The new menus are here! The new menus are here!

[andersone]

Fries from a microwave?

not in my lifetime,,,,,

no crunch no munch

 

[Palmetto]

As someone who has worked in and visited many Federal Correction Institutions, I assure you that the food served in these prisons is NOT as good as the meals served in Amtrak Diners!

The menus might sound great, but something is lost in the preparation and amenities in a prison cafeteria, trust me!

And if you take Wednesday dinner, as an example, you get a choice of either a pork chop or a pork chop. Take your choice

 

[MILW 36C]

I am from Chicago and spoiled absolutely rotten with the great, reasonably priced food available here. However, when riding Amtrak, my objective isn't worrying about getting hosed in the dining car, I like planes and trains: but have rebelled at flying unless I really have to do it. Because I like to relax when I travel and like Amtrak, this is how I roll. In the sleeper when my wife is traveling with me and in coach when I am alone.

With the exception of the limited menu on the Auto Train "where's the beef" (steak and baked potato is missing in action, folks) the presentation of menu items IMO, on http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com is really a good offering based upon the cuts Amtrak has had to make.

The steak salad is $23 and the Signature Steak is $26? Wine is expensive? So what! I am there to look out the window and have a good meal on my way from point A to point B. The food isn't bad in the Amtrak diner and the service has gotten better. If I am not in the mood for a large meal then the Café snacks are okay. I also bring some snack things that I like from home.

I believe that Amtrak's food service challenges from Congress are a bit over the top, but the actions that management is taking to curb losses will make the operation better. The Amtrak ridership is growing, new riders are accepting the fact that rail service is efficient. OTOH, the dining services changes will not cause the end on LD train services,

 

[seat38a]

Yeah, no deep-fryers on a vehicle that can get quite bumpy!

Don't need deep fryers just pop frozen fries into a oven or microwave.

I'll take the kettle chips to any nuked fries. The day they get rid of the kettle chips and replace it with nuked fries would be the day Amtrak food service hits absolute BOTTOM.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Don't need deep fryers just pop frozen fries into a oven or microwave.

I'll take the kettle chips to any nuked fries. The day they get rid of the kettle chips and replace it with nuked fries would be the day Amtrak food service hits absolute BOTTOM.

Put me down for the Kettle Chips as well. I enjoy French Fries to no end provided they are PROPERLY cooked AND have some flavor to them; most commercially available ones fall short on this.

 

[fillyjonk]

Honestly, I don't mind the food and the listed prices. I wish they could get a bit more consistency in the service.

Some times when I've been on, it's been swift and friendly and good. Other times it was like the Keystone Kops were doing it - totally disorganized, a table would come in and sit for 20 minutes while everyone else around them got service. You'd ask for a glass of water and it would never come.....

I wouldn't mind paying for the food if I could actually trust the service to be okay. (I mostly travel sleeper, so though I pay for it, it's not at the time I consume it that I pay.....)

 

[neroden]

As for prices, it's partly a captive audience, it's partly "it's damn expensive for Amtrak" for a variety of reasons to stock and serve food.

Last time I tried to dig into the costs, I found that it was quite cheap for Amtrak to stock food. And to sell it... in the cafe. The problem of making the dining cars independently profitable... well, Pullman did it back in the 19th century, and it could be done now, but it can't be done with current wage, benefit, and perk levels. Mostly the perks.
Running the dining car is a substantial fixed cost which has to be covered by volume. The chef & assistant chef are very large fixed costs which have to be covered by volume. The wages, benefits, and especially perks of the employees make them extremely expensive; the foregone roomette revenue alone is more than $300/day/employee, and can be as high as $800/day/employee.

The waiters (whatever they're being called now) are large *variable* costs, because each waiter can only handle so many tables (probably 4). The effective cost of an average dining car employee to Amtrak is on the order of $50/hour, and most of that is benefits & perks, NOT wages. Assuming the food itself costs nothing, each waiter has to clear more than $1000 in revenue per day just to cover the cost of his/her own wages, benefits, and perks. (A third of that is lost revenue from the roomette perk which they get.) Assuming a full house, that would mean the first $7 of each meal is just going to cover the waiter (more if roomette rates are higher). Then there's the actual cost of the food, which I have treated as negligible.

