To Coast (Starlight) or Not to Coast?

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T

Texan Eagle

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I'm in that typical railfan's dilemma of interest vs practicality and look for some pro tips. I have to travel from LA to San Jose on the Monday after Thanksgiving long weekend. Checking my options I see CS is currently selling at one of the not-too-expensive buckets at $84. Alternately there is the newly introduced "Greyhound Express" service costing $50, or I can stay back longer with my friends and get an evening flight for $85.

My question is- considering the time of the year (Monday right after TG long weekend), which option would make the most sense? Is the scenery on the Starlight spectacular enough to keep me entertained in coach for 10 hours? Or should I leave this trip for some other day when I can do sleeper with (hopefully) PPC in the consist and instead opt for Greyhound Express service taking 6 hr 30 min? Will there be terrible traffic on I-5/US-101 (which route Greyhound takes?) that might increase that journey to 8-9 hours? Or just stay back till the evening and endure a short one hour flight and be done with it? Suggestions, suggestions please :)
 
Hi,

To be fair, I think this is one of those questions where it comes down to your individual preferences, I don't think there is one "best option"...

The coastal scenery on some of that stretch of track is interesting, but not mindblowing... My own (strictly non-pro!) preference would be to enjoy the train ride, you can always duplicate the trip another time in sleeper if you wish.

I enjoy bus rides, but as you say, that could be busy and would be my last option in this case.

Ed :cool:
 
Greyhound serves both I-5/US-99, and US-101, you have to look at the schedule (list of cities served) for each departure time. That is the time difference you noticed. There was still some re-paving on I-5 last week but it has never taken me very long to get through it. Generally, the only bad traffic on either route will be in LA and SJ, especially at rush hour.

I think the CS is scenic and worth the time. Besides the coast up to Gaviota, you have Cuesta Grade, various agriculture, wetlands, and a whole bunch of cute towns (interesting architecture) that look broke. After dark is harder but I still find plenty to stay entertained. (Disclosure: I carry a scanner, but no books, music, movies, etc.)

If you are seriously considering a bus, take the San Joaquin or Surfliner instead. Both have significant Ambus sections but you'd still get some train.
 
I had a similuar delima. This December I am using up some use or loose vacation and decided to cash in some Amtrak points. I am flying to Chicago (not quite enough points for a 3 zone trip as I have a segment later on). I am taking the EB to Seattle (staying with family) then in the brief window that you can use points (on christmas day) I am taking the CS to Oakland. to stay with a firend. At that point my delima kicked in. I am ending my trip (visiting another friend) in San Diego. Do I fly or train down. To take the train would mean I would have to leave early in the morning and arrive late at night and depending on the route I took, it would involve a bus (ugh!). I opted for a cheap direct flight from SFO to SAN. That would give me more time to hang out. Also I figured I was getting plenty of train time on this trip. Finally I am flying home on New years eve as I am a cheapscape who really dosen't get excited about New Years celebrations.

All the rail segments are in a sleeper. I am quite excited about the trip.
 
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i would recommend the cs. get a seat on the oceanside in the ssl as soon as your ticket is scanned. it's a great ride. cuesta pass north from slo with it's horseshoe curve is also not to be missed. plus you get to hang out in laus while waiting for your train
 
Coach can be a little bit of a stretch, but it is far from enough to dissuade me against taking the Starlight. If you have the time, I'd take the train. With the bus, you're just not going to be as comfortable. And I-5 just plain sucks, no matter if you are the one driving or you're riding as a passenger. Just my personal opinion, but I've taken the CS many times and it really never truly gets old.
 
Train.

Relax. Read. Look at Scenery (nice but not drop dead gorgeous). Have a Beer. Lunch/Dinner. Leg Room.

ArfArf will be more cramped not the quality of ride.

If you like being treated like a sardine in an aluminum can go air.

Besides the above the other issue is connecting to Rail/Bus/Air at LA and SJ... that may actually make a serious difference in time and expense.

Dont worry about the sleeper and the Parlor Car. Very nice but coach should be just fine on the CS for a 10 hour trip.
 
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I have not been on the CS south of Martinez so will not comment on the ocean views. If your main concern is to get from Los Anagles to San Jose, take the 5815 bus to Bakersfield, the 715 San Joaquin up through the Central Valley to Stockton and the 3715 bus Stockton to San Jose. You will arrive in San Jose 40 to 50 minutes before the CS (maybe more).

The bus leaves LAX 20 minutes after the CS leaves. The fare is exactly the same.
 
Here's my take:

Want a long, relaxing ride? Go with the CS. Even Coach is comfortable.

Want to save money and some time? Go with Greyhound. I hear that on some of those runs they now have the D4505, which are the BEST buses around! That's the bus of my avatar. BTW, you could go with of the slow runs, they take more time but are much more scenic. Those probably use a refurbished 102DL3, which is still great.

Want a fast haul in a hated narrowbody? Fly for more money then everything else!
 
