THE NEW MENUS ARE HERE! THE NEW MENUS ARE HERE!

[neroden]

Unless it isn't:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4pc-Corelle-AMTRAK-Dinnerware-LUNCH-BREAD-PLATE-MUG-SAUCER-Railroad-Train-NEW-/161197161238?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2588197b16

Oh my God. That's actually seriously tempting. Our household is 100% Corelle already. I wonder what Amtrak would think if I brought them on board marked "PROPERTY OF [ME]"...

Corelle isn't the greatest idea for service on a train, though. Yes, it's lightweight. Yes, it usually doesn't break when you drop it. But when it *does* break, it shatters into a million pieces and is very hard to clean up. Amtrak probably would have been better off with traditional ceramics -- heavier, but much easier to clean up if they break.

 

[neroden]

We emailed and snail mailed Boardman today. We will still ride Amtrak, just not as much....nor will we "evangelize" about long distance Amtrak travel anymore.....

What is Boardman's email ID and address? I want to send an email and/or snail mail too.

According to ceoemail.com, which is a website which appears to exist solely to get CEO's direct email addresses:

[email protected]

Telephone +1 202 906 3960

However, I suspect it is likely you will get a gatekeeper who may prevent him from receiving your message. Tell me if you actually reach him!

I'm quite sure you can register your displeasure by sending a letter to Amtrak HQ:

50 Massachusetts Avenue

Washington, DC 20002

You can also call Amtrak HQ at 202-906-3000.

It may also be helpful to call Amtrak's main number; ask for Customer Relations; and then ask them to file a complaint with management. This is what I did, and I got a case number. If enough of these complaints show up, it should get someone's attention.

Anyway, feel free to do all of the above!

 

[neroden]

All of the questions of whether Amtrak is going to hell in a handbasket or not notwithstanding, the little change where the lunch items are Lunch/Dinner is pretty huge for me!

I will lay bets that that change actually consists of "We'll sell lunch items at dinner if there are any left over". Which is sensible, but don't rely on them being available at dinner time.

 

[neroden]

We just finished an Empire Builder adventure-10+ hours late, oh well. But one thing that we got quite a chuckle about was the thinness of the new "plastic" dishware. The plates, bowls and cups are so thin (read cheap) that at every meal someone either stuck their knife or fork through a bowl or plate or someone's plastic cup leaked all over the table.

I was joking about bringing my own Corelle on board a minute ago, but now I think maybe I'm not joking.
Everyone please complain through every channel you can. This is just destructive.

 

[neroden]

Rail and bus will never be worthwhile contenders to air outside of the three hour zone anyhow, so the state of that network is really quite meaningless.

Dead false, Paulus. I've debunked this nonsense from you repeatedly before.
Rail and bus are quite competitive on any trip where people consider driving -- and people routinely consider driving for very long trips. I know a lot of people who take 16 hour drives routinely, even when there *are* air service alternatives, and there's a lot of areas with terrible air service. I know people who drove (nonstop!) from NY to New Orleans rather than fly, and the train is extremely competitive with that sort of madness.

Now, it's true that for 16 hour trips, we could theoretically all bring our own food. If there's room in the train. Forcing people to do this will still be quite unpopular -- a lot of people want breakfast food that would be impossible or very messy if they tried to bring it themselves (whether scrambled eggs or cereal). But for trips the length of NY-New Orleans, onboard food provision is just necessary, and those trips genuinely are competitive.

The problem with routes like the Empire Builder is not that they aren't "competitive". They are competitive with the alternatives. The problem is that they're competitive with the alternatives in a market which is too small to really support *anything*. Air travel to Williston, ND isn't really supportable economically, and neither are paved roads to Williston, ND. These things are therefore government subsidized; we've had a long policy of rural subsidization in the US for some reason.

 

[neroden]

When you are preparing food in a kitchen the size of a bathroom moving at 80-110 mph keeping things simple only makes sense. The servers that are worth their salt can easily name o ff five house specials and take down the orders.

You clearly have no idea how long it takes the server to check the ingredients of all five house specials for whether they contain milk or milk products -- a really long time. It's much more *efficient* if we can look this information up in advance.

 

[neroden]

I don't think it's going to take that long. I compare it to the servers in a restaurant.

"Today, our specialty sandwich is Smoked Ham on Rye, and our seafood offering is an Ahi Tuna Steak. Our Soup of the Day is Chicken Noodle. Can I get you folks anything to drink to start off?"