The small amount of remaining revenue after that still has to cover the fixed costs -- this means that in order to break even, the volume in the dining cars has to be very high. Probably higher than can actually be served in a single dining car, without an added table car. Auto Train may be able to break even due to enormous volume and the presence of a table car.

The wages, benefits, and perks of the large number of dining car employees, combined with the relatively low volumes of traffic, are what make the dining cars unprofitable.

Of course, raising the prices, and cutting the quality, is going to cut the volume of traffic and make the finances worse. But less traffic means Amtrak can lay off some of the waiters, driving the dining cars into a death spiral until they can be cancelled due to "low usage". Sigh. :-(

We're seeing the trial on the Silver Star already.

 

[seat38a]

It seems the pancakes have been put to rest for the railroad french toast? It used to rotate out between the pancakes and the french toast but for the last couple of updates, it seems the pancakes have been MIA.

 

[andersone]

happy as a clam French toast is back,, may they keep it until august for my next CZ encounter

 

[STX train]

Calling a place to sleep for an employee on a multi-day work situation a "perk" seems a much a stretch as calling serving food for travelers a "perk."

 

[ehbowen]

While it may be a stretch to call "a place to sleep" a perk, it's not so much of a stretch to call a private roomette (which could be sold to a revenue passenger) a "perk". Back in the day a dormitory/baggage car might sleep a crew of 22-25, mostly in 3 high bunks, with half the car space still available for baggage. Only the stewards (who handled and kept the money) had private rooms. I slept in a 3 tier bunk for three years; it's no stretch AFAIC for train crewmembers to do so for four or five nights (with a hotel layover in the middle).

 

[caravanman]

60 replies to a post in 24 hours?

Gotta be more about food than trains!

I hope your visits "inside" were by choice, not on Judges orders, Jim !

Ed.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Last time I tried to dig into the costs, I found that it was quite cheap for Amtrak to stock food. And to sell it... in the cafe. The problem of making the dining cars independently profitable... well, Pullman did it back in the 19th century, and it could be done now, but it can't be done with current wage, benefit, and perk levels. Mostly the perks.

Please tell me where you can find the financial records from railroads in the 19th century I would love to take a look at them.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Well by the looks of it, it looks like I'll be eating a lot of sour dough bread on the CS and EB this month. Maybe someone ordered WAY too much sour dough and needed to get rid of it?

Ummm... what? I don't see anything with sourdough bread on it?

On amtrakfoodfacts.com it shows that they are showing a variation of grilled sour dough for breakfast special. And for lunch, putting tomatoes in it and serving it as a special again.

Ahh, I was looking at the regular menu, I had not checked out amtrakfoodfacts.com yet. You're right, the specials are sourdough-heavy - I've never seen grilled cheese for breakfast!

I do like the "Engineer" special for breakfast, though - as much as I love the Railroad French Toast, I never find it very filling. The idea of a half order of French Toast with potatoes and eggs sounds great. I hope to see that as an option.

Either way, I hope Amtrak does indeed offer specials on most of its routes.

 

[KmH]

In had the panko coated chicken breast and garlic mashed potatoes for lunch on the CZ May 1.

It was a lot of food.

The chocolate mousse was still available.

 

[the Other Mike]

Having been cursed by being born and raised in New Orleans I see Amtrak food as about as exciting as having turkey roll at Denny's on Thanksgiving Day. Yes, it represents something edible, but not something I would ever look forward to unless lost in the woods for a week.

How long has it been since full kitchens operated ? The 70's ? At this point I'd rather see vendors on the platforms selling local flair much like the burrito lady. She's not a Harvey Girl, but she'll do.

There's a reason the CONO has been called the chicken bone express for many years

Pass me a pigfoot and a bottle of gin, the piano player the dining car is bring me down

 

[jis]

Last time I tried to dig into the costs, I found that it was quite cheap for Amtrak to stock food. And to sell it... in the cafe. The problem of making the dining cars independently profitable... well, Pullman did it back in the 19th century, and it could be done now, but it can't be done with current wage, benefit, and perk levels. Mostly the perks.

