleeping cars.

And as much as I enjoy riding Amtrak (in the western USA especially) there can be a lot said for renting a car and driving across much of the West, providing greater flexibility to stop where you want, make lots of side trips to lesser known places, etc. Taking the train overnight -- for example, between Chicago and Denver or Chicago and Albuquerque -- can eliminate most of the monotonous driving segments and still keep you on your way in comfort and enjoyment. I have had wonderful experiences talking with foreign visitors over dinner or breakfast on the California Zephyr as it speeds across the midwestern states.

 

[the_traveler]

You also said "Niagara Falls", but did not mention which one. There is Niagara Falls, New York (USA) which has a few Amtrak trains per day and Niagara Falls, Ontario (Canada) which has 1 Amtrak train a day. The station on the US side is quite far from the Falls and River, and also many taxis will not (or can not) cross the border. The station on the Canadian side, besides that 1 Amtrak train, has other VIA Rail trains to Toronto.

You also said you were going to drive from LA to the Grand Canyon. I want to warn you that is LONG boring drive. Between city traffic in LA, a 400 km desert stretch and many more hours of driving, I would plan a full day just for that drive! I would either take Amtrak to Flagstaff, Arizona to rent a car, or since you're planning to go to Las Vegas (LV) I might take an Amtrak bus (no trains to LV) and rent there. Also be careful to book LV, Nevada (I assume you mean the city with the casinos) and not LV, New Mexico. The train from LA thru Flagstaff to Chicago, Illinois stops at the New Mexico one - but if you blink, you'll miss it!

Enjoy your holiday to the US and Canada!

 

[SeeBuyFly]

You didn't mention the Zephyr, which is widely considered a must-ride for first timers. You did mention Monument Valley, and it is not very far south of the Zephyr's route, e.g. at Grand Junction, CO. (It's also not very far north of the LA-Chgo route, the SW Chief, e.g. at Gallup, NM.)

 

[greatcats]

Some of the suggestions are good, but some of the cities you mentioned early in your itinerary are not directly connected by rail. Toronto, Chicago, Winnipeg????? Many years ago this was possible, but not by rail now. You could certainly fly these segments, but if you want to remain on the ground it gets complicated by rail. It is possible to take VIA trains from Toronto to Windsor and get a bus or taxi across to Detroit for Amtrak. I am not sure I would want to be bothered with that one. It is questionable if there is bus service at this time -o thers should know - between the Empire Builder route in North Dakota up to Winnipeg. I myself would not be adverse to using buses for some relatively short runs, such as Toronto to Chicago. There are certainly some great rail journeys in the U.S., and to a lesser degree in Canada, but the network is skeletal. To explore the American West, a rental car is highly desirable. If you travel to Flagstaff, give me a holler.

 

[Braniff747SP]

LA to Grand Canyon is not a particularly interesting drive, and it's long. You could always take the Southwest Chief and take the connecting bus service to the Grand Canyon Railway.

 

[Train2104]

The station on the Canadian side, besides that 1 Amtrak train, has other VIA Rail trains to Toronto.

Not anymore. VIA has dropped all its non-Maple Leaf Niagara Falls service. During the summer months, some GO commuter trains will make the run to TWO though.

 

[Alice]

I'll agree that the interstate from LA to the Grand Canyon is not very interesting, however, if you have the time, the old US highway system and state, local, and tribal roads go through some incredible country, especially if you are interested in geology. On the way out of the LA basin, depending on what else you want to see (and time of year), Joshua Tree is unique, Death Valley is spectacular, and route 66 is just plain fun. Depending on how long you stay in those cities on your list, three months is plenty of time for both long distance trains and road trips.

Please tell us time of year, it changes things.

 

[junebug]

Oh this sounds like it is going to be fun! I agree with getting the rail pass. I did the 8 stops and it was wonderful! After staying at the Grand Canyon for a couple of days, I hopped back on the train to L.A. At the Grand Canyon, I stayed at the Canyon Motel in Williams, Arizona. I was surprised at how nice it was. Spacious clean rooms. They have a lovely complimentary breakfast outside, and I loved the little town.

 

[Colin]

Thank you so much everyone. The thing is for medical reasons my wife can't fly, so we are 'forced' to take a boat across the pond (QM2), the earliest crossing is 9 May, the timing is critical as well need to get back to New York by early July, if we miss the ship well have to wait till September. Given the cost we are unlikely ever to do this again, hence we need to try and get as many 'must see's as we can without exhausting ourselves. The advice you folks already provided has been terrific. And thanks re the tip about the rail pass it was a auestion i was going to ask. What route do people recommend for return to New York, we also would like to see Washington DC but this depends on the time available.

