The Big American Trip (BAT), advice please

[Dan O]

Death Valley can be rather hot if you are there in June. It was 129.9 there the end of June this year. Take plenty of water for that leg of the trip.

Many of the suggestions have been very good. I would advise getting reservations for places to stay in or near Grand Canyon, Yosemite and other areas that may be scarce when you are visiting.

 

[Colin]

John I've just realised I did no reply to you kind offer re info, yes please I'd love to hear you experiences etc. also I'm serious thinking that we should consider going in the autumn, (September, Octber and November), rather than from May, would this work re weather etc.

 

[Colin]

Also thanks for the concern re my wife's 'disability', its really to do with her eyes (retina) and violent motions/pressure, hence no planes or bungee jumping!. Rightly she's concerned to protect her functioning eye, so we are being cautious. It shouldn't, touch wood, be a problem re medical insurance etc.so, sigh, we simply have to travel on the QM2.

 

[ehbowen]

In most of the U.S., especially the South and West, fall weather is much more temperate and pleasant than late spring/summer weather. You will also find it less crowded and less expensive, particularly in the National Parks, as peak vacation season will have passed. Do, however, research the operating dates of the attractions you are most interested in; national parks in the northern part of the country (I'm thinking Glacier and Yellowstone) tend to close up shop very quickly once fall arrives.

I'll suggest again that you do a web search on "freighter travel". It could open up a lot of the world to you and your wife.

 

[Guest]

It depends so much on what you want to see.

The trains are fast and frequent between DC, Philadelphia, New York, and Boston, and all four cities have good local rail service. They also have very expensive hotels. If you're interested in the wonders of the urban Northeast and are budget conscious, it's worth it to find ways to cut your housing cost. One is to find a hotel on an outlying suburban rail line and "commute" in.

If you're interested in seeing the "wide open spaces", recommendations are quite different. If you want to see the American South, that's yet another thing.

If you're willing to just look at things through the train window it's possible to construct a much more comprehensive trip than if you want to go to particular attractions in detail.

Personally, my "can't miss" was always the San Diego Zoo, which is the greatest zoo in the entire world by an order of magnitude of superiority over any other zoo, but I've discovered that 90% of people just don't really give a damn about animals or zoos and can't even see what makes it so special. So I try not to give tourist recommendations unless I know what someone is *looking for*.

 

[Colin]

Thank you for the tip re 'Freighter Travel', we will check it out. Regarding city/country, we want to see both. My work/research is related to community development/organising. I'll be researching material for a new book containing case studies of projects and policies in New York, Chicago, Toronto, Washington and Winnipeg etc. but we want to also see the sights. after Seattle the holiday proper beggins and Ellen has always wanted to see monument valley (all those westerns). The autumn option sounds good. I really do appreciate this wonderful advice.

 

[Colin]

A couple of questions, is tipping the sleeping car attendant, waiter in the restaurant car the norm and if we sleep on a coach seat overnight, is it possible to get a shower in the morning?

 

[ehbowen]

While there are certainly varying opinions, mine is that service which meets adequate minimum standards (a pleasant greeting upon boarding/being seated, beds put up or down at the appropriate times, restrooms kept acceptably clean, food served as ordered) should be rewarded with a gratuity. I would recommend $10/night in a roomette, with extra for any special services. If the sleeping car attendant serves meals in your room or runs to the lounge car to make a purchase for you, tip extra above that. In the dining car, I tip the same way I would for the same meal in a regular restaurant. When in sleeper, I leave a cash tip based upon the menu price of the meal I order. Usually this works out to about $3 for breakfast and lunch and $5 for dinner.

If I request assistance with luggage from a redcap I tip $1 per bag, minimum $2. That's a little on the cheap side; with prices going up daily in the grocery store it might be time to be a bit more generous. While there is normally a tip cup or box set out on the cafe counter, I don't generally feel the need to tip for a routine purchase (you hand the man $2, he hands you a can of soda and a cup of ice). However, I would leave a small tip for anything which requires a bit of effort to prepare such as a burger or a Bloody Mary. One caveat: I will never tip a cafe attendant who says that his downstairs restroom is "out of order". That's code for, "I don't want to have to clean it". Send him home broke.

 

[ehbowen]

If you want to have a shower on board (without the possibility of being kicked off the train for doing so), you must have a sleeper accommodation. As a coach passenger, all you can do is book a hotel room upon arrival. If you bring a washcloth and a bar of soap you might be able to give yourself a sponge bath in the restroom, but please clean it up afterwards.

 

[user 1215]

Ummm, if Mr. Colin is OK with the QM2, I don't think I would suggest Freighter travel. LOL!

