The Transfer Blues

[jebr]

Backstory: My girlfriend came out for a few days, and needed to travel back home. This involved a transfer from the CZ in SLC to a bus up to Idaho. Amtrak sells a bus ticket for Greyhound, but through the Amtrak website (so there's an Amtrak ticket.) The train is scheduled to get in 11:05 PM, and the bus leaves at 12:05 AM. This is a legal booking through ARROW, with no warnings. (I did this connection myself to visit her earlier this summer.)

The train is delayed due to track work, and she winds up missing the connection. We know this by GJT, so I tell her (she has her phone on her) to talk to the conductor. The conductor radios in and tells her to visit the ticket agent (Amtrak) in SLC to see if they'll do anything. She gets to SLC and the ticket agent says that, essentially, they won't do anything about it. No alternate transportation, no room for the night, nothing except sleep in the station. Apparently there's actually a gap between the Amtrak station closing and the Greyhound station opening...the Greyhound station opens at 6 am, and Amtrak closes at 5:15 am. Thus, 45 minutes completely out in the open. (Luckily, it sounded like it wasn't a bad night to be outside for 45 minutes.)

It doesn't frustrate me that Amtrak was late...delays happen. What frustrates me is that they did nothing to make it better. It's an Amtrak-booked connection with no warnings stating that the connection isn't guaranteed, no fiddling with ARROW, nothing that would make it seem like there's a chance someone will be stranded for twelve hours (the next bus leaves at 12:15 PM, a full twelve hours and ten minutes later.) If they don't want to help you if, because of Amtrak, you miss a connection that Amtrak sells you, why do they sell it at all?

For the record, I called in before my trip, and the agent on the phone said it was a guaranteed connection.

 

[railiner]

That was a most unfortunate situation. I agree that Amtrak, if selling it as a 'guaranteed connection', is obligated to accommodate you if you misconnect.

I would take it up with Amtrak Customer Service, and provide them with as many details as you can. They may indeed provide some sort of compensation......

 

[jebr]

That was a most unfortunate situation. I agree that Amtrak, if selling it as a 'guaranteed connection', is obligated to accommodate you if you misconnect.

I would take it up with Amtrak Customer Service, and provide them with as many details as you can. They may indeed provide some sort of compensation......

Yeah, I'll update this as soon as she calls Amtrak and asks for compensation. My guess is that won't be for a few days, though.

Also, I have attached a screenshot of how it looks when booking the ticket. This is from my trip up there, where I didn't miss the connection.

 

[the_traveler]

I also think Amtrak should provide some sort of compensation or accommodation. They sell that as a guaranteed connection.

I had a similar experience quite a few years back. I was traveling on the Cardinal to CVS to connect to the Crescent. It was supposed to arrive at CVS at 2:47 pm, in plenty of time for the 8:xx pm departure - thus it is a guaranteed connection. However due to a freight derailment and a bustitution, I did not arrive in CVS until 2:47 am!

So Amtrak provided a room in CVS, right?

Wrong! The CVS agent told me to get back on the train, and "it will be taken care of in WAS". So off I go to WAS. When I got there, nobody there knew anything about it!

No hotel, no meals, nothing! So I cancelled the rest of my trip and returned to RI.

I received a nice compensation voucher for that!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Same situation for me in KCY on a Guaranteed Connection when I rode the SWC to ride a Thruway Bus to OKC to catch the Heartland Flyer from OKC-FTW. Jefferson Bus Lines went on strike that very day, No Bus showed up @ Midnight! Had to ride a Bus from KCY-Tulsa-Dallas-AUS, Called Customer Service and received a Very Nice Voucher that Paid for my Loophole Trip from KWD-PDX-CBS! (Those were the days!)

This is Inexcusable on the part of the Amtrak Staff! CS should make it good along with a Sincere Apology!

 

[EB_OBS]

I don't see anything on that screen shot there that says either way, whether it's a guaranteed connection or not. How can you tell that connection is a guaranteed connection?

We have the same situation here in Spokane. There are connections made to Thruway buses to Idaho and Montana from train #7 and #8. These are also not guaranteed connections and passengers are missing them occasionally, but especially a lot lately.

If it's not a guaranteed connection them Amtrak is under no obligation to do anything when the connection is missed due to a late train.

I totally agree though that if this disclaimer is not present then it needs to be and it needs to be bold face type and prominent on the website and in the reservation and on the tickets.

At least here in Spokane the station is open all day even when the Amtrak and Greyhound ticket offices are closed. They really should do something about that 45 minute gap in SLC.