"Can you check whether the sandwich has milk, butter, or any other milk products in it? How about the Tuna Steak? How about the soup? Before you go check, I also need to know which of those have chili peppers in them, and do the sauces contain guar gum?"(Wait 10 minutes)

"OK, great, now that I know that, I'm interested in the sandwich, but I need to know how many calories it is..."

(Wait another minute)

....

I've been there and done that. I do it if I have to. But honestly I'd rather make everything more efficient.

 

[neroden]

(seriously, adjusted for inflation, an A-Day roomette from Chicago to San Francisco was $806.63 and did not include free meals). If you want Pullman service, you need to pay Pullman fares as the regular fare.

From New York to Chicago, for Jun 1, the roomettes are completely sold out, and the cheapest (perhaps only) bedroom is $667.
On A-day, a roomette from New York to Chicago was quoted as a sample fare of $98.11 -- adjusted for inflation, that's $574.31

So, on the route which matters, prices have gone up. The additional $90 should cover the two meals provided; really it should cover three.

 

[neroden]

Paulus, I know you have a bizarre crusade against both sleeper class and food service.

I ask you to sit down and properly analyze the Lake Shore Limited, the train I care most about.

The vast majority of coach traffic on the LSL is going overnight to (or from) Chicago. And wants breakfast.

Recall that coach passengers account for 47% of the dining car patronage, though they pay an average of $10.30 per meal.

I believe they are getting breakfast in the dining car. I believe many coach passengers would not take the train if they couldn't get a decent breakfast. Which you can't get in the cafe car.

Would an upgraded cafe car which offered salads and healthy sandwiches work for lunch and dinner? Probably -- the Acela cafe car is better than the "national" cafe car. Would an even more upgraded cafe car which offered cereal and freshly-cooked eggs for breakfast work? Sure.

But *this isn't being done* -- instead we're seeing mindless cuts which WILL reduce ridership & revenue while keeping costs high.

The LSL currently pretty much breaks even on direct costs as far as we can tell. Lose the breakfast, lose the coach clientele, lose more money.

Roomettes on the Lake Shore Limited are sold out for 6 of the next 10 days. The cheapest available is $445. Bedroom prices go up to $1001 when they're not sold out completely (which they are 4 of the next 10 days). And prices on the LSL are only going up as the years go on, and I'm resigned to that fact already.

The sleepers on the LSL are a profit center and will become more profitable as time goes on.

If the LSL ever managed to reliably run on time, I have no idea how high the prices would go. Poor on-time-performance has been shown to suppress ridership by a factor of 50% or more, and to force prices down similarly.

The clientele in sleeper class on the LSL is much like the clientele in Acela First Class -- who also get their meals included with their ticket price, presumably as a marketing gimmick. This is the quality-sensitive portion of the market. Except the Acela meal quality and selection is, for no obvious reason, being kept much higher -- even with much cheaper tickets, and far more people getting "included" meals.

Clearly it isn't the food quality or selection which is the expensive part of the dining cars -- so why is Amtrak cutting the food quality and selection? This is just STUPID.

There are lots of things which could improve dining service, and they aren't being done.

One problem with the dining cars is that a bunch of people are being paid full time to serve slightly less than the whole room for about 11.5 hours a day, closing during the popular hours of 10-11:30 and 3-5. There's something fundamentally inefficient about those closures, especially when the dining car is packed.

The LSL is actually wasting the staff even more than that, paying them to provide only two meals. It costs the same amount in labor for staff to provide two meals or three... but you get a more revenue from serving three than from serving two.

It seems that there are three staff serving -- but there could be two if money-handling wasn't necessary. Hence the "cashless diner" proposal in the LSL PIP. Which isn't being implemented, because instead some ***** has decided to shrink the menu.

Another problem is the Heritage dining cars, which probably have ludicrously high direct costs for maintenance alone. It will be interesting to see whether costs improve when the Viewliner dining cars go into service, assuming Amtrak hasn't been taken over by dopes who intend to eliminate dining car service without replacing it with anything.

And that's the thing. There are theoretical viable alternatives to sit-down full-service dining. But if you're doing that, you implement the alternative *first*, then remove the dining car -- you don't just slash service, destroy your reputation, lose ridership, and lose revenue.

 

[crescent2]

When you are preparing food in a kitchen the size of a bathroom moving at 80-110 mph keeping things simple only makes sense. The servers that are worth their salt can easily name o ff five house specials and take down the orders.

You clearly have no idea how long it takes the server to check the ingredients of all five house specials for whether they contain milk or milk products -- a really long time. It's much more *efficient* if we can look this information up in advance.

