Three Rivers Appreciation Thread

[AlanB]

They'll keep mechanical in Philly if for no other reason than the fact that they still sometimes switch from electric to diesel and vice versa for the LD's in Philly rather than DC.

 

[DivMiler]

Does the Pennsylvanian switch from diesel to electric (and vice versa) in Harrisburg?

 

[wayman]

Does the Pennsylvanian switch from diesel to electric (and vice versa) in Harrisburg?

No, it switches in Philadelphia. And when it does, boy is that P42 noisy under the station. (The NJT diesels are right next to the open-air side adjacent to the expressway so they're not all that loud.) The Pennsylvanian hasn't switched in Harrisburg for years; I don't think a P42 lives there (at least, I've never seen one in half a dozen trips in the past month).

Alan, when/why do they sometimes switch to diesel in PHL on a Silver/Crescent?

 

[AlanB]

Alan, when/why do they sometimes switch to diesel in PHL on a Silver/Crescent?

A few years back when Amtrak still had the E60 electric engines in an effort to reduce the wear on them they started changing at Philly all the time. When the E60's were retired and Amtrak stopped hauling freight, they moved things back to DC. But even now there are occasions where they'll swap in Philly for various reasons. There was a report within say the past 6 months of one train that swapped in Philly coming northbound. I don't recall why, but they did swap in Philly.

I suppose that reasons for swapping in Philly could include problems at DC with switches or tracks that reduce the capacity of the station (so you don't want to tie up a working track longer than you have to), major snow storm making switching work very hard, too many electric motors in the shop or just out of place for some reason, and I'm sure that there are others.

 

[Amtrak839]

Alan, when/why do they sometimes switch to diesel in PHL on a Silver/Crescent?

A few years back when Amtrak still had the E60 electric engines in an effort to reduce the wear on them they started changing at Philly all the time. When the E60's were retired and Amtrak stopped hauling freight, they moved things back to DC. But even now there are occasions where they'll swap in Philly for various reasons. There was a report within say the past 6 months of one train that swapped in Philly coming northbound. I don't recall why, but they did swap in Philly.

I suppose that reasons for swapping in Philly could include problems at DC with switches or tracks that reduce the capacity of the station (so you don't want to tie up a working track longer than you have to), major snow storm making switching work very hard, too many electric motors in the shop or just out of place for some reason, and I'm sure that there are others.

Just an observation, when I was working at the REA Building adjacent to WUS last summer, it seems like 95 often had a P42 on it when it arrived in WAS.

 

[dlagrua]

These days Philadelphia is just a stop on the NE corridor and a terminal point mainly for trains servicing Pennsylvania. I believe that the farthest run West goes to Pittsburgh on part of the old Broadway Limited route. If you want Chicago as a destination, you've got to pick up the Capitol Limited there and be prepared for a 4 hour layover OR spend alot of extra money and pick up the Capitol Limted from Washington DC. My wife and myself looked into a Chicago trip this June and decided that driving to Pittsburgh and picking up the Capitol Limited there is the most convenient The downside is that you board at 11:45 PM This does allow any time to do anything other than to go right to your room. I wish that the Broadway Limited would return.

 

[battalion51]

You might see an occasional power change at Philly for power rotation reasons, but a lot of that is accomplished through deadhead moves (as counter-intuitive as it seems). These days, if they can avoid changing power at Philly on a train that is going south of DC, they're going to. If the electric is dead/dying and a diesel is the only option, by all means move it however you can. Unfortunately for buffing reasons you don't see too many Amtrak diesels hauling trains under the catenary these days.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Who here remembers the Three Rivers fondly?

(Hand raises excitedly)

I believe I've made four trips on the Three Rivers train during its existence:

1996 (took bus from Wilkes Barre to HAR to catch it, was the through cars onto the CL)

1997 (two trips, drove from State College to ALT to catch it, one trip went to California)

2001-02 (Christmas/New Year's trip, took from PHL)

I took one trip on the BL in 1994-95, also taking the bus from Wilkes Barre to HAR). So I had much more of a history with the TR than the BL.

I used to fly from W-B to Chicago. I never liked it and had bad experiences, throwing up twice. My usual flight was from Avoca to Pittsburgh to Chicago (yes, a dreaded transfer!). Then one day I heard about a fatal plane crash on a flight between Pittsburgh and Chicago, the same flight I took probably 5-10 times in my life.

After riding trains between Chicago and Champaign-Urbana, I found out about the BL schedule which then listed "Scranton" under Harrisburg (http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19941030n&item=0018). It wasn't an official Thruway Bus but when I talked to Amtrak they were able to sell the ticket from Chicago to Scranton via HAR. When I got to Harrisburg Transportation Center, I found out the same bus stopped in Wilkes Barre before Scranton and was able to get off in W-B and the rest was history. I then took my first trip cross country to LAX in 1997. I haven't taken an airplane since then (9-11 and either terrorist groups or airport security hassles haven't made me want to jump on a plane any time soon) and have made three trips to California (1997, 2001-02, 2015). In my first trip, my youngest cousin was a young girl (7?) and we visited Berkeley. I got to visit her last year. She's now a graduate of Berkeley.

The Three Rivers was basically a freight/express operation with a couple of passenger cars thrown into the mix. I believe it only ran CHI-PHIL, and gave some much needed daytime service to Cleveland and the rest of Ohio.

