Ticket counters not accepting cash?

[WWW]

The latest the CC companies just want you to wave the card in front of the reader - and away go the funds in your account.
Take care that your card is not waving in front of one of those readers while someone else is making a purchase best have
it in a RFID wallet till used - so your wallet is in your hind hip - butt out of making unauthorized purchases LOL !

So the handling of filthy lira is not to be done for Amtrak tickets - concession - purchases - but there is NO reason not to
have one of those hand held CC scanners - even amateur merchants at state fairs farmers market flea markets have them
Come-on Amtrak get out of the days of Wells Fargo and stagecoach transactions !

 

[Anderson]

Never forget that Amtrak was a Federal bailout to the railroad industry.

Amtrak is not government owned. It's a regular non-governmental corporation that has a huge and growing accumulated deficit. The common stock that was issued to the legacy railroads still exists, but is effectively worthless. Those shareholders do retain the right to amend Amtrak's articles.

That being said, Amtrak is controlled by the Federal Government. Its Board of Directors are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. I don't think they serve at the pleasure of the executive, so as far as case law goes, Amtrak is in a class of entity by itself.

Like I said, it's made for some interesting case law. The question of whether Amtrak is a government entity is (as you indicated) complicated by a difference in nominal ownership (Amtrak has issued a large amount of preferred stock to the federal government as well...IIRC if you take the combined par value of the common stock and the preferred stock, the federal government has like 98% of the total) and effective control (if the "owners" tried to change the articles, I believe that the Feds could forcibly swap over the structure in some fashion, and as you indicated the BoD is made up of Federal appointees).

In this respect, the closest analogy is probably that Amtrak is similar to a corporation that is in bankruptcy and has had the board of directors taken over by a creditor's committee (in this case, Congress). Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are, IIRC, similar beasts in some respect.

 

[jebr]

For Visa/MC this was by design to try to force vendors to pre-authorize and cut down on bad debts.

This doesn't seem to be universal - I have multiple debit cards on the Visa network which still have raised numbers (one issued within the last month and another within the last year) and at least a couple of my Chase cards issued within the last year also have the raised numbers.

That said, I remember that Square at least used to have an option where you could process transactions up to a certain amount offline and it'd run them next time you're online. I think the new Amtrak POS systems have this ability as well, though it takes some time for the system to realize that it's offline and to run the card that way.

Company policy

While I understand the rationale from Amtrak's perspective, I think it's a bad move particularly when Amtrak is running a cashless operation. At minimum, prepaid/gift cards should be allowed when there's a network connection (which should at least be available at/near most station stops) and validation can be done immediately. Bank-issued debit cards aren't universal (typically requiring the ability to pass a ChexSystems check) and credit cards aren't any better. If I had purchased a prepaid card from the machine at an Amtrak station and it didn't work at all on board, I'd be pretty peeved (particularly if it was a longer trip where I needed to purchase some food along the way.)

 

[OBS]

This doesn't seem to be universal - I have multiple debit cards on the Visa network which still have raised numbers (one issued within the last month and another within the last year) and at least a couple of my Chase cards issued within the last year also have the raised numbers.

That said, I remember that Square at least used to have an option where you could process transactions up to a certain amount offline and it'd run them next time you're online. I think the new Amtrak POS systems have this ability as well, though it takes some time for the system to realize that it's offline and to run the card that way.



While I understand the rationale from Amtrak's perspective, I think it's a bad move particularly when Amtrak is running a cashless operation. At minimum, prepaid/gift cards should be allowed when there's a network connection (which should at least be available at/near most station stops) and validation can be done immediately. Bank-issued debit cards aren't universal (typically requiring the ability to pass a ChexSystems check) and credit cards aren't any better. If I had purchased a prepaid card from the machine at an Amtrak station and it didn't work at all on board, I'd be pretty peeved (particularly if it was a longer trip where I needed to purchase some food along the way.)

Despite the "company policy" I would sometimes offer to "try" a prepaid/gift card, if my CC machine was showing a strong signal (if it couldn't get thru to process it the machine would ask if I want to store the charge for later and I would say "No" and refuse the card). However, my experience shows a lot of these people have no idea if any credit is available, the charge for $10 won't go thru (declined) so then the patron wants me to try $5.00 and see if that will go thru, etc. It just becomes more trouble than it is worth...