If I had the time to do it on the ground, it would be a no-brainer. Coast Starlight.

The bus-train-bus Tom Fuller suggested? No way. It would be worth an extra hour or two not to have to make two changes on the way. Plus, the seating on the Starlight is better than that on teh Amtrak-California cars.

If saving time but not to fly? Go Greyhound. So it is 6 1/2 hours of bus time. But to do the bus-train-bus would give you around 5 hours of bus time.
 
George Harris said:
If I had the time to do it on the ground, it would be a no-brainer. Coast Starlight.

The bus-train-bus Tom Fuller suggested? No way. It would be worth an extra hour or two not to have to make two changes on the way. Plus, the seating on the Starlight is better than that on teh Amtrak-California cars.

If saving time but not to fly? Go Greyhound. So it is 6 1/2 hours of bus time. But to do the bus-train-bus would give you around 5 hours of bus time.
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I agree that the bus-train-bus is a bad idea.
 
The CS is probably my favorite Amtrak train thus far. I would absolutely take the CS over a bus any day of the week. I also like planes but if I was traveling exclusively along the West Coast I'd probably take the CS over a flight unless I was pressed for time or the CS didn't work with my schedule.
 
Well... it really depends on your priorities. Are you looking at a day-long trip on the train, economic convenience, or cost-efficient travel?

I am a fan of the CS but realistically I go back and forth between the Bay Area and Oxnard/Ventura area frequently, sometimes as often as once a week on my "weekend" from work. I often don't have all day to spend into the nighttime hours on the train. Plus the Northbound Coast Starlight has been pretty delay prone leaving southern California on the way to the Bay Area (loses about 30 min. - 3 hours in my recent experience).

Since I travel on a work schedule I have found that there are many options using Amtrak. What I might suggest (if you don't mind leaving LA early) is taking Train 761 from LAX to SLO and Bus 4761 from SLO to San Jose. You get all the scenery on board the train from Ventura to San Luis Obispo and you shave an hour off the travel time by taking the bus (about 4 hours from SLO to SJC). The buses they have are rather comfortable depending on which one they are using on that trip that day. I haven't had any major problems with that routing.

You get the most scenic parts of the CS on the coast, you save some time (4 hrs. from SLO to SJC compared to almost 5), plus the fare is lower too.

Now, yes, I'd prefer a train generally but there are plenty of options along the coast that cost a bit less than the Coast Starlight while still providing some time on the train. And I haven't had any major issues with the buses or bus contract operator either. Generally very nice equipment.
 
roadman3313 said:
Well... it really depends on your priorities. Are you looking at a day-long trip on the train, economic convenience, or cost-efficient travel?

I am a fan of the CS but realistically I go back and forth between the Bay Area and Oxnard/Ventura area frequently, sometimes as often as once a week on my "weekend" from work. I often don't have all day to spend into the nighttime hours on the train. Plus the Northbound Coast Starlight has been pretty delay prone leaving southern California on the way to the Bay Area (loses about 30 min. - 3 hours in my recent experience).

Since I travel on a work schedule I have found that there are many options using Amtrak. What I might suggest (if you don't mind leaving LA early) is taking Train 761 from LAX to SLO and Bus 4761 from SLO to San Jose. You get all the scenery on board the train from Ventura to San Luis Obispo and you shave an hour off the travel time by taking the bus (about 4 hours from SLO to SJC). The buses they have are rather comfortable depending on which one they are using on that trip that day. I haven't had any major problems with that routing.

You get the most scenic parts of the CS on the coast, you save some time (4 hrs. from SLO to SJC compared to almost 5), plus the fare is lower too.

Now, yes, I'd prefer a train generally but there are plenty of options along the coast that cost a bit less than the Coast Starlight while still providing some time on the train. And I haven't had any major issues with the buses or bus contract operator either. Generally very nice equipment.
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In my opinion the whole-bus option is better than a combo. D4505s are also much better than the imported ones operated by Amtrak's contractor.
 
Either-or. I was just trying to get that coastal scenery on that segment of train travel as well. I'm not really into long distance bus trips and the buses work for me as I usually take the overnight and just sleep. I work in public transit and see buses almost every day so trains are quite a nice break sometimes :)
 
roadman3313 said:
Either-or. I was just trying to get that coastal scenery on that segment of train travel as well. I'm not really into long distance bus trips and the buses work for me as I usually take the overnight and just sleep. I work in public transit and see buses almost every day so trains are quite a nice break sometimes :)
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The problem is that 761, the train you are talking about, is much less comfrtable than the CS and probably not much different from a good bus.
 
They do use the Amfleet equipment on the 761 (it is hit or miss as they have also been rotating the single level equipment on the "Express" train), and the Superliners on the Surfliner use the short distance seating with no legrests, but it isn't a uncomfortable as a bus. You can still move around and there still is the cafe car. The Amfleet windows are smaller but north of Ventura if you pay attention to people leaving at stops, there should be no problem in snagging that ocean-side seat. It's not as nice as looking at it through a Sightseer Lounge car, but it's not worse than sitting on a bus down I-5 or US 101.
 