 

[jebr]

I don't see anything on that screen shot there that says either way, whether it's a guaranteed connection or not. How can you tell that connection is a guaranteed connection?

We have the same situation here in Spokane. There are connections made to Thruway buses to Idaho and Montana from train #7 and #8. These are also not guaranteed connections and passengers are missing them occasionally, but especially a lot lately.

If it's not a guaranteed connection them Amtrak is under no obligation to do anything when the connection is missed due to a late train.

I totally agree though that if this disclaimer is not present then it needs to be and it needs to be bold face type and prominent on the website and in the reservation and on the tickets.

At least here in Spokane the station is open all day even when the Amtrak and Greyhound ticket offices are closed. They really should do something about that 45 minute gap in SLC.

My understanding is that, if it shows up on ARROW as a connection without manipulation (that is, it can be booked directly and ARROW gives it as a default option), it's a guaranteed connection.

I do wonder, though, why Amtrak would sell any non-guaranteed connections, at least as part of a default itinerary (or one that shows up with a simple search.) Of course they can still sell non-guaranteed if someone breaks it up using the multi-city tool, but not by default/a single leg/"trip", if you will.

 

[EB_OBS]

Well I don't know enough about ticketing that's for sure.

It's frustrating to me too that someone, according to the OP, told them the connection was guaranteed, but then the station agent in SLC says it's not. That kind of miscommunication happens way too often.

I hope your friend didn't have to wait too long for the next bus? I would still definitely call Amtrak CS though. You never know.

 

[the_traveler]

That is my understanding also. If it shows on ARROW by inputting point A to point B, it is guaranteed. Unless there is a disclaimer that this is not a guaranteed connection, I (and most Amtrak passengers new and many time riders) would think so too!

I for one would not like to be stuck in Kingman at 5 am, waiting for the shuttle and find out it departed on time, even though the SWC was hours late!

 

[jebr]

The layover wound up to be 11 hours (1 AM to 12 noon.)

Now that I think about it, I remember my ticket stating something about how Greyhound policies apply for the bus ticket. Now, Greyhound doesn't even guarantee seating, but at what point does the transfer of liability happen? In my view, Amtrak would have a responsibility until I am seated on the bus. Even if for some reason the bus was overbooked, I would probably talk to Amtrak if Greyhound couldn't do anything, since Amtrak did sell me the ticket. They, hopefully, would take it up with Greyhound. At any rate, the handover wouldn't happen until the point that I was able to board a bus (at least within the window provided.) Clearly, that happened here.

However, that all being said, the experience would have been better if any/all of these happened:

1. The layover was during the day, instead of during the overnight. Sleeping in a train station/bus station is miserable, but a day connection is tolerable. (After all, I could explore the city some, entertain myself, etc. instead of trying to sleep where sleep wasn't intended to happen.)

2. A hotel/alternate transportation was provided.

3. There were more amenities at the station. Especially in the food department, it's all vending machine fare, if I remember correctly.

I know most of these are alternate reality-type improvements, but it is what it is.

If they don't want to guarantee the connection, though, why not just put a note on the timetable saying that tickets to cities in Idaho can be bought through Greyhound? They do that when mentioning local transit, and it would make it evident that you're essentially connecting yourself, instead of having Amtrak help you connect.

 

[lthanlon]

This now is making me wonder whether I should go ahead and book Chicago-Raton-Denver on the Southwest Chief. The itinerary depends on connecting with a Greyhound bus that, unlike the other two through town daily, specifically stops at the Raton station.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

They need to FORCE the salty dog to comply

Or stop selling bus TIx .

Or no longer guarantee any connection from now on .

" One RESERVED truway seat.

Oh SNAP! . RESERVED . hmm smells like amtrak has broke legal contract .

They promise a Seat ..... as far as I remember NO dog seat is reserved or what not .

I smell the need for some lawyers ... And fast ! ..

I don't see anything on that screen shot there that says either way, whether it's a guaranteed connection or not. How can you tell that connection is a guaranteed connection?

While I agreee it does not say Yes or No.

it comes down to reasonable peoples expectations

this is my litmus test .( its a Joke BTW )

get druink as heck then try to interpret the a website and policy .

if a drunk can understand it . then any one can ,

most people can deal with a site that is made ***** proof .

There for it's Up to snuff.!

No I dont get waisted to do this . but If you Think like a person on some heavy meds then you can see how it makes a good way to guage a website's layout and how well a user can use it .