Bounding the dates to the original desired travel period, you'll arrive in NYC on 16 May and depart back to London on 6 July. That gives you 51 days in the USA. With at least three days on each end of your trip in NYC, you can get away with the 45-day USA Rail Pass, except keep in mind that you will likely travel through blackout dates during major holidays (Memorial Day on last monday of May, and July 4th).

So where do we go from here? 19 May: NY to Niagara Falls, Ontario on the Maple Leaf. You can use your Rail Pass for the trip up to Niagara Falls, NY, then pay for the portion from NY to ON. You arrive in the evening of the 19th. Spend a couple of nights and depart 22 May: From there, you can take VIA Rail on into Toronto (Don't take GO Transit, as it is likely very crowded. Via is an evening departure into the City). Spend a loveley weekend in Toronto. 26 May: I would then recommend taking VIA Rail to Windsor (not part of the rail pass plan, but you would be in Canada during an American holiday/blackout period anyway). It's a four hour trip on an unnamed train. From Windsor, you can take shuttle bus back across the border to Detroit. 28 May: From Detroit, you can take train 353, The midday Wolverine, to Chicago (5 1/2 hours).

1 June: From Chicago, take the Empire Builder to Grand Forks, North Dakota. 2 June: Thank goodness for a very early arrival - you won't need to spend the night here. From Grand Forks, you can take Winnipeg Grand Forks Shuttle to Winnipeg and back.

5 June: Buggers! You have to now catch the train in Grand Forks at 4:52 AM. Continue on the Empire Builder to Seattle, WA on 6 June. 10 June: From Seattle, take the Coast Starlight to Emeryville and take transit across the bay to San Francisco (now 11 June). 14 June: From San Francisco, I would perhaps take the local commuter train Caltrain to San Jose, catch the Coast Starlight and end up in Los Angeles late that same night.

I think by now you've seen enough of our fabulous mountains (beside, you have those things in Europe). 16 June: I would recommend the Southwest Chief back to Chicago and enjoy some time in the Dessert. Get off the train in Williams, AZ and enjoy a few hours in a cozy motel in town. Either take a tourist train or shuttle to the Grand Canyon on the 17th. Spend a couple of nights there and prepare another cozy couple of hours the night of the 20th and board a van shuttle at 3:30 AM to get back on the Southwest Chief again by 3:50 AM.

Arrive 22 Jun in Chicago. Don't spend a night in Chicago and depart a couple hours later on the Cardinal for some slow winding river hugging through West Virginia. Or spend two nights in Chicago and depart on 24 June. [NOTE: This train only departs Chicago on Tues/Thurs/Sat]

Though this train will get you back into New York the night of the 25th, you still have a week to explore. Add a day or two somewhere along what we've already looked at, and/or spend a couple of days in our Nation's capital in Washington, DC. Finally, on 2 July (don't wait past this, as travel will get very expensive), how about taking the Acela Express - America's TGV, Our Shinkansen, ICE of the West from Washington, DC to New York City.

All in all, this itinerary will work wonderfully for your initial dates of travel, however, you'll be up against a MAJOR holiday weekend up to your departure on the QM2 on 6 Jul. In the Fall, the QM2 schedule will allow you to miss Labor Day in September, make your travels, and be back on board before the Thanksgiving holiday at the end of November. And, the scenery can be much more colorful!

 

[junebug]

While there are certainly varying opinions, mine is that service which meets adequate minimum standards (a pleasant greeting upon boarding/being seated, beds put up or down at the appropriate times, restrooms kept acceptably clean, food served as ordered) should be rewarded with a gratuity. I would recommend $10/night in a roomette, with extra for any special services. If the sleeping car attendant serves meals in your room or runs to the lounge car to make a purchase for you, tip extra above that. In the dining car, I tip the same way I would for the same meal in a regular restaurant. When in sleeper, I leave a cash tip based upon the menu price of the meal I order. Usually this works out to about $3 for breakfast and lunch and $5 for dinner.
If I request assistance with luggage from a redcap I tip $1 per bag, minimum $2. That's a little on the cheap side; with prices going up daily in the grocery store it might be time to be a bit more generous. While there is normally a tip cup or box set out on the cafe counter, I don't generally feel the need to tip for a routine purchase (you hand the man $2, he hands you a can of soda and a cup of ice). However, I would leave a small tip for anything which requires a bit of effort to prepare such as a burger or a Bloody Mary. One caveat: I will never tip a cafe attendant who says that his downstairs restroom is "out of order". That's code for, "I don't want to have to clean it". Send him home broke.

