The Economist explains: Why don't Americans ride trains?

[Texan Eagle]

(Alright...where'd you go? I went to Orbitz, where I usually go for checks like this, and I did check "Chicago All Airports").

Kayak. I always use Kayak since they aggregate results from everywhere, and oh, I specifically unchecked Milwaukee (MKE) since you said Chicago.. else there are even cheaper and faster 1-stop options available, like these ones-

$104

Delta
MKE 5:15p

ABQ 9:13p
4h 58m
1 stop (MSP)

$104
American Airlines
MKE 7:00a

ABQ 11:15a
5h 15m
1 stop (DFW)

 

[SarahZ]

When I flew to ABQ from Chicago, it was around $250 on American Airlines (it was a Friday during spring break) and took just under three hours. I believe I left Chicago around 10:30 and got to ABQ at 12:15 local time. I've seen direct flights on Southwest for even less, but B is so terrified of flying that even the best medicine doesn't help.

Taking a vacation on a train is awesome. Using a train to get somewhere is not. There's a difference.

 

[DET63]

"Why don't Americans ride trains?"

Why don't Mexicans or Canadians ride trains? Outside of its own corridor between Montreal and Toronto, how much traffic do Canadian passenger trains get? The transcontinental Canadian runs only a couple of times a week, basically more of a "land cruise" that also provides service to a few remote villages in places like northern Ontario. Meanwhile, how many passenger trains (beyond the Copper Canyon route) run in Mexico? Since the late '90s, passenger rail has been nothing more than a rapidly fading memory in most of Mexico.

It's not just the Americans that don't ride trains very much anymore. It's all of North America, and I would guess that much of Latin America (besides Mexico) also prefers to travel by car, bus, or plane.

 

[CHamilton]

NARP's response:

Americans *do* ride trains

Contrary to The Economist’s findings, Americans are riding trains in greater numbers than ever before. Despite the blog’s claim, Americans do not need to wait for the future opening of California High Speed Rail to see the success and utility of passenger trains.Observing rail’s success is as simple as a trip to your local Amtrak station at train time. The crowds speak for themselves.

 

[user 1215]

1) Not enough routes2) Not fast enough

3) I have never, ever seen an advertising campaign on TV or the internet (actual ads, not their Facebook/Pinterest/Instagram stuff)

4) See #1 and #2. Repeatedly.

As of right now, there are 1,564 trains carrying passengers in India. And it's the middle of the night.

 

[jis]

1) Not enough routes2) Not fast enough

3) I have never, ever seen an advertising campaign on TV or the internet (actual ads, not their Facebook/Pinterest/Instagram stuff)

4) See #1 and #2. Repeatedly.

As of right now, there are 1,564 trains carrying passengers in India. And it's the middle of the night.

Yeah. Some of the trunk routes seem to have as much traffic in the middle of the night as the NEC has during rush hours!

 

[gmushial]

1) Not enough routes2) Not fast enough

3) I have never, ever seen an advertising campaign on TV or the internet (actual ads, not their Facebook/Pinterest/Instagram stuff)

4) See #1 and #2. Repeatedly.

As of right now, there are 1,564 trains carrying passengers in India. And it's the middle of the night.

An excellent graphic (display of a complex system) - thanks for posting the link

 

[Texan Eagle]

1) Not enough routes2) Not fast enough

3) I have never, ever seen an advertising campaign on TV or the internet (actual ads, not their Facebook/Pinterest/Instagram stuff)

4) See #1 and #2. Repeatedly.

As of right now, there are 1,564 trains carrying passengers in India. And it's the middle of the night.

Compare that with this- over 7,200 flights currently in the air over United States.

Shows what is the preferred mode of transport among the population in different countries.

 

[Anderson]

1) Not enough routes2) Not fast enough

3) I have never, ever seen an advertising campaign on TV or the internet (actual ads, not their Facebook/Pinterest/Instagram stuff)

4) See #1 and #2. Repeatedly.

As of right now, there are 1,564 trains carrying passengers in India. And it's the middle of the night.

Yeah. Some of the trunk routes seem to have as much traffic in the middle of the night as the NEC has during rush hours!

This is getting a little off-topic, but I'm wondering where I'd find out about a specific train that piqued my curiosity...namely 14055/14056 (the Brahmputra Mail). It stands out as it runs from the far eastern end of India to Delhi over several days (and, it seems, about 2500km).