EG

If some one needs to dig in a PDF to find out that the Spokane bus is not a guaranteed connection then in the Eyes of US the mass public WE don't think that any Normal user would ever know

Perhaps the website should make you read a pop up TOS before you can ever book a trip ....

it takes HOW many lines of code to make a pop up to say ?!

Pay some code monkey a few $100 to add that to the website and we all win !

THIS IS NOT A GUARANTEED CONNECTION !

If they Do that and amtrak's rear is covered .

Untill then There is room for error and room for loads of miffed off pax .

Miffed off PAX demand vouchers and rant about there trips being poor .

And WE all suffer .

Mind I feel personally that the bus Should be guarantee no matter what.

 

[E Runs]

This now is making me wonder whether I should go ahead and book Chicago-Raton-Denver on the Southwest Chief. The itinerary depends on connecting with a Greyhound bus that, unlike the other two through town daily, specifically stops at the Raton station.

Glad you saw this thread, I was going to alert you to it.

 

[fairviewroad]

Amtrak DID put the woman on the next available bus to Twin Falls, so in that sense they did honor the guaranteed connection. Amtrak

had no other reasonable options to get her to Twin Falls sooner. Yes, Amtrak could have paid for a taxi, but that's a 220 mile trip one-way.

I doubt many people would consider that a reasonable expectation. If the connection was truly not guaranteed then the ticket would have

subject to cancellation and re-booking policies, which does not seem to be the case.

So the only part of the "guaranteed connection" that Amtrak did not honor was creature comforts for the inconvenienced

traveler. I think Amtrak should have paid for a hotel room and meals. There was nothing to prevent the traveler in question

from getting a hotel room on her own and petitioning Amtrak later for compensation, but I understand that's easier said

than done when in an unfamiliar city at 1 a.m. And when the on-site agent tells you Amtrak won't pay for the hotel, I would

understand the hesitation. But since she did not book a hotel room, then the only "compensation" in this case would be for

"pain and suffering," so to speak. I think a goodwill voucher of $100 would be in order, but that's just MHO.

 

[railbuck]

" One RESERVED truway seat.

Oh SNAP! . RESERVED . hmm smells like amtrak has broke legal contract .

They promise a Seat ..... as far as I remember NO dog seat is reserved or what not .

That's "reserved" in the Amtrak sense, not in the airline sense: You have a seat on that particular train/bus, but not a specific seat assignment such as 21A. As opposed to "unreserved" which means you can take any train within the validity period of the ticket.

"Self transfer" means you walk from one station to the other, right? How does that translate to an "unreserved coach seat" as shown in the screen shot?

:wacko:

 

[me_little_me]

" One RESERVED truway seat.

Oh SNAP! . RESERVED . hmm smells like amtrak has broke legal contract .

They promise a Seat ..... as far as I remember NO dog seat is reserved or what not .

That's "reserved" in the Amtrak sense, not in the airline sense: You have a seat on that particular train/bus, but not a specific seat assignment such as 21A. As opposed to "unreserved" which means you can take any train within the validity period of the ticket.

"Self transfer" means you walk from one station to the other, right? How does that translate to an "unreserved coach seat" as shown in the screen shot?

:wacko:

Probably due to a limitation in Amtrak's system that requires something (BR, FC, Roomette, BC, reserved or unreserved coach) in that field.

 

[the_traveler]

1344535513[/url]' post='386062']

1344522452[/url]' post='386019']" One RESERVED truway seat.

Oh SNAP! . RESERVED . hmm smells like amtrak has broke legal contract .

They promise a Seat ..... as far as I remember NO dog seat is reserved or what not .

That's "reserved" in the Amtrak sense, not in the airline sense: You have a seat on that particular train/bus, but not a specific seat assignment such as 21A. As opposed to "unreserved" which means you can take any train within the validity period of the ticket.

By your own words, she had a reserved seat on that SPECIFIC Greyhound bus. If that does not sound like a guaranteed connection, I don't know what does! It does not say "1 seat on the next bus that shows up"!

And FYI - ARROW requires that "self-transfer" ticket to provide a thru fare. (And the train and bus stations are right next to each other in SLC.)

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

" One RESERVED truway seat.

Oh SNAP! . RESERVED . hmm smells like amtrak has broke legal contract .

They promise a Seat ..... as far as I remember NO dog seat is reserved or what not .

That's "reserved" in the Amtrak sense, not in the airline sense: You have a seat on that particular train/bus, but not a specific seat assignment such as 21A. As opposed to "unreserved" which means you can take any train within the validity period of the ticket.

"Self transfer" means you walk from one station to the other, right? How does that translate to an "unreserved coach seat" as shown in the screen shot?