I guess I don't mind the Amfleet Equipment. The seats have tray tables for my computer and the wi-fi works. The bus also has wi-fi so that works for me if I ride during the day. For me it is more of a commute than a leisure trip more often than not so I just travel at the time that works in my schedule. The CS often has more kids, tourists, and people who are not good seat mates so sometimes I choose not to take it. It arrives back into the Bay Area too late as I have the worst luck and seem to ride the days it is at least an hour or two late.

Some days though I want to eat in the Dining Car and pretend like I'm on a vacation or just relax and sleep for a good price. Those times I'll look at the Coast Starlight. I've even taken the CS just to get a nice breakfast when I commuted from Sacramento to Emeryville some days instead of using my 10-ride pass on the Capitol Corridor.

Again, I was just thinking practical. Get scenery at a lower cost than the CS. I don't ever really use the foot rest so it doesn't matter to me. I don't really recline the seats either. I personally just prefer corridor trains as my trips are usually shorter and time and productivity are more important.

If I go on vacation I go with a travel companion and get a roomette. Took the Cascades just to take a Talgo. I love trains and want to work more with trains than I have in the past. But practicality is also important. Vacation is one thing but traveling to get from point A to point B in a day is another.

Factor decisions based on price, time, and schedule. Try to include things you want to do but also work within what is realistic. Follow your personal preferences!

Trains or Buses... either way a great alternative to help the environment and promote/support transportation. :)
 
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calwatch said:
They do use the Amfleet equipment on the 761 (it is hit or miss as they have also been rotating the single level equipment on the "Express" train), and the Superliners on the Surfliner use the short distance seating with no legrests, but it isn't a uncomfortable as a bus. You can still move around and there still is the cafe car. The Amfleet windows are smaller but north of Ventura if you pay attention to people leaving at stops, there should be no problem in snagging that ocean-side seat. It's not as nice as looking at it through a Sightseer Lounge car, but it's not worse than sitting on a bus down I-5 or US 101.
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Looks like you haven't taken a D4505. Those are perfectly fine for a 7-hour trip especially with a rest stop for you to stretch out. The windows are also bigger. Let's just break down the differences here:

Train: Most comfortable, slow, untimely, expensive.

Bus: Average comfort, quite fast, cheapest, may run into traffic jams.

Bus-Train combo: Average comfort, average speed, expensive, may still run into traffic jams.

Plane: Worst comfort, short flight but much airport time, expensive, unpredictable delays.
 
Amtrak does lthe LA to San Jose run, in both directions during the daylight hours and is a pleasant ride. Why whould you want to ever spend the money for a bedroom?
 
Some people like to see and experience the PPC. Sometimes one likes to sleep as well for the trip. Sometimes it's for the experience. Some people like the privacy. It again depends on personal preference.

I have not been on a D4505. I just work with buses and people all week. I'd rather not be on or deal with them on my "weekend." But as you said the train is slow so the short 4 hour hop works for me. I get to eat when I like on the train with that selection. Get a rest stop on the bus route as well.

I agree though with the assessment... however the train-bus combo often is less than $48 for my trip I won't complain on the price... plus the AGR points for each segment... if I take train-bus-train I get 300 vs. just the train I only get 100. Easier way to make Select Plus without having a high spend.

Speed: Airplane wins in terms of travel time but you need to get to/from the airport and spend time waiting for the plane/security etc...

Scenery: Train wins as it gets up along the coast where cars and buses can not...

Cost: Depends on the price point...

Another point worth mentioning... on a train you can walk around... I don't like sitting down for long periods of time... sit down drving around 10 hours a day at work... rather be able to walk on my time off :)

After all is said and done my suggestion would be... take the plane! Why... time with friends is amazing and you can't put a price on that. Save the bucks for when you can take a longer train trip with a sleeper (and hopefully on the CS so you get to use the PPC too!)

I don't take planes but if you can hang out longer with your friends... and you don't mind paying and the airport hassle, why not?

If not... CS wins my vote :)
 
I try to spend as much time as possible in the PPC and especially enjoy it later in the night when everyone else has retired to their bunks. Even though the attendant bails sometime between 10 and 11 the car remains open all night. Crossing the Suisun Bay Bridge on the northbound is especially enjoyable as you get to take in the whole view from the big windows while listening to the bridge rattle beneath the wheels. To me it's worth the extra money to upgrade to Sleeper and enjoy your Coast Starlight.
 
roadman3313 said:
Some people like to see and experience the PPC. Sometimes one likes to sleep as well for the trip. Sometimes it's for the experience. Some people like the privacy. It again depends on personal preference.
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Other things aside, I've never found it worthwhile to get a Sleeper during the day. I sleep horribly during daytime and IMO the privacy and PPC aren't worth the extra bucks. A Superliner Coach is still heaven compared to airline Y-class.
 
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