 

[Boogs]

Colin.

My wife and I are also UK based and have previously travelled in Canada by VIA rail from Toronto to Niagra (Canada), to Montreal to Quebec and back to Toronto. This weekend we are heading across the pond to New York and on this trip will be going from New York to New Orleans, on to LA and then up to Seattle all by Amtrak. We have previously been to Vegas on a couple of occasions but have flown in and out of there on both of our trips.

We will be back home early in September and I would be more than happy to pass on details of our experiences and of the hotels we used in each location if that would help you. Feel free to PM me if you can with all of your questions and I will answer them as soon as we get home.

Your trip sounds fantastic, as you say it is likely to be a once in a lifetime journey so you need to get the most out of it and good planning will ensure you get the best you possibly can.

Enjoy.

John

 

[junebug]

So you would be leaving Washington State and going to New York? In that case, I would want to take the Coast Starlight. Goes all down the west coast all the way from Vancouver, British Columbia in Canada, through Washington, Oregon, then down through California. If you stop in San Francisco, California, you can get on the California Zephyr in nearby Emeryville. I love the Zephyr where it goes through the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. It only goes as far as Chicago, and I have never gone east from Chicago, so I don't know how to get to New York from Chicago. The other people, I am sure do know.

Another option would be to take the Empire Builder from Washington State to Montana and see Glacier National Park. The Empire Builder also ends in Chicago, but it's not one of the prettiest routes I have ever taken.

When you are going from San Francisco to LA earlier in your trip, I recommend the Coast Starlight rather than driving. You can get closer to the ocean in some parts than you can in a car! It's one of the prettiest trips I have taken. And they have a wine and cheese tasting if you get a sleeper car.

I am so excited for you! Three months will indeed be the trip of a lifetime.

 

[Colin]

Cheers Service Attendant, I was going to ask about train v car from San Francisco to LA. everyone describes the coast road as one of the great American car trips, are you suggesting the train is even better? The most complicated part is the trip around the Southwest, seeing the main sites, it looks like anti clockwise LA, Flagstaff, monument valley, Bruce, Vegas, death valley, Yosemite. then

pIck up the train at Reno makes sense. I gues this will take about three weeks? Does it make sense.

 

[sportbiker]

The portion of Highway 1 (Pacific Coast Highway) between Leggett (at the north) and San Simeon (at the south) is spectacular. And spectacularly frustrating. It is often crowded with caravans whose drivers are members in good standing of the Anti-Destination League. I've been on long sections of that road and never broke 20 mph while caught behind a road train of those…things. (Tell the Top Gear boys to come over here and off a few. We have way too many). The road can be so tight and twisty there's simply no place to pass, and unfortunately too many drivers fail to yield to traffic.

That said, if you plan the highway as a two or three day event (Leggett to Monterey, Monterey to San Luis Obispo, SLO to Los Angeles) you can find jaw-dropping scenery as well as the time to stop and enjoy it. As a single-day marathon, forget it: the Coast Starlight offers its own specatcular scenery (most of which is between Paso Robles and Oxnard), will get you from the San Francisco Bay Area to Los Angeles is one day, and you'll arrive refreshed, not beat down by so many hours behind the wheel staring at the ass-end of the caravan in front of you.

 

[junebug]

I've never been on the Pacific Surfliner - Is this map correct? The Surfliner goes along the ocean more than the Coast Starlight does?

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=santa+barbara,+ca&daddr=San+Luis+Obispo,+CA&hl=en&sll=34.606085,-120.17395&sspn=2.287694,4.141846&geocode=FV44DQId8ozd-CnVgy1vxxTpgDFIdrrXZDrRyA%3BFUBfGgIdYOHO-Cknwmx7vubsgDFGD-_OwpACvA&oq=san+lui&dirflg=r&ttype=now&noexp=0&noal=0&sort=def&mra=ls&t=m&z=9&start=0

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=santa+barbara,+ca&daddr=San+Luis+Obispo,+CA&hl=en&sll=34.606085,-120.17395&sspn=2.287694,4.141846&geocode=FV44DQId8ozd-CnVgy1vxxTpgDFIdrrXZDrRyA%3BFUBfGgIdYOHO-Cknwmx7vubsgDFGD-_OwpACvA&oq=san+lui&dirflg=r&ttype=now&noexp=0&noal=0&sort=def&mra=ls&t=m&z=9&start=1

This doesn't look right. As I recall, that was the pretties part of the Coast Starlight trip.

 

[Colin]

Years of reading Jack Keroac and the Big Sur! By the way how far in advance will I need to book the sleeping compartments if travelling between May and July next year?

 

[ehbowen]

Years of reading Jack Keroac and the Big Sur! By the way how far in advance will I need to book the sleeping compartments if travelling between May and July next year?