:wacko:

Something interesting here is that Greyhound does not have reserved seating on any routes other than in the Northeast (for a charge) so Amtrak should have sold the ticket as an Unreserved Thruway Seat.

See the section How We Operate on this page: http://www.greyhound...elingbybus.aspx

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

I never implied to A particular seat . A18 ect

just some place to sit on said buss a .... Seat ..

If I was to imply A18 then I would call that " assigned seating " .....

 

[amamba]

I thought that anything that required a self transfer was NOT a guaranteed connection. My example is any of the regionals to the Downeaster in Boston. I thought that any regional/acela service to BOS/BBY with a self transfer to BON to the downeaster was not guaranteed, and that a little service alert thing pops up to tell you that.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong....

When I was on my very late cross country trip in July, I arrived in SPG about 3 hours late and missed my connection on the little stub/shuttle that goes from SPG - NHV. Amtrak very generously offered to provide me a cab voucher, but I just got picked up in SPG (an hour trip for my family).

 

[fairviewroad]

I thought that anything that required a self transfer was NOT a guaranteed connection. My example is any of the regionals to the Downeaster in Boston. I thought that any regional/acela service to BOS/BBY with a self transfer to BON to the downeaster was not guaranteed, and that a little service alert thing pops up to tell you that.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong....

You are correct in the BBY-BON connection. There is a service alert which explicitly tells you that the connection is not guaranteed. (Of course, you still have

to click on the "service alert" link to discover that.)

However, that same "service alert" does not appear on other self-transfers, such as the ones in Salt Lake City, Seattle, Portland (OR), Denver and Flagstaff

(and probably some others I am forgetting.) Ironically, the only "self-transfer" that is explicitly not guaranteed is the one that involves two Amtrak stations! For

all others, the passenger is left with the reasonable assumption that the connection is guaranteed. And as I said in an earlier post, it DOES seem to be

a guaranteed connection in the sense that the passenger is placed on the next available service option. But it's not guaranteed in the sense that Amtrak

will put you in a hotel, pay for meals, etc.

 

[jebr]

I thought that anything that required a self transfer was NOT a guaranteed connection. My example is any of the regionals to the Downeaster in Boston. I thought that any regional/acela service to BOS/BBY with a self transfer to BON to the downeaster was not guaranteed, and that a little service alert thing pops up to tell you that.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong....

You are correct in the BBY-BON connection. There is a service alert which explicitly tells you that the connection is not guaranteed. (Of course, you still have

to click on the "service alert" link to discover that.)

However, that same "service alert" does not appear on other self-transfers, such as the ones in Salt Lake City, Seattle, Portland (OR), Denver and Flagstaff

(and probably some others I am forgetting.) Ironically, the only "self-transfer" that is explicitly not guaranteed is the one that involves two Amtrak stations! For

all others, the passenger is left with the reasonable assumption that the connection is guaranteed. And as I said in an earlier post, it DOES seem to be

a guaranteed connection in the sense that the passenger is placed on the next available service option. But it's not guaranteed in the sense that Amtrak

will put you in a hotel, pay for meals, etc.

That may be because of the distance between the stations. For Salt Lake, the distance that you have to self-transfer is basically from one side to the other of a pedestrian/transit mall (about a block). There's no actual street to cross, and you really couldn't transfer any other way than walking (I suppose you could, in theory, taxi, but that may require more walking overall.)

And, in Amtrak speak, a "guaranteed" transfer tends to mean that they'll put you in a hotel overnight if that's the case. At least that's what seems to happen when missing transfers in Chicago. Otherwise people would simply be placed on the next day's train.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I never implied to A particular seat . A18 ect

just some place to sit on said buss a .... Seat ..

If I was to imply A18 then I would call that " assigned seating " .....

Greyhound seating is neither reserved nor assigned. So I think Amtrak made a mistake here.

 

[fairviewroad]

That may be because of the distance between the stations. For Salt Lake, the distance that you have to self-transfer is basically from one side to the other of a pedestrian/transit mall (about a block). There's no actual street to cross, and you really couldn't transfer any other way than walking (I suppose you could, in theory, taxi, but that may require more walking overall.)

The self-transfer in PDX basically just means crossing the street. The ones in DEN and Flagstaff are a bit longer...could be walked if you don't have lots of luggage and

if the weather cooperated. In SEA the self-transfer is definitely not within reasonable walking distance...probably comparable to the Boston self-transfer minus the

easy transit option (but also utilized, I'd imagine, by FAR fewer people).