 

[Texan Eagle]

1) Not enough routes2) Not fast enough

3) I have never, ever seen an advertising campaign on TV or the internet (actual ads, not their Facebook/Pinterest/Instagram stuff)

4) See #1 and #2. Repeatedly.

As of right now, there are 1,564 trains carrying passengers in India. And it's the middle of the night.

Yeah. Some of the trunk routes seem to have as much traffic in the middle of the night as the NEC has during rush hours!

This is getting a little off-topic, but I'm wondering where I'd find out about a specific train that piqued my curiosity...namely 14055/14056 (the Brahmputra Mail). It stands out as it runs from the far eastern end of India to Delhi over several days (and, it seems, about 2500km).

The RailRadar site has a search option on the left side of the screen, enter the train name or number and it will show you where the Brahmaputra Mail is currently.

If you want to check out its schedule, erail.in is a clean reliable site. Enter source-destination as "Dibrugarh" and "New Delhi" and it will show up Brahmaputra Mail as one of the available trains (there are three other trains on the route), and you can click "Show Map" to see the entire route of this train with all station stops.

If you have more railfan-like questions, you might want to head to IRFCA Forums and ask there. It's the AU equivalent for Indian Rasilways and has lot more members

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

From the Indian train tracker, there's both red and blue labels. Does that denote how late the train is?

IR dosen't thave great OTP either, only 67% running on advertised. But Indians still take train a lot more than Americans because they have a lot more trains and they're cheap.

 

[Texan Eagle]

From the Indian train tracker, there's both red and blue labels. Does that denote how late the train is?
IR dosen't thave great OTP either, only 67% running on advertised. But Indians still take train a lot more than Americans because they have a lot more trains and they're cheap.

On that map, anything that is not running on scheduled time is in red, if you click some of the red trains, you'll find some of them are running just 15-20 minutes late but still they show up as red while the ones running 3 hours late show up red too. As with Amtrak, these trains also have padding built in, so a lot of those "red" trains will likely end their journeys on time, or pretty close to schedule. The 67% OTP also comes from same metric, I forgot the exact number but I think it is something like anything over 10 or 15 minutes late is not OTP anymore.

Also, the reason for delays are very different than Amtrak. Here in the US, our passenger trains get delayed due to not getting clear track among the freight traffic, while in India, there are so many passenger trains that they are cannibalizing OTP of other passenger trains. The demand is so high that it's a dilemma between deciding whether to have fewer trains that run on time and half the people never get to travel, or give everyone a train to travel but everyone reaches a little late.. and in a democracy whether it is here, or there in India, you very well know what the greed to win votes can make you do. :wacko:

 

[user 1215]

PaulM - It looks like you have your work cut out for ya! Just kidding. We all appreciate what you've accomplished!

I looked at one of the ads from the rail radar site. Railyatri.in is a neat site that gives a google map of all the stations with "Wisdom" posts. Kinda like Trip Advisor for India Rail Stations. You can comment on local food, lodging, sites to see, etc.

...and in a democracy whether it is here, or there in India, you very well know what the greed to win votes can make you do. :wacko:

Like the Golden Rule: "He who has the Gold, Rules"?

 

[jis]

From the Indian train tracker, there's both red and blue labels. Does that denote how late the train is?
IR dosen't thave great OTP either, only 67% running on advertised. But Indians still take train a lot more than Americans because they have a lot more trains and they're cheap.

We Indians also have much more of a "We will get there whenever we get there" kind of attitude. So that helps too.

 

[gmushial]

From the Indian train tracker, there's both red and blue labels. Does that denote how late the train is?
IR dosen't thave great OTP either, only 67% running on advertised. But Indians still take train a lot more than Americans because they have a lot more trains and they're cheap.

We Indians also have much more of a "We will get there whenever we get there" kind of attitude. So that helps too.

Sure produces less stress and unhappiness... also may be related to viewing the train ride as part of the "experience" vs merely just a way to get from point A to point B.

 

[Bob Dylan]

From the Indian train tracker, there's both red and blue labels. Does that denote how late the train is?
IR dosen't thave great OTP either, only 67% running on advertised. But Indians still take train a lot more than Americans because they have a lot more trains and they're cheap.

We Indians also have much more of a "We will get there whenever we get there" kind of attitude. So that helps too.

