The obsession with the past is hurting the future of passenger rail

[John Bredin]

I don't know if they'd call it Phoebe Snow, and it would be Amtrak rather than commuter rail. But Amtrak has the route on its corridor development plan, so if that plan is funded by Congress, my guess is that Scranton service is low-hanging fruit compared to some of the other routes in the plan.

The route is predominantly state owned (as I recall), and the main obstacle to restoring service (again, as I understand it) has been New Jersey being reluctant to pay for improvements in Pennsylvania and vice versa. But both states are likely to cooperate with Amtrak running on its rails.

 

[jis]

The route is predominantly state owned (as I recall), and the main obstacle to restoring service (again, as I understand it) has been New Jersey being reluctant to pay for improvements in Pennsylvania and vice versa. But both states are likely to cooperate with Amtrak running on its rails.

It is likely to happen if someone other than the State of NJ foots the bill for restoring the Lackawanna Cutoff through NJ. NJ has very little incentive to fund the thing as has been demonstrated by them over the decades that they have owned the RoW after acquiring it through eminent domain from an Aggregate company to whom Conrail had sold it. Conrail was no friend of better rail service overall in the Northeast, or probably anywhere for that matter, and its descendants in the region carry on the tradition.

 

[Mailliw]

Early this summer getting a rental at Raleigh International Airport turned out to be $300 cheaper than the location near Raleigh Union Station.

Speaking of the past - I see that Scranton, PA has a new intermodal terminal in anticipation of commuter rail reaching it through the restored Lackawanna cutoff. What do you all think the chances of a restored Phoebe Snow running thru Scranton and Bingham to Buffalo are?

It may not go all the way to Buffalo, but piggybacking on NYS expanding Empire Service to the Southern Tier seems like Scranton's best chance for service.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Lackawanna Cut-Off Restoration Project - Wikipedia a lot of detail here, appears to be fairly up to date since it mentions things that happened this year.

 

[JRR]

I have taken the train to BWI and it was a convenient way to access the airport. I was coming from Wilmington Delaware and caught a flight to Florida when the Silvers were shut down by a hurricane.

 

[dlagrua]

As the highways and airports grow ever more congested, I see a great future for passenger rail and why cannot some of these routes be long distance. I view LD rail simply as a combination of regional rail lines just hooked together. What might make the most sense, are additional trains running on part of these routes at more convenient times but as Ive said before good luck with the freight railroads cooperating. .

 

[jebr]

I would disagree on that.

Airport parking is often outrageous.

Rental cars at airports are just as bad as parking rates. Lots of extra fees.

Amtrak to international flights in most places is not reliable due to arrival lateness except in places like the NEC.

The use of Amtrak at airports, imo, is for those coming from elsewhere into the metro area (but don't need downtown access) and those who are connecting to a flight. Sure, the Amtrak LD network isn't reliable enough today to have that, but ideally they would be, and if the corridor plan takes off those are well-suited for rail-air links since they should be more reliable. The rental car prices might be higher, but at least they're on-site and usually open into the evening, on weekends, and often 24/7 or close to it. Most off-airport car rental locations are open rather limited hours (often 7/8 AM - 5/6 PM M-F, then 8/9 AM - 1 PM on Saturday with no Sunday hours.) Even the one at Union Depot in St. Paul isn't open for the 10 PM arrival for the Empire Builder, but the airport location is open and ready to give you a car.

They're also often fairly convenient to reach by car, with facilities set up for easy pick-up and drop-off as well, and many also have vendors outside of security to grab food/drinks.

If you have a car, rather than parking it at the airport to take the train, drive to another station with much cheaper or free parking. Who wants to pay as much for parking for a two week Amtrak trip as it costs for the train itself?

I'd rather see non-stop or minimal stop shuttle trains (with room for bags) between the airport and a convenient downtown Amtrak station since that will have lots of passengers who just want to go downtown.

Sure, most people who are parking will likely be better served by a more traditional suburban station. Ideally you could have a couple to do that.

As for non-stop/limited-stop shuttle trains, there's typically not enough traffic (even with general downtown ridership) to justify an exclusive rail link for that. It also throws in another connection, transferring luggage again, etc. If you're going to build a connector train from downtown to the airport, it's better to make it a standard urban-style train with stops so that you can (ideally) get a lot of additional traffic that's not just downtown-to-airport related. If nothing else, there's a lot of people that work at the airport that will utilize transit, and the train needs to cater to them as well.

IMO, it's a lot better, if the train is going to go near-ish the airport anyways, to add an airport stop or build the infrastructure to do so instead of relying on local transit. It's a lot better user experience and there are advantages to having an airport stop beyond the rail-air connection.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Speaking of service to airports, does anyone remember the short lived service Amtrak had to Atlantic City which they extended over SEPTA's line to the Philadelphia airport and had an agreement with one of the regional airlines so that you could buy a through ticket to Atlantic City using Amtrak as the last leg. Unfortunately it didn't last long and Amtrak eventually gave up Atlantic City entirely giving it over to NJT.