I wish there were a "like" button on this forum.

 

[junebug]

Oh yes!!! I love VentureForth's sugestion!

Next week I am going on my trip doing almost the same thing but backwards. From LA I am taking the Coast Starlight to San Jose.

....June: Buggers! You have to now catch the train in Grand Forks at 4:52 AM. Continue on the Empire Builder to Seattle, WA on 6 June. 10 June: From Seattle, take the Coast Starlight to Emeryville and take transit across the bay to San Francisco (now 11 June). 14 June: From San Francisco, I would perhaps take the local commuter train Caltrain to San Jose, catch the Coast Starlight and end up in Los Angeles late that same night.

 

[ehbowen]

Ummm, if Mr. Colin is OK with the QM2, I don't think I would suggest Freighter travel. LOL!

I'm not suggesting it for this trip. I'm suggesting that if he wants to take other trips with his wife to locations normally reached only by air service, that freighter travel might be an acceptable alternative.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Slight correction: VIA is no longer running Shuttle Trains between Toronto and Niagara Falls,ON. Only the Amtrak/VIA Maple Leaf runs this route (in the Evenings to Toronto and in the Morning from Toronto)They would have to ride a GO Bus out of Niagara Falls,ON, Im not sure if its runs all the way to Toronto or not, theres a Possibility that they could switch to a Go Train in Hamilton (Aldershot) for Toronto? :help:

An Alternative would be to Ride a Bus (Greyhound Tyoe) from Niagara Falls, ON toiToronto, the Bus station is across the Street from the VIA Rail Station by the Rainbow Bridge!

 

[Colin]

Wow Venture Forth, you put an awful lot of work into your suggestions, thank you so much. You also make many good points re holidays and so on. Autumn makes more and more sense to me. We have a bit more time. The only bit of concern is what the weather in the Atlantic will be like on our return trip. I'll certainly check out your travel itinery trips.

 

[user 1215]

Wow Venture Forth, you put an awful lot of work into your suggestions, thank you so much. You also make many good points re holidays and so on. Autumn makes more and more sense to me. We have a bit more time. The only bit of concern is what the weather in the Atlantic will be like on our return trip. I'll certainly check out your travel itinery trips.

I've always enjoyed playing travel agent. LOL. I ended up being an engineer...

Slight correction: VIA is no longer running Shuttle Trains between Toronto and Niagara Falls,ON. Only the Amtrak/VIA Maple Leaf runs this route (in the Evenings to Toronto and in the Morning from Toronto)They would have to ride a GO Bus out of Niagara Falls,ON, Im not sure if its runs all the way to Toronto or not, theres a Possibility that they could switch to a Go Train in Hamilton (Aldershot) for Toronto? :help: An Alternative would be to Ride a Bus (Greyhound Tyoe) from Niagara Falls, ON toiToronto, the Bus station is across the Street from the VIA Rail Station by the Rainbow Bridge!

You're right - Train 98 from Niagara Falls to Toronto is what I was talking about and it is bookable as a VIA train, even though the trainset is an Amtrak. I would rather take this train on a weekday than a GO Bus to Burlington and then GO Commuter from Burlington to Toronto (if nothing else, because its a BUS, but primarily because in the morning, I'm sure they are uber crowded.

That being said, "I" would like to ride GO. I have a death wish to try and ride all the different commuter trains that run Bombardier Bi-Levels. Besides, an 11-coach (the new engines allow an extra coach to be pulled now) bi-level train is probably the highest capacity passenger train in North America.

 

[Bob Dylan]

:hi: Thanks for the Clarification and the Update! I have not ridden the GO Bus from Niagara Falls,ON to Burlington !(I guessed Aldershot which is the "out in the sticks" Station for Hamilton :blink: ). I always ride the Maple Leaf straight through to Oakville, ON..

You are correct about the GO Trains being Crowded during Rush Hours and the Fares have Risen quite a bit in the past 2 years! (I get the Senior Discount but it's still Pricey between Oakville and Toronto) I am not a fan of Buses by any means, but I would rather catch a Greyhound in Niagara Falls to Toronto for a One Seat Ride than have to change from a GO Bus to a Go Train on the way to Toronto! All things considered the Maple Leaf is Best! YMMV

 

[Colin]

Sorry I'm rather confused re the getting to Niagra discussion. When I looked it up on the Amtrack site, they gave me of a choice of US or Canada Stations. Also a good few years ago my wife made the trip from Toronto, she said it was great.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Sorry I'm rather confused re the getting to Niagra discussion. When I looked it up on the Amtrack site, they gave me of a choice of US or Canada Stations. Also a good few years ago my wife made the trip from Toronto, she said it was great.