Good one jis! Makes me think of the Old Days in Mexico when Passenger Trains were Frequent, much Safer than Buses and Cheap but also SLOW!! (24 Hours Late was the Norm on LD Routes!) Lots of Tourists would be pacing around the Stations and Platforms, checking their Watch, looking down the Tracks etc. Inevibably somewone would ask "When is the Damn Train gonna get here?!" Usually an Indian (Mexico Native)or Campesino waiting in the shade would answer: "When it gets here Senor!" ^_^

 

[Simon]

Even so, Amtrak's (and even Indian Railway's) OTP is still better than the shockingly awful OTP of the British railway network. A depressing 31.9% of train services were at least a minute late in the 2012/2013 financial year, and as many as 45.4% of "long distance" services were at least a minute late. To say nothing of trains that were late but by less than a minute.

 

[jis]

Neither Amtrak nor any of the commuter agencies report one minute late as late. The cutoff is 10 minutes I believe at least on the NEC. Not sure what it is on LD service.

 

[Anderson]

I'm going to assume that someone was somehow being sarcastic.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

From the Indian train tracker, there's both red and blue labels. Does that denote how late the train is?
IR dosen't thave great OTP either, only 67% running on advertised. But Indians still take train a lot more than Americans because they have a lot more trains and they're cheap.

On that map, anything that is not running on scheduled time is in red, if you click some of the red trains, you'll find some of them are running just 15-20 minutes late but still they show up as red while the ones running 3 hours late show up red too. As with Amtrak, these trains also have padding built in, so a lot of those "red" trains will likely end their journeys on time, or pretty close to schedule. The 67% OTP also comes from same metric, I forgot the exact number but I think it is something like anything over 10 or 15 minutes late is not OTP anymore.

Also, the reason for delays are very different than Amtrak. Here in the US, our passenger trains get delayed due to not getting clear track among the freight traffic, while in India, there are so many passenger trains that they are cannibalizing OTP of other passenger trains. The demand is so high that it's a dilemma between deciding whether to have fewer trains that run on time and half the people never get to travel, or give everyone a train to travel but everyone reaches a little late.. and in a democracy whether it is here, or there in India, you very well know what the greed to win votes can make you do. :wacko:

What about all the freight in India? How do they get moved around? The latter option would be better to just have everyone arrive a little late. I wouldn't mind unless I had to make a cross-platform transfer between two trains arrving at the same time.

Delays are totally unacceptable in Japan because there's so many cross-platform transfers.

From the Indian train tracker, there's both red and blue labels. Does that denote how late the train is?
IR dosen't thave great OTP either, only 67% running on advertised. But Indians still take train a lot more than Americans because they have a lot more trains and they're cheap.

We Indians also have much more of a "We will get there whenever we get there" kind of attitude. So that helps too.

Good one jis! Makes me think of the Old Days in Mexico when Passenger Trains were Frequent, much Safer than Buses and Cheap but also SLOW!! (24 Hours Late was the Norm on LD Routes!) Lots of Tourists would be pacing around the Stations and Platforms, checking their Watch, looking down the Tracks etc. Inevibably somewone would ask "When is the Damn Train gonna get here?!" Usually an Indian (Mexico Native)or Campesino waiting in the shade would answer: "When it gets here Senor!" ^_^

Despite all the lateness, I still wish Mexico had passenger trains. Their dominant buses are dangerous and very unreliable, bad drivers and lots of breakdowns. They attempt to cover up the bad situation with large, comfortable seats.

I'm going to assume that someone was somehow being sarcastic.

I was going frozen for a sec, good call, Dave.

Edit: Fail!

 

[Anderson]

Swadian: The buses are reliable? Or unreliable?

 

[jis]

Swadian: The buses are reliable? Or unreliable?

They are reliably unreliable

 

[user 1215]

If you were good with Greyhound flying up and down US-40 in Colorado, then you would enjoy ANY Mexican bus ride!

 

[Bob Dylan]

If you were good with Greyhound flying up and down US-40 in Colorado, then you would enjoy ANY Mexican bus ride!

Todays Mexicann Busses compared to the Bad Old Days are as a 787 compared to a Wright Brothers Flyer! 1,000,000% Better but there is not near the Thrills , Chills and Excitment (read Terror!) that the "Chicken Buses" used to provide! The Best way to ride on a LD Mexican Bus was to join the Drivers (there were always 2 even if one was 12!!! ) in getting Drunk, Pass out and hope when you woke up you were still Alive!! :giggle:

 

[Nathanael]

Shows what is the preferred mode of transport among the population in different countries.

Well, I'd say "preferred mode of transport among the politicians".
Transportation is a strange, capital-intensive, supply-driven business. Very few passenger transportation enterprises are profitable (almost all of those are train services), and as a result people take whatever form of transportation the politicians subsidize.