Please tell me where you can find the financial records from railroads in the 19th century I would love to take a look at them.

I have seen some off the cuff claims by some authors to the effect without providing much evidence. I think the overall food operations of Harvey was profitable, but I don't think they ever broke out their Dining Car service on Santa Fe trains separately. Of course the Harvey House restaurant chain was wildly successful. Similarly I am not sure that I have ever found any accounting of Pullman where they separated out their food service part.

So yes, I would like to see if such clean accounting has been found by someone.

 

[Glenn]

I have no idea what the specifics were for Harvey or Pullman way back when, but there is plenty of information regarding dining car losses by railroads that operated their own in the 1950's and, by in large, the losses were huge. While I can understand that people on sites like this long for a return to 1950's quality and style dining;..that isn't going to happen. Also, suggestions that LD trains shouldn't bother to offer meal service and instead just let people buy tacos at stations is downright silly. Amtrak's LD schedules are too slow as it is. Going back 150 years to "meal stops" is absurd.

What's the bottom line here? Is Amtrak's food great? No! Is it decent? Pretty much, yes. Does it cost more than a restaurant serving equivalent food would charge? Duh, yeah! It's moving restaurant with an onboard staff that gets paid way more than you average restaurant worker. LD trains lose money, lots of money. If the nation wants LD service its going to have face up to paying for it through a subsidy. Forcing Amtrak to nickel and dime everything isn't ever going to solve the problem. Amtrak can surely be run better, much better, but I do believe that part of the systems problem is that they have been so underfunded for so long that people at Amtrak are just depressed from swimming upstream for so long.

 

[tommylicious]

very well said Glenn!

 

[jis]

Well put Glenn!

 

[shelzp]

The Harvey's had news stands, restaurants and cafes in stations which supplemented the dining car income. Large stations would have several Harvey enterprises in them. Part of their contract included having their freight carried to them at greatly reduced prices. The station restaurants were popular with people who lived in the towns because the food was good.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent post Glenn, thanks for sharing!

 

[Dovecote]

I just completed a cross country trip on the Southwest Chief (SWC) and Lake Shore Limited (LSL). The trip started on May 4 and the "old" menu was furnished. The selections, with the exception of the panko crusted chicken, were offered. On May 6 on the LSL, the "old" menu was still furnished but the selections offered were from the "new" menu.

One pattern I did notice was the diner running out of selections. For example on the SWC for the second lunch the selections were limited to Caesar Salad and Angus Burger. Patrons were given the option of Macaroni & Cheese and Hot Dog from the Children's Menu. Pepsi and Bottled Water were not available. On the LSL, the chicken panko special was sold out as well as the ice cream selection.

This is my first Amtrak long distance trip in nearly two years. I hope this dining car experience is not the norm but I am afraid it is!

 

[DryCreek]

I just completed a cross country trip on the Southwest Chief (SWC) and Lake Shore Limited (LSL). The trip started on May 4 and the "old" menu was furnished. The selections, with the exception of the panko crusted chicken, were offered. On May 6 on the LSL, the "old" menu was still furnished but the selections offered were from the "new" menu.

One pattern I did notice was the diner running out of selections. For example on the SWC for the second lunch the selections were limited to Caesar Salad and Angus Burger. Patrons were given the option of Macaroni & Cheese and Hot Dog from the Children's Menu. Pepsi and Bottled Water were not available. On the LSL, the chicken panko special was sold out as well as the ice cream selection.

This is my first Amtrak long distance trip in nearly two years. I hope this dining car experience is not the norm but I am afraid it is!

Just wondering though - were the diners busy when they ran out of the menu items, or does it appear that they inadequately stocked the larder for the trip? The good side of a good/bad situation like that would be that the shortages were caused by an unexpectedly large turnout from the coaches.

 

[jis]

One wonders how they will ever make any money in the Diners if they are perpetually out of things to sell. Sounds like bureaucracy run rampant with incompetence.