The inefficiency is what seems senseless to me when it's not rocket science to have it printed and on the tables. Plus, many people are "visual" learners (sorry for the teacher terminology), and we'd much rather have that info printed in front of us instead of quickly rattled off. I'd have forgotten half of it while I was trying to make up my mind. I just think there's a better, easier way. Why turn something easy into something more difficult?

 

[Eris]

Interesting (to me) announcement on the #11 Coast Starlight this morning out of Seattle - the Parlour Car attendant let everyone know that Amtrak policy ends coffee & juice service in the sleeper cars at 10am every day, that this has long been the policy but that in "these times" Amtrak is cracking down and enforcing this policy. So after 10am sleeper car passengers can't get complimentary juice and coffee in their sleeper cars but may purchase (for money, he made clear) these items in the parlour car.

Doesn't affect me directly today, as I am camped with my two kids in coach- I'll be buying my coffee from the cafe/lounge. And my leg rest doesn't work. So there's that.

 

[yarrow]

Interesting (to me) announcement on the #11 Coast Starlight this morning out of Seattle - the Parlour Car attendant let everyone know that Amtrak policy ends coffee & juice service in the sleeper cars at 10am every day, that this has long been the policy but that in "these times" Amtrak is cracking down and enforcing this policy. So after 10am sleeper car passengers can't get complimentary juice and coffee in their sleeper cars but may purchase (for money, he made clear) these items in the parlour car.

Doesn't affect me directly today, as I am camped with my two kids in coach- I'll be buying my coffee from the cafe/lounge. And my leg rest doesn't work. So there's that.

it sure starts to look like intentional downgrades to drive away passengers as sp did with the sunset limited in the 60's

 

[Bob Dylan]

Preaching to the choir when you mention the SP run em off policy in the 60s! The Financial Excellence Team can all go to work @ McDonalds or Wal<-Mart when their jobs are eliminated to save Amtrak! Sarcasm intended!

 

[Texan Eagle]

Interesting (to me) announcement on the #11 Coast Starlight this morning out of Seattle - the Parlour Car attendant let everyone know that Amtrak policy ends coffee & juice service in the sleeper cars at 10am every day, that this has long been the policy but that in "these times" Amtrak is cracking down and enforcing this policy. So after 10am sleeper car passengers can't get complimentary juice and coffee in their sleeper cars but may purchase (for money, he made clear) these items in the parlour car.

In all my LD trips so far, I have not seen or heard of this "policy" being enforced, sounds to me like yet another addition to the list of penny wise pound foolish bean counter directives.

Next time I am in a Sleeper, at 9.59am I am going to hoard a lot of juices in my roomette for later use, and ice to cool it (does the new policy also restrict getting free ice after 10am?). YOU THINK YOU CAN TAKE AWAY FREE JUICE FROM ME? HA! YOU CAN'T!

 

[amamba]

Interesting (to me) announcement on the #11 Coast Starlight this morning out of Seattle - the Parlour Car attendant let everyone know that Amtrak policy ends coffee & juice service in the sleeper cars at 10am every day, that this has long been the policy but that in "these times" Amtrak is cracking down and enforcing this policy. So after 10am sleeper car passengers can't get complimentary juice and coffee in their sleeper cars but may purchase (for money, he made clear) these items in the parlour car.

Doesn't affect me directly today, as I am camped with my two kids in coach- I'll be buying my coffee from the cafe/lounge. And my leg rest doesn't work. So there's that.

Well how can I make an after dinner cocktail without the juice?!?! That is BS.

 

[me_little_me]

Well how can I make an after dinner cocktail without the juice?!?! That is BS.

After dinner? What about the after-breakfast cocktails and the before/after lunch and midday snack cocktails? Only cocktails are before breakfast any more. :angry: :angry2:

Now I'll have to bring juice to go with my magnums!

 

[yarrow]

Interesting (to me) announcement on the #11 Coast Starlight this morning out of Seattle - the Parlour Car attendant let everyone know that Amtrak policy ends coffee & juice service in the sleeper cars at 10am every day, that this has long been the policy but that in "these times" Amtrak is cracking down and enforcing this policy. So after 10am sleeper car passengers can't get complimentary juice and coffee in their sleeper cars but may purchase (for money, he made clear) these items in the parlour car.

In all my LD trips so far, I have not seen or heard of this "policy" being enforced, sounds to me like yet another addition to the list of penny wise pound foolish bean counter directives.