 

[TheVig]

I'm greatful I don't have to bother with gift card shenanigans. As far as using my bank debit cards with a Visa or MC logo, I never use those for day to day purchases either. I like to minimize direct exposure to my cash liquidity in my bank accounts. I'd rather fight a fraudulent purchase issue on a traditional credit card, then something directly tied to my bank accounts.

I use traditional credit cards for all my spend, including Amtrak onboard purchases, and have never had an issue regardless if they've had a signal or not on their POS terminals.

To each their own.

 

[jis]

I'm grateful I don't have to bother with gift card shenanigans. As far as using my bank debit cards with a Visa or MC logo, I never use those for day to day purchases either. I like to minimize direct exposure to my cash liquidity in my bank accounts. I'd rather fight a fraudulent purchase issue on a traditional credit card, then something directly tied to my bank accounts.

I use traditional credit cards for all my spend, including Amtrak onboard purchases, and have never had an issue regardless if they've had a signal or not on their POS terminals.

To each their own.

Likewise. The only place where I use my bank debit card is at a bank ATM to withdraw cash. Otherwise it stays under lock and key.

All my day to day spend happens on credit cards, and I have never had any problem on board a train or a plane. Specially, given the discounts that one gets on trains and planes for on board purchases if done using the appropriate affinity credit card, it seems kind of silly not to avail of that. Net net my annual fee is always completely paid for and then some.

 

[Nick Farr]

This doesn't seem to be universal - I have multiple debit cards on the Visa network which still have raised numbers (one issued within the last month and another within the last year) and at least a couple of my Chase cards issued within the last year also have the raised numbers.

I've seen recently issued Visa/MCs without the EMV chips on them. Nothing is universal, even if they say it is. The raised numbers issue comes down to many different factors, most of which involve the network's need for security over the bank's need for marketing points.

That said, I remember that Square at least used to have an option where you could process transactions up to a certain amount offline and it'd run them next time you're online. I think the new Amtrak POS systems have this ability as well, though it takes some time for the system to realize that it's offline and to run the card that way.

Almost all the EMV capable POS systems have this capability, though sometimes the vendor or their bank will need to enable it specifically.

 

[Nick Farr]

The question of whether Amtrak is a government entity is (as you indicated) complicated by a difference in nominal ownership (Amtrak has issued a large amount of preferred stock to the federal government as well...

The closest analogy is not actually Fannie or Freddie, it's the US Postal Service.

Amtrak is not a government entity at all, it's a government-subsidized private entity. You bring claims against it like you would a normal entity, it's not subject to the Federal Tort Claims Act, and it's free in and of itself to lobby Congress as it sees fit like any other private entity.

The preferred stock to the government is basically an implicit guarantee that if Amtrak ever does make a profit, that profit goes back to the US Treasury.

 

[CTANut]

Does the cafe/dining car accept apple pay? I noticed the cafe car had a new reader that worked with a contactless card. Also, why does the cafe/diner not accept Amtrak gift cards? It seems that the ticket offices manage to do it with their POS readers, so why can't the cafe do it. I have seen Subways at truck stops that use the truck stop POS system, but they still have a separate reader for the gift cards.

 

[jis]

I suspect that Gift Cards like Debit Cards cannot be used in places where there may be deferred authorization involved, like in a mobile cafe/diner which maybe outside wireless network range for extended periods.

 

[dwebarts]

Does the cafe/dining car accept apple pay? I noticed the cafe car had a new reader that worked with a contactless card. Also, why does the cafe/diner not accept Amtrak gift cards? It seems that the ticket offices manage to do it with their POS readers, so why can't the cafe do it. I have seen Subways at truck stops that use the truck stop POS system, but they still have a separate reader for the gift cards.

I've used Apple Pay in the Cafe Car (NEC) several times without issue. Jis is likely right for the gift card situation.

 

[Triley]

Does the cafe/dining car accept apple pay? I noticed the cafe car had a new reader that worked with a contactless card. Also, why does the cafe/diner not accept Amtrak gift cards? It seems that the ticket offices manage to do it with their POS readers, so why can't the cafe do it. I have seen Subways at truck stops that use the truck stop POS system, but they still have a separate reader for the gift cards.

Yes, IF the train is equipped with the new POS, we may take contactless payment, including Apple Pay. However, not all trains have had the POS rolled out yet, so I would recommend that folks come prepared with a physical card on hand, for the time being.