Train speed.......historically speaking?

[jpakala]

In summer 1964 I remember the Super Chief going very fast across KS and the track was smooth as silk. Later I wrote a glowing letter to Santa Fe re the trip. In fact I don't recall any rough track (we went KC-LA). Calls to dinner were by a porter playing chimes as he went car to car. The chimes were on a handheld musical instrument and he used a small mallet. The dining tables had finger bowls at dinner, always had a plate in front of you as I guess some finest restaurants still do, had stemmed goblets, waffles or French toast about 1-2" thick ('melt in your mouth' quality), and at one meal when space wasn't available they seated us in the Turquoise Room in the adjacent parlor dome car. It was the trip of a lifetime. We returned on The Chief (our car going via the Grand Canyon). We had a bedroom in a 4-4-2 Pullman named Regal Elm. A lady from MI, 2 boys & a girl had a suite of a drawing room & compartment, the girl using the latter (a small door linked them).

 

[Cal]

In summer 1964 I remember the Super Chief going very fast across KS and the track was smooth as silk. Later I wrote a glowing letter to Santa Fe re the trip. In fact I don't recall any rough track (we went KC-LA). Calls to dinner were by a porter playing chimes as he went car to car. The chimes were on a handheld musical instrument and he used a small mallet. The dining tables had finger bowls at dinner, always had a plate in front of you as I guess some finest restaurants still do, had stemmed goblets, waffles or French toast about 1-2" thick ('melt in your mouth' quality), and at one meal when space wasn't available they seated us in the Turquoise Room in the adjacent parlor dome car. It was the trip of a lifetime. We returned on The Chief (our car going via the Grand Canyon). We had a bedroom in a 4-4-2 Pullman named Regal Elm. A lady from MI, 2 boys & a girl had a suite of a drawing room & compartment, the girl using the latter (a small door linked them).

Oh how I envy you. Unfortunately I wasn't even born yet when Amtrak was started.

I find it funny, but amazing that the Santa Fe stopped allowing Amtrak to use the Chief name on their trains after service went down. Even after they were out of the passenger business they prided their trains, I'm sure they would be ashamed of what it's become today.

Now, are there any routes that went down in travel time?

 

[alanh]

The NEC trains are an obvious one. The Acela goes NYP to WAS in 2:55. The Pennsylvania RR timetable for 1952 shows the Congressional at 3:35.

BOS to NYP on Acela is 3:45. The New Haven RR was 4:20 in 1955 for BOS to NYP on the Patriot.

It's highly unlikely any other area has sped up though.

 

[Hans627]

One can't generalize that track was in better shape before Amtrak. The Penn Central, where most of Amtrak's business was, had marginally worse to a lot worse track compared with its lines that survive to today and are still used by Amtrak. FRA track standards didn't exist before the early '70s. I'd bet a lot of those 90-100 MPH territories on ATSF, IC etc. wouldn't have been run higher than 79 if current FRA standards had been applied at the time. And today engineers simply can't get away with winking at the speed limits, for good reason.

So FRA has track standards apparently. Is that true and if so how is it determined if they are being followed?

Thx

 

[ehbowen]

So FRA has track standards apparently. Is that true and if so how is it determined if they are being followed?

Thx

Here's a link to the appropriate FRA document: https://alternatewars.com/BBOW/Railroads/track_standards_fact_sheet_FINAL.pdf

The railroad determines which class a particular stretch of track falls into. The FRA is supposed to monitor and ensure that it falls within standard and force the railroad to repair or downgrade it if it fails. They use track geometry cars and similar to take measurements. The railroad also has inspection requirements, varying from monthly to two or even three times a week for the highest speed track.

 

[BlackDiamond]

One can't generalize that track was in better shape before Amtrak. The Penn Central, where most of Amtrak's business was, had marginally worse to a lot worse track compared with its lines that survive to today and are still used by Amtrak.

Yes, a principal reason for the demise of Amtrak's New York - St. Louis National Limited was the terrible condition of Penn Central's track. NB there is an article about this train and its history in the most recent issue of Passenger Train Journal, a publication of White River Productions,

 

[MARC Rider]

Yes, a principal reason for the demise of Amtrak's New York - St. Louis National Limited was the terrible condition of Penn Central's track. NB there is an article about this train and its history in the most recent issue of Passenger Train Journal, a publication of White River Productions,

I think the condition of Penn Central track was involved in the checkered history of the James Whitcomb Riley/Cardinal and was a reason why today's Cardinal uses a different route between Cincinnati and Chicago.

 

[frequentflyer]

In summer 1964 I remember the Super Chief going very fast across KS and the track was smooth as silk. Later I wrote a glowing letter to Santa Fe re the trip. In fact I don't recall any rough track (we went KC-LA). Calls to dinner were by a porter playing chimes as he went car to car. The chimes were on a handheld musical instrument and he used a small mallet. The dining tables had finger bowls at dinner, always had a plate in front of you as I guess some finest restaurants still do, had stemmed goblets, waffles or French toast about 1-2" thick ('melt in your mouth' quality), and at one meal when space wasn't available they seated us in the Turquoise Room in the adjacent parlor dome car. It was the trip of a lifetime. We returned on The Chief (our car going via the Grand Canyon). We had a bedroom in a 4-4-2 Pullman named Regal Elm. A lady from MI, 2 boys & a girl had a suite of a drawing room & compartment, the girl using the latter (a small door linked them).

The Super Chief was the standard in my book, that is why I asked earlier what would have happened if this train was delayed or arrived substantially late. Can only imagine the conversations or cleaning out of the desks there would be.

 

[Seaboard92]

The ultