I can't imagine that it's any colder in Albany than it is in Spokanne, Washington.
The Greatly Expanded Lake Shore Limited
- Thread starter Green Maned Lion
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Perhaps you should do a bit of real research before deciding how wonderful the tattered consist no matter how many rattling cars is carries is in comparison to the original great trains. It would compare to going bus today. I understand you have no reference, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Amtrak has regulated service- while we may no longer have these super fabulous trains we also don't have the smokey dinty trains of the de-regulated period. You had fabulous and awful, now Amtrak has created a reasonable standard that meets the needs of everyone, from tourists, to commuters from the three hour hops to the three day epics. The standardized rail system is an overall benefit to the passenger.
Never been to Spokane when its cold- but it can get pretty damn cold. The consist will no doubt freeze up, but what do you expect? It froze up last year, and the year before, just because you have a bigger train doesn't mean the problem will be any more intense...
sky12065
Conductor
According to CityRating.org Spokane has a lower annual average temperature with 47.3 to Albany's 47.4 but.....
Albany has the lowest monthly average temperature with 20.6 to Spokane's 27.1!
So which location is colder? Well the answer is... I don't care! I'm just going to stay inside warm and cozy when it's cold outside!
h34r:
Rail Freak
Engineer
Joel N. Weber II
Engineer
Take a look at the table of primary census areas, which indicates that the greater New York City area is the biggest metro area in the US, and the greater Chicago area is the third biggest. In terms of ridership, that may be the highest ridership city pair for high speed rail if we start investing in high speed train service and make sure we get the New York City to Chicago time under three hours. (New York City to Los Angeles might end up being higher ridership when you consider all modes of transportation, but I suspect that a lot of travelers will continue to prefer the airplane for those city pairs, even if the airplane costs a bit more than a sleeper and the sleeper averages 250 MPH (which will take about 11 hours), just because the plane will be faster.)
Getting that New York City to Chicago time under three hours is probably going to cost more than a month of war in Iraq: IIRC, the French figure that $105 billion (when their number is translated into US currency) will get them about 1000 high speed track miles, and since you want double track on a busy route, I believe that's really only 500 route miles; $150 billion to $200 billion is more likely going to be the cost just to get 300 MPH steel rail from New York City to Chicago if the cost per mile ends up being similar; and then the spurs to other nearby cities will likely cost more. I believe the total US military budget is roughly $500 billion a year.
I believe the California high speed steel rail plan is going for 220 MPH as the maximum speed, but my understanding is that if the tracks are built with centers far enough apart and curves gentle enough, 300 MPH ought to be possible with steel rail. Maglev has a huge extra cost, and it's not clear that it really offers any additional benefit; we'd be better off spending the money on more route miles of high speed steel rail.
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Green Maned Lion
Engineer
Have you ever priced it? It better bloody well be a great train! I also wish to point out that it doesn't cover 960 miles in 15 hours.
I didn't say it is comparable to the 20th Century Limited. It isn't. But can you tell me, Larry, a more luxurious, comfortable, and relaxed way to travel between New York and Chicago then the LSL on a regular basis, without spending an arm and a leg?
$168.50/person vs. $500 a person. Come on, you can't hold the first to the same standards as the second. Its not fair to either train.
For today, for this day and age of a fast food nation, of everyone meekly accepting crap that would have, and damned well should have, sent my grandfather off with his fists swinging, of people accepting less from everything, and of cheapening everything from love and sex to kindness and honesty, the Lake Shore Limited is great. No, it hasn't escaped unscathed this rotten world and time we live in. But how the hell can you expect it to?
Amtrak does the best it can to run the best trains it can in the environment in which it must operate. And for this day and age, a surprisingly high percentage of their workers give 110% do the best they can with what they have to work with. What do you call that, Larry? I call it great. We can't evaluate Amtrak in a vacuum. It's not fair to do so.
I am famous for it.
I swear to god, I am sick of you using the words "primary census area". Can't you come up with a different term for it every now and then?
Lion,
Well perhaps your right. Everything today is cheapened. Even the people. I do recall as the lounges began to look like plastic instead of overstuffed sofas and chairs as had been the norm, the crews mentioning that the passengers had lost the respect of others and others things that used to be the way things were. People damaged the upholstery with no thought or care, dirty shoes on the fabric, rips in the seats, so in order to prevent it they went to cheaper less damageable seating and surroundings. In fact you would rarely see someone in the pullman section that wasn't wearing a suit. Women wore dresses, even coach passengers looked like they were taking a trip instead of going to a ball game. I have to say I am glad that part of the era is over, I for one never cared much for dressing up, I prefer comfort.
I think what I do however appreciate is well kept equipment.. Well designed and thoughtful surroundings. Those were standard on the better name trains of previous generations. Now we get rows of plastic seats that usually don't swivel or worse yet the card table kind of car Amtrak calls a lounge on the Lake Shore. The diner while not really too bad, is run with a table removed right in the middle of the other tables and boxes of supplies are stacked like your in a warehouse instead of a diner. Who can call that acceptable, not I. Who is in charge of that kind of thing.. Bedrooms with the most awful banging I have ever heard on any train.. Sorry its not my idea of acceptable "Modern" transportation. Yes it gets you there, and it is the only game in town. But well considered cars and consideration for the paying passengers is not seemingly high on the agenda.
Even with the Spartan furnishings amtrak chooses a good well thought out designer could create a much more overall pleasing surrounding. Problem is no one seems to care about it, which as you say is the way most people think today. For instance in a diner, what would it really take to add a few wall lamps over the tables for atmosphere? At the end of the car it used to be standard to have a pleasing set of pictures to give a touch of decoration and take away from the box effect. It wouldn't take much to add that kind of touches to cars and diners. I will say that it seems that even though its rather cheaply done ( uncomfortable bench seats), the CCC car does display a bit of classical rail car looks. But even on a brand new car on the Capitol a month or so ago the lights on the tables were not working. Well you get the idea.
Well perhaps your right. Everything today is cheapened. Even the people. I do recall as the lounges began to look like plastic instead of overstuffed sofas and chairs as had been the norm, the crews mentioning that the passengers had lost the respect of others and others things that used to be the way things were. People damaged the upholstery with no thought or care, dirty shoes on the fabric, rips in the seats, so in order to prevent it they went to cheaper less damageable seating and surroundings. In fact you would rarely see someone in the pullman section that wasn't wearing a suit. Women wore dresses, even coach passengers looked like they were taking a trip instead of going to a ball game. I have to say I am glad that part of the era is over, I for one never cared much for dressing up, I prefer comfort.
I think what I do however appreciate is well kept equipment.. Well designed and thoughtful surroundings. Those were standard on the better name trains of previous generations. Now we get rows of plastic seats that usually don't swivel or worse yet the card table kind of car Amtrak calls a lounge on the Lake Shore. The diner while not really too bad, is run with a table removed right in the middle of the other tables and boxes of supplies are stacked like your in a warehouse instead of a diner. Who can call that acceptable, not I. Who is in charge of that kind of thing.. Bedrooms with the most awful banging I have ever heard on any train.. Sorry its not my idea of acceptable "Modern" transportation. Yes it gets you there, and it is the only game in town. But well considered cars and consideration for the paying passengers is not seemingly high on the agenda.
Even with the Spartan furnishings amtrak chooses a good well thought out designer could create a much more overall pleasing surrounding. Problem is no one seems to care about it, which as you say is the way most people think today. For instance in a diner, what would it really take to add a few wall lamps over the tables for atmosphere? At the end of the car it used to be standard to have a pleasing set of pictures to give a touch of decoration and take away from the box effect. It wouldn't take much to add that kind of touches to cars and diners. I will say that it seems that even though its rather cheaply done ( uncomfortable bench seats), the CCC car does display a bit of classical rail car looks. But even on a brand new car on the Capitol a month or so ago the lights on the tables were not working. Well you get the idea.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
You won't have really wonderful furnishings in Amtrak because its a failing business propped up by the government. I suppose the freight rails paid a mint and a half back in the day to keep things running pretty- and the government isn't willing to shove out a mint.
From my first trip to today things have changed, the cars have gotten cleaner and those little things- like the posters on the Superliners, they make things nicer.
From my first trip to today things have changed, the cars have gotten cleaner and those little things- like the posters on the Superliners, they make things nicer.
Shotgun7
Service Attendant
I know we won't see it for some time again on the LSL, but still, I think the Temoinsa Heritage diner rebuilds show some glimmer of hope that just maybe, Amtrak is headed in the right direction in terms of passenger comfort (despite the coming of the diner-lite cars, which kind of wrecked that in my mind.) Sure most of the paneling is plastic, but they clearly went to some effort to make it look really nice. Just as GML said, it's a perfect example of Amtrak workers doing their best with what they've got. The older style Heritage cars look worse than my high school cafeteria. Crappy lighting, no pictures, and that hallway that makes you think you're on a prison train. The rebuilds are a big step up and that coupled with the redone Superliner I sleepers, and posters added to most Superliner cars has got to be hinting towards Amtrak actually wanting to make things nicer onboard their trains... not just more financially efficient.
While I'm all for giving Amtrak workers their due, the simple reality is that Amtrak workers really didn't have all that much to do with how the Temoinsa rebuilds look. Yes, Amtrak workers did rip out the old furnishings and install the new ones. But the new furnishings were entire kits built by a company called Temoinsa, hence the "name" of the rebuilt car. All the Amtrak workers really needed to do was install, bolt down, and other wise attach things.
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G
Guest_MontanaJim_*
Guest
Does anybody know if this is still the case? The reason i plan to take the Adirondack this weekend is because of the dome. If it is indeed no longer running, i will scrap the trip.
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I haven't heard of any plans to pull the dome early, so I assume that you're still good to go.
Shotgun7
Service Attendant
oooooo.... woops. But still, it at least shows that Amtrak is willing to buy designs that actually look decent.
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