Next time I am in a Sleeper, at 9.59am I am going to hoard a lot of juices in my roomette for later use, and ice to cool it (does the new policy also restrict getting free ice after 10am?). YOU THINK YOU CAN TAKE AWAY FREE JUICE FROM ME? HA! YOU CAN'T!

on our last sleeper trip in march on the cs, i noticed that instead of several cartons of juice out for pax use that there was 1 orange and 1 apple. so i guess when it is gone, it's gone

 

[JayPea]

I don't drink the juice because it has way too much sugar for me, but this particular cut is ridiculous nonetheless. And the coffee??? What are they going to do, lug a half-full coffee maker and hide it somewhere under lock and key?? I don't drink AmCoffee much either but, again, this is ridiculous.

 

[oregon pioneer]

It kind of looks like the idea is to force you to buy coffee, even if they have to throw away everything that remains in the sleepr's coffee urn at 10am. How ridiculous.

Hubby, at least, will fill his thermal mug before 10am, or just go without. I'm a tea drinker myself, and have long been used to having to buy my hot beverage of choice.

 

[jimhudson]

Well, what a surprise!,$2 for the new Amcoffee ( that's really bad) in the cafe after 10AM! What's next, you'll have to pay extra for creme and sugar?

And since you're a tea drinker Id say bring your own tea bags, they haven't started charging for hot water (or ice yet!)

Amtrak can probably buy a couple of hundred new cars with all this money they are saving with these moronic cuts in the Sleeping cars and diners!

 

[crescent2]

I don't suppose any one thing is the end of the world, but customers don't like to be nickeled and dimed to death, and it's the little niceties that can make a person want to repeat an experience. I still think they're hurting Amtrak in the long run with all of this. Do they have any real-world managers that know how to maximize revenue? I'm sure they have bean counters that are excellent at counting beans, but someone needs to look at the big picture and the net result.

 

[FormerOBS]

Nothing has been said about the Auto Train, which is the service I'm most familiar with. For the record, A-Train hasn't had live flowers in years. The diners have employed a high quality artificial flower for a long, long time. As for other issues:

SarahZ: Auto Train menus have been presented in "table tents" for the past twenty years or more.

Neroden:

1. You object to the diner being closed from 10 am till 11:30 am, and from 3:00 pm till 5:00 pm. Just how many hours per day do you work, and how many hours per day do you expect the diner crew to work? They are up at 5 am to open the diner at 6, and they are often up till 11:00 pm, or whenever they can finish their cleanup. This means getting to bed at 11:30 on a good night. Then they get the privilege of getting up at 5 am the next day to do it all again. The hours of service law that protects Train and Engine (T&E) crews does not apply to onboard service employees. OBS crews are not guaranteed 8 hours' rest between shifts, and they are not guaranteed a maximum limit of 12 hours per shift as T&E crews are.

2. You are absolutely right about the fragility of Corelle for railroad service. This "china" was the subject of numerous complaints from OBS crews, and it was a real problem to clean up broken plates or bowls. The stuff was glass, and it shattered into thousands --- not hundreds --- of pieces when it hit the floor. Another reason we had to insist that passengers, especially children, wear shoes when walking through the train. This comment should not be interpreted as an endorsement of the current plastic ware.

3. The ingredients of meals can be looked up in a book kept by the chefs in the kitchen. It's a rare trip when I haven't had to check on some ingredient for at least one passenger. This requires me, as the waiter, to interrupt the taking of orders, and it adds a few minutes to the taking of orders for that passenger and everybody who orders after him/her. But the passenger is entitled to have the information.

 

[FormerOBS]

Now I have a question: Is Mac & Cheese still available on some trains? If so, which ones? And what crew base commissaries provide supplies to those trains? I ask because Mac & Cheese has been eliminated on the Auto Train as another economy move.

 

[Bob Dylan]

We had a post on here and also was discussed on train orders saying that the only kids menu items available would be a hot dog and Mac and cheese and that adults would NOT be able to order it! Chicken nuggets and pizzas are going to that bean counter heaven @ 60 Mass in WAS!!!

 

[FormerOBS]

There is now a choice of 3 children's meals on Auto Train: Chicken tenders with rice or beans, plus a vegetable; cheese pizza; or pepperoni pizza. Mac & cheese used to be available with the chicken tenders, but was eliminated as a cost reduction measure. I can't explain why this appears to be inconsistent with what is being done on other trains. Verbal instructions from supervisors regarding adults ordering children's meals (& vice versa) have been inconsistent. I have seen no written instructions on this. Very few written instructions have been issued in connection with the recent changes, so there is much uncertainty.