The Boeing MAX 8 Accidents

[jiml]

Looks like the Europeans are ready to approve the Max. Ryanair wants to order more of them.

With 200 seats!

 

[jis]

With 200 seats!

MAX10 spec says it is for 188 seats in two class configuration and 230 seats in a single class configuration. I would be surprised if Ryanair puts in just 200 seats on a MAX 10 if that is what they get. Max 9 is 220, MAX 8 210 and MAX 7 172.

 

[jiml]

MAX10 is certified for 188 seats in two class configuration and 230 seats in a single class configuration. I would be surprised if Ryanair puts in just 200 seats on a MAX 10 if that is what they get. Max 9 is 220, MAX 8 210 and MAX 7 172.

 

[jis]

I don't see what is so crazy about 200 seats in a plane that is designed for more than 200 seats. Tightly packed seats? Of course. But they are no more tightly packed than in any other Ryanair plane. It *is* Ryanair afterall. As I said, I am a bit surprised that it is only 200 seats

 

[Night Ranger]

"It *is* Ryanair afterall." Truer words were never exchanged on the internet.

I understand maxing out capacity on an aircraft but Ryanair would sell places on the wings if they could design strong enough straps to hold the passengers in place. A couple of years ago they attempted to charge admission to use the plane's restroom.

 

[Trogdor]

MAX10 is certified for 188 seats in two class configuration and 230 seats in a single class configuration. I would be surprised if Ryanair puts in just 200 seats on a MAX 10 if that is what they get. Max 9 is 220, MAX 8 210 and MAX 7 172.

To be technical, the MAX10 isn’t certified for anything because it hasn’t been built or tested yet.

The Ryanair order is for the MAX8-200, which is a 737-8 fuselage with an extra set of exit doors increasing the capacity (the standard -8 is exit-limited to 189 passengers). Supposedly they are going to fit 197 seats on that plane. I’m not sure what the European regulation is, but in the US, once you hit (either 200 or 201, I forget the exact rule) you’d need a 5th flight attendant. Ryanair is undoubtedly choosing that capacity to avoid the need for an extra FA.

 

[Bob Dylan]

With 200 seats!

Friends dont let Friends Fly on Ryanair!!!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Friends dont let Friends Fly on Ryanair!!!

Several of the more outlandish claims people make about Ryanair turn out to be publicity stunt antics that are impractical or impossible to actually implement, but I've often wondered what compels people with more than a bus ticket to their name to choose Ryanair, Spirit, or Allegiant despite the negative publicity. I can carry everything I need in a single roll-a-board but imagine trying to fit a whole trip into a purse, briefcase, or laptop bag because anything else comes with fees that could double or triple the cost of the trip. If you're short enough to survive child-sized pitch and everything goes smoothly then I guess you "win" the value challenge but the moment anything goes wrong you'll be twice as SOL and either postponing your trip or paying last minute workaround prices out of your own pocket.

 

[WWW]

Yeah Ryanair -

Take out the rest rooms and galley to achieve maximum utilization of seating in the cabin -
Adjust the seat pitch so the knees are impacted into the back of the passenger seat in front -
A premium charge for carry on luggage -
Seat belts not required - the passenger is sandwiched sardine fashion into the can ( ah er cabin) -
Creature comforts will be on the cheap side -
In the unlikely event that oxygen masks are deployed there will be an additional incidental service charge.
For comments about the flight and customer service there is a circular file next to the waste container in the gate lobby.

 

[jis]

To be technical, the MAX10 isn’t certified for anything because it hasn’t been built or tested yet.

To be pedantic...




Photo from Boeing's blurb....

It had its Taxi Test on Mar 3, 2020. AFAIK not flight tested yet. Was awaiting ungrounding of the MAX line.

Not certified, (corrected in the original) but is designed and speced for 230 in high density single class configuration. That is the number they are using for selling it. The two class configuration claims to be typically 188- 204 (16J+188Y). MAX9 is being peddled for 220 or 193 two class.

The Ryanair order is for the MAX8-200, which is a 737-8 fuselage with an extra set of exit doors increasing the capacity (the standard -8 is exit-limited to 189 passengers).

Ryanair putting only 190-ish seats in a plane that can hold 200+ is what surprises me. Boeing lists its specification as Max seating 210, with typical 2 class 162-178.

 

[railiner]

Perhaps Boeing should design aircraft with multiples of 50 seats to maximize the FAA flight attendant requirements?
The same number serving 230 (5), could serve 250...
Of course, airlines could still order these and choose not to pack them in as tight...

 

[PVD]

Airlines determine seating configurations, numbers of restrooms, and galley options. All of those influence seat counts.. Numbers, location and size of exits factor into maximum passengers, which go into the how many people can be safely evacuated in a given period of time (90 sec?)

 

[Dakota 400]

Airlines determine seating configurations, numbers of restrooms, and galley options.

I wonder if the airlines determine the size of the restrooms. Is it my imagination or is it reality? As the planes have become larger, the restrooms have become smaller.

 

[PVD]

The final choice is the airline, there have been smaller restrooms that are much more common nowadays, fit extra seats is the goal...

 

[railiner]

The final choice is the airline, there have been smaller restrooms that are much more common nowadays, fit extra seats is the goal...

Some of those new restrooms I can't stand up in...and I'm only 5'11". Even bus restrooms are roomier...