I would book RIGHT NOW, because there are some travel agents which like to snap up and then resell the best rooms on the most popular trains. You may not get the best fare, but if you keep following the prices after you book and find a price decrease, you can normally rebook and receive a 90% refund or a 100% credit towards future travel. For the "trip of a lifetime" as you have described it, I wouldn't risk a sold out train on my limited travel days to save a few bucks.

Do, however, use Amsnag to scan the prices for the dates upon which you can travel and find the best fares.

 

[the_traveler]

The station on the Canadian side, besides that 1 Amtrak train, has other VIA Rail trains to Toronto.

Not anymore. VIA has dropped all its non-Maple Leaf Niagara Falls service. During the summer months, some GO commuter trains will make the run to TWO though.

I did not know that. Thank you for the info.

 

[the_traveler]

I've never been on the Pacific Surfliner - Is this map correct? The Surfliner goes along the ocean more than the Coast Starlight does?
[snip]

This doesn't look right. As I recall, that was the pretties part of the Coast Starlight trip.

Both the CS and Surfliners use the exact same tracks!

 

[junebug]

I've never been on the Pacific Surfliner - Is this map correct? The Surfliner goes along the ocean more than the Coast Starlight does?

[snip]

This doesn't look right. As I recall, that was the pretties part of the Coast Starlight trip.

Both the CS and Surfliners use the exact same tracks!

Thanks, Traveler, good to know! And I totally agree about booking as soon as possible. You can always change it, not like the airlines.

 

[chakk]

Thank you so much everyone. The thing is for medical reasons my wife can't fly, so we are 'forced' to take a boat across the pond (QM2), the earliest crossing is 9 May, the timing is critical as well need to get back to New York by early July, if we miss the ship well have to wait till September. Given the cost we are unlikely ever to do this again, hence we need to try and get as many 'must see's as we can without exhausting ourselves. The advice you folks already provided has been terrific. And thanks re the tip about the rail pass it was a auestion i was going to ask. What route do people recommend for return to New York, we also would like to see Washington DC but this depends on the time available.

Cabin altitudes on commercial jet aircraft are typically pressured to 7,000 feet. You will go higher than that if you ride the California Zephyr across Colorado (9,000 feet at the Moffat Tunnel) or ride the Southwest Chief (about the same altitude at Raton Pass on the Colorado/New Mexico border). You can cross the Continental Divide at somewhat lower altitudes on the Empire Builder through Montana and the Sunset Limited through New Mexico and the Via Canadian through Alberta.

 

[ehbowen]

An "oh, by the way": If your wife's inability to fly restricts you from oceanic crossings, you might want to look into the world of freighter travel. There are many ocean freight lines between North America and Europe and elsewhere around the world which are willing to accept passengers on board.

The major caveat I can see is that if your wife's disability requires ready access to medical care, these ships do not operate with a doctor on board.

 

[Alice]

Yes the Coast Highway is one of the great American road trips, but 1. You can do parts as one or two-day trips from cities you are already visiting, and 2. Don't forget it extends through Oregon and Washington. It really depends on your interests as to whether it is worth the time.

For instance:

From Seattle, circle the Olympic Peninsula.

From Portland, drive out to Astoria then down to either Tillamook or Newport.

From San Francisco, Big Sur is a day trip if you leave early.

Sportbiker isn't kidding about the drivers on Highway 1, probably double anything google maps tells you about driving time on our best scenic roads

 

[Alice]

Cheers Service Attendant, I was going to ask about train v car from San Francisco to LA. everyone describes the coast road as one of the great American car trips, are you suggesting the train is even better? The most complicated part is the trip around the Southwest, seeing the main sites, it looks like anti clockwise LA, Flagstaff, monument valley, Bruce, Vegas, death valley, Yosemite. then pIck up the train at Reno makes sense. I gues this will take about three weeks? Does it make sense.

Your route looks pretty good. I assume you mean Bryce? It is a different layer of the same formation as the Grand Canyon. You might want to add Cedar Breaks for another layer. Zion NP, too, for that matter. You'll be going right by Mono Lake, worth a stop, and be sure to have a meal at the Mobil Station in Lee Vining before heading into Yosemite.

Getting on the Zephyr in Reno isn't so good, you are missing some of its best scenery. If you really want to go to Reno, then add 3 hours and drive to Sacramento. Alternatively, drive out the west side of Yosemite.

There is one other complication. You'll want to go to Death Valley early, like May. However, the Tioga Road across Yosemite is closed during the winter and often well into June. So you'll want to have some flexibility built into the road trip. That way you can pick another route across or around the Sierras and still see Yosemite.