When the freight/express faded away after Gunn found out the Warrington-originated scheme didn't make any money, the Three Rivers went away with it, along with the Lake Country Limited and the Kentucky Cardinal. along with those Warrington/freight trains that never such as the NYC-CHI Skyline, the extension of the Crescent to Dallas via Meridian, MIss., and a cross-country luxury run.

Bringing back a Broadway/Three Rivers run from CHI to NYC via PITT and PHIL is not a bad idea. GML seems convinced that it will return with the order for new single level cars. I'm not so sure.

You're confusing the Three Rivers with the Pennsylvanian. The Pennsy was a daylight trian across Ohio, serving Cleveland in daylight at all times. It ran with no sleepers and only coaches and a cafe car. And IIRC, at varrying times it terminated in NY and Philly. It arrived into Chicago around midnight and left at like 6:00 AM.

The Three Rivers ran further south in Ohio and overnight through Ohio, like the LSL & Capitol. It carried sleepers, but no diner only a cafe car.

That was the downfall of the experiment of the Pennsylvanian into Chicago. Who would want to arrive in Chicago at midnight (or return to Philly at that time?) Plus, according to this schedule the Pennsylvanian didn't serve New York, it terminated in Philly (although at that time the TR still served NYP).

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20000521n&item=0030

I was excited to see the Skyline Connection possibility in a printed Amtrak timetable back then. I probably wouldn't have taken the westbound (leaving PHL 1:05am) to CHI but would have preferred to take the eastbound (leave CHI earlier, arrive PHL earlier) unless I was transferring from a western train the same day. It also would've been a direct train to CLE, TOL, and South Bend (Notre Dame), with the potential of taking a Thruway from TOL to Michigan without transferring in TOL during the graveyard shift. Also, I could see taking the Thruway bus to Columbus. They weren't perfect (either leave PHL at 6:35am or 1:05am going westbound) but still better than the current Thruway schedule. I guess the Pennsylvanian to Chicago would've been good for these trips (if I was willing to get to PHL by 6:35am).

NO WAY can a train serve Phila using PHN (aka North Philadelphia Station). It is in a horrible neighborhood and you feel like you are in an "after the bomb" movie standing on the platform watching the commuter trains wiz by (most don't stop at PHN). I've been there within the last year and I know whereof I speak. That's what happens if you sleep past 30th St on the Keystone in the morning.

All my BL/TR experiences came with the 30th St. Station. I think everyone would agree any BL/TR revival would use 30th St. Station, not North Philadelphia.

What I liked was the late afternoon departure from Philadelphia for the one-seat ride to Chicago.

You're not the only one.

I'm not sure that I'd say I remember it fondly, but then I only rode it once. It was however the one and only time I ever slept in a Heritage sleeper which I'm glad I got the chance to do, before they were retired.

But it did give one yet another alternative to go between Chicago and NY by train, and it did serve many cities that needed trains. It gave Pittsburgh a second sleeper train, it gave Harrisburg a sleeper train, and it served cities in Ohio that are now totally without rail service, and created a route through central Ohio, where no passenger trains run today.

Exactly. If they ever decided to go via central Ohio, they should try to go through Columbus (although my preference would be via Michigan/Toledo).

If the dream train came about, Detroit and Philadelphia would probably be two of the biggest target areas. So my new idea for a name (drumroll please!)... the Motown Philly! So in addition to all the added expenses of the new train, you'd have to pay Boyz 2 Men royalties LOL!

In all seriousness, I never liked the Three Rivers name. Too Pittsburghy. My 1st choice for name has been Liberty Limited although I think I heard Independence Limited as well.

We know it's low on the list of "bring back" trains (Sunset Limited, Desert Wind, daily Cardinal service etc. all seem ahead of Three Rivers).

Speak for yourself. Not that I wouldn't want to see the SL (or Gulf Coast NOL-Florida service) or the DW (or anything to Vegas), but of course the BL/TR would be at the top of my list.

 

[Eric S]

Just wanted to make sure you noticed the dates of the posts you quoted and responded to...

 

[Ryan]

If he hadn't drug a 6 year old thread from the grave, there so way we would have ever known about his love for the Three Rivers!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

If he hadn't drug a 6 year old thread from the grave, there so way we would have ever known about his love for the Three Rivers!

Jeez, this thread was back before I joined AU.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I have just one question? Has somebody told the Broadway Limited?

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I started this Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/RestartBroadwayLimited/

 

[jis]

Of course clicking on that does not work because the URL under it is www.facebook.com/RestartBroadwayLimited/%A0

Edit the post in text mode and fix the URL and it will work.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Thanks for the heads up jjs! Fixed (both in the link above and in my signature).

 

[Lonestar648]

I rode the Broadway a few times, but took the Three Rivers quite a few times with Heritage sleeper and later the VL sleeper. Most of the time I was going to/from HAR where I had several projects in the area. I lived the Chicago area then, which allowed me to use Amtrak a lot for my weekly business travel. I remember the SCA experiment of changing in Pittsburgh, having all the SCAs for the Three Rivers based there. Once the Three Rivers ended, I did get off in Pittsburgh then drive to the Harrisburg area, linking up with the CL was too difficult, so had to revert back to flying, then the projects finished and I was on the LSL to Rochester, Syracuse, Buffalo, and Albany, sometimes to Boston for several projects in Maine. I did the CL regularly to WAS since corp office was in Reston.

 

[railgeekteen]

I would love to see a Three Rivers, preferably providing daytime service to Ohio.