Believe me you want to go to the Canadian Side of Niagara Falls! The Amtrak Station on the New York side is a Long way from Town which is Run Down and in Decline! Even though the Whole Area can be a Zoo during the Summer and on Weekends, the Canadian Side has all the Best of everything! The VIA Rail Station in Niagara Falls, Ontario is right by the Rainbow Bridge that crosses the River below the Falls and the Greyhound Station is across the Street from it for Buses to Toronto! The Go Trains and Busses are the Greater Toronto CommuterTransportation System! Niagara Falls, Ontario runs Municpal Buses and a Tourist Shuttle Bus along the River Front. There are also Cabs, and Rent Cars but you dont Need to or Want to Drive there, trust me!

 

[user 1215]

Sorry I'm rather confused re the getting to Niagra discussion. When I looked it up on the Amtrack site, they gave me of a choice of US or Canada Stations. Also a good few years ago my wife made the trip from Toronto, she said it was great.

You can book a trip from New York to either Niagara Falls, NY (NFL) or Niagara Falls, ON (NFS) on the Maple Leaf. You can book a trip from NFL or NFS to Toronto at www.viarail.ca. Heck, for $10, you can take the train from NFL to NFS. Perhaps this link will help you understand the proximities involved. NFL is a bit over a mile from the river, whereas NFS is easy walking distance. Most of the tourist attractions are on the Canadian side, including the Maiden of the Mist boat tours, the view of Horseshoe Falls, etc. Heck, there are even casinos on the Canadian side. Unless you have specific business in Niagara Falls, NY, I would go ahead and go through immigration aboard the train and enter Canada. Any subsequent taxi rides will be shorter and cheaper and won't involve border crossings.

What, to me, is unclear is when through passengers are border checked. NYP to NFL arrives 4:33. NFL to NFS departs at 4:35 and arrives at 4:40. When you booko from NYP to Toronto (TWO), the timetable states that there is a border check from 4:37 to 4:57. But the Maple Leaf doesn't leave Niagara Falls until 5:45 according to VIA. SO - the way I think it works is that the train goes into NFS. If you're getting off there, you'll go through customs in the station. If you passing through, you'll get checked on the train. If you're boarding there, you can't board until after immigration is done with the folks on the train at which time it becomes a domestic Canadian trip.

Phew. I think I made that a lot more complicated than I wanted to. Don't even ask about how it works going the other way!!

 

[Colin]

Wonderful and useful information re Niagara. Its the Canadian side we'll be wanting to see. Whilst on the subject of all things Canadian (and apologies if this is against this discussion group's 'protocols') , but my wife is desperate to see the Canadian Rockies, would the best way to do this be via Vancouver/Flagstaff on the Rocky Mountaineer. As I mentioned we will be taking the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver (stopping off at Winnipeg for a few days). I note you get a number of options on the Rocky Mountaineer, but does anyone have any advice re the feasibility of doing a three day/two night train ride, either from Vancouver and back or from Flagstaff to Vancouver so we can then go on to Seattle. Many thanks, Colin

 

[user 1215]

I have not been to the Rockies in Canada, so I can't comment from experience. I have heard that the Rocky Mountaineer is the way to go, more akin to a "rail cruise" than The Canadian's "normal" rail transport.

That being said, you'll experience most of the scenery aboard The Canadian, which makes stops in Jasper (around 1 PM) and Kamloops (11 PM). The Rocky Mountaineer would be a great side trip for a R/T from Kamloops to Banff and/or Calgary.

 

[Colin]

I'm reading a couple of usefull guides re travelling Amtrak. I get the impression that if you are travelling in a sleeper of any kind your expected to sit in the room during the day unless using the observation car, is this correct?

 

[jebr]

I'm reading a couple of usefull guides re travelling Amtrak. I get the impression that if you are travelling in a sleeper of any kind your expected to sit in the room during the day unless using the observation car, is this correct?

Correct. The beds convert into seats during the day so you can use them as seats instead of as a bed. You're also allowed use of the observation car/sightseer lounge. (You also will sit in the diner for your meals unless you request it be brought to your room.)

However, you do not get a coach seat for day use...you are expected to use your sleeper (which will be converted to seats for day use unless you request otherwise) as your seating instead of a coach seat.

 

[junebug]

Colin, when I had a sleeper a couple of weeks ago, I was told that if I wanted a seat in coach too, that was included in the fare, and I was welcome to have a seat in coach too if I wanted one.

Junebug