 

[bms]

Yeah Ryanair -

Take out the rest rooms and galley to achieve maximum utilization of seating in the cabin -
Adjust the seat pitch so the knees are impacted into the back of the passenger seat in front -
A premium charge for carry on luggage -
Seat belts not required - the passenger is sandwiched sardine fashion into the can ( ah er cabin) -
Creature comforts will be on the cheap side -
In the unlikely event that oxygen masks are deployed there will be an additional incidental service charge.
For comments about the flight and customer service there is a circular file next to the waste container in the gate lobby.

In 1998 I asked for orange juice on Ryanair and was told that orange juice would cost 50p. I declined and took nothing. I out-cheaped Ryanair!

 

[WWW]

Airlines determine seating configurations, numbers of restrooms, and galley options. All of those influence seat counts.. Numbers, location and size of exits factor into maximum passengers, which go into the how many people can be safely evacuated in a given period of time (90 sec?)

I believe the requirements are 1 Flight Attendant for every 50 passengers starting with one - at 51 seats 2 - at 101 3 with another stipulation of
for every Main Cabin Door with emergency slide 1 attendant for each door - the over wing exits are taken care of by volunteer passengers ***
*** remember hearing the announcement of those passengers seated in the emergency rows to read the emergency card on the operation of
the exit door and if not willing then they will be reseated somewhere else.

 

[jis]

Yeah. Since the window seat by the main cabin door of a 757 (on UA/CO international 757s) is my favorite seat, I have the main cabin door (2nd door from the front on the left) opening procedure etched in my brain.

 

[jiml]

Yeah. Since the window seat by the main cabin door of a 757 (on UA/CO international 757s) is my favorite seat, I have the main cabin door (2nd door from the front on the left) opening procedure etched in my brain.

I always found it interesting that UA (and CO previously) like using that door. On dozens of flights on AA 757's over the years, I've experienced them using that door exactly once - and it wasn't even internationally. Even their 767's were hit or miss. BA always used the second door. I'll miss 757's (and 767's) though - great airplanes.

 

[Trogdor]

I always found it interesting that UA (and CO previously) like using that door. On dozens of flights on AA 757's over the years, I've experienced them using that door exactly once - and it wasn't even internationally. Even their 767's were hit or miss. BA always used the second door. I'll miss 757's (and 767's) though - great airplanes.

There’s a bit of a benefit to using that door. Besides the “exclusivity” of first class passengers not having economy passengers walk by, there’s there are practical considerations such as it being easier for flight attendants to provide pre-departure service to them without needing to interrupt the boarding flow, as well as the fact that certain commissary items can still be loaded and stored in the area in front of door 2 while boarding is going on (again, with little-to-no interruption to the boarding process). This helps speed up turns.

 

[railiner]

Any airliner with 20 seats or more requires a flight attendant (the reason for several 19 seaters...the FO does the safety briefing, and the cockpit is not closed except for a curtain). 51 seats requires a second flight attendant. Even the now gone NY Airways Boeing Vertol 107 helicopters required an FA.

There’s a bit of a benefit to using that door. Besides the “exclusivity” of first class passengers not having economy passengers walk by, there’s there are practical considerations such as it being easier for flight attendants to provide pre-departure service to them without needing to interrupt the boarding flow, as well as the fact that certain commissary items can still be loaded and stored in the area in front of door 2 while boarding is going on (again, with little-to-no interruption to the boarding process). This helps speed up turns.

Agreed! They should design all airliners that way, but it might make it more difficult to reconfigure the seating at different times....if they wanted to expand the first class section, particularly....

 

[railiner]

I always found it interesting that UA (and CO previously) like using that door. On dozens of flights on AA 757's over the years, I've experienced them using that door exactly once - and it wasn't even internationally. Even their 767's were hit or miss. BA always used the second door. I'll miss 757's (and 767's) though - great airplanes.

I rode AA 757's a few times to Colorado ski destination's, and they usually used the second door...

 

[PVD]

It may also be a function of the gates/jetways and what planes are most commonly at them

 

[WWW]

It may also be a function of the gates/jetways and what planes are most commonly at them

You have that pegged right on.
With the smaller planes the fuselage is too short and the engines almost at the front of the plane
(The phasing out of the rear tail engine aircraft is making this more and more a problem)
The planes with an extended tube are best for this using DOOR 2 Left - boarding in the space
somewhat forward of the mid-section the coach passengers go right and the First/Business go
left. Some airlines have the galley in that mid-section although the galleys have been reduced
in size as full meals are fastly becoming something of the past - its snacks and beverages.
At the airports those jetways need an extraordinary reach to go over and around the engines
and wings - some a half of a foot ball field in length.
It was common for the large wide-body aircraft to use two jetways in boarding.
That Airbus 380 double decker no doubt used three to facilitate faster timely boarding.
Think of an airplane carrying 10 Amtrak coach car passengers for reference.

 

[caravanman]

It seems silly to knock Ryanair or other budget airlines for their "bare bones" service.
Folk have a choice of flights between most places, so if a person wants a cheap flight, why not?
It is up to the airlines to decide how spartan or luxurious the options are to maximise their income in the sector they are aiming for.
I love to fly on the A380 of course, but I am also happy with my cheap short hop flights to mainland Europe.
The main thing that I hold against the cheap operators is their often very early morning flight times.