 

[neroden]

The use of Amtrak at airports, imo, is for those coming from elsewhere into the metro area (but don't need downtown access) and those who are connecting to a flight. Sure, the Amtrak LD network isn't reliable enough today to have that, but ideally they would be, and if the corridor plan takes off those are well-suited for rail-air links since they should be more reliable. The rental car prices might be higher, but at least they're on-site and usually open into the evening, on weekends, and often 24/7 or close to it. Most off-airport car rental locations are open rather limited hours (often 7/8 AM - 5/6 PM M-F, then 8/9 AM - 1 PM on Saturday with no Sunday hours.) Even the one at Union Depot in St. Paul isn't open for the 10 PM arrival for the Empire Builder, but the airport location is open and ready to give you a car.

Yeah, I've done some screwy trips because only airport locations have 24/7 rental cars. More than once, I've arrived at St. Paul and had to get from there to the airport to get a rental car to continue to Northfield, MN. Same at LA: Arrive at LA Union, Flyaway bus to LAX, rental car shuttle to get my rental car.

 

[MARC Rider]

Yeah, I've done some screwy trips because only airport locations have 24/7 rental cars. More than once, I've arrived at St. Paul and had to get from there to the airport to get a rental car to continue to Northfield, MN. Same at LA: Arrive at LA Union, Flyaway bus to LAX, rental car shuttle to get my rental car.

When I did my New Mexico-Colorado ski trip in 2015, I needed a one way rental from Santa Fe to Denver. I couldn't get any one way rentals from downtown locations, had to pay $10 extra to the Thruway shuttle driver from Lamy because the Santa Fe airport is not in the city of Santa Fe and the Thruway fare from Lamy is only to locations within Santa Fe. I had to return the car to Denver International Airport, which is so far from the city that I felt like I was driving halfway across Kansas. After I dropped the car, I had to take a rental shuttle back to the terminal, and then an RTD bus back into the city. I had the sense to stop at Union Station first and check my bags and day-check my carry-ons before I drove to the airport. The RTD bus went right to Union Station, which was nice. Now you can take a train from the airport terminal.

But not every airport has 24/7 service. Consider White River Junction, VT. The airport is Lebanon, NH, across the river, but all the car rental offices close at 6 PM. The Vermonter comes in from the south at about 6:30 PM. Fortunately, the Coolidge Hotel is within walking distance, but any trip to that destination requires an overnight stay after arrival if you're planning to pick up a car.

When I've picked up rental cars in Boston, I usually use the Enterprise South Boston location. They'll pick you up and drop you off at the station, but they close at 5 PM weekdays, noon on Saturdays, and are closed on Sundays. I've always wondered whether it would be worthwhile to use the Silver Line to Logan airport and pick up my rental car there.

 

[Exvalley]

But not every airport has 24/7 service. Consider White River Junction, VT. The airport is Lebanon, NH, across the river, but all the car rental offices close at 6 PM.

For some context, the Lebanon airport has just a handful of flights each day on Cape Air's 9 seat planes. I'm actually shocked that there is more than one car rental company in the airport.

 

[jis]

At the Melbourne FL Airport there are multiple car rental offices and not all that many flights. But those offices also double as city office since the airport is smack dab in the middle of the city.

 

[Tlcooper44]

For some context, the Lebanon airport has just a handful of flights each day on Cape Air's 9 seat planes. I'm actually shocked that there is more than one car rental company in the airport.

Those are subsidized flights that make money even if they take off empty. Curious airline. Hah

 

[Exvalley]

Those are subsidized flights that make money even if they take off empty. Curious airline. Hah

I have used Cape Air many times. In fact, I am flying them to New York in October so I can catch the Lake Shore Limited.

If you want to try them out, pay attention as we get closer to the end of the year. They have to meet certain passenger quotas in order to keep their contract, so they offer flights for $20 or so in order to get bodies in the seats. They may not do it this year because of exceptions being made due to Covid.

 

[Tlcooper44]

I have used Cape Air many times. In fact, I am flying them to New York in October so I can catch the Lake Shore Limited.

If you want to try them out, pay attention as we get closer to the end of the year. They have to meet certain passenger quotas in order to keep their contract, so they offer flights for $20 or so in order to get bodies in the seats. They may not do it this year because of exceptions being made due to Covid.

I regularly fly cape air from Boston to Bar Harbor. Haven’t tried another route. When I briefly wanted to be an airline pilot, I had a talk with one of them to see how they liked their job.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Rental car discussion reminds me of one time back when the Inland Route to Boston was still running. I was traveling from Philadelphia to Worcester MA and at the time one of the rental companies Avis I think had a deal where you got off the train at Worcester and they reimbursed you for cab fare out to tiny Worcester Airport where you got your car. At that time ORH had only 3 flights a week but a lot of general aviation and air freight business. Perhaps Avis saw this as a way to get more use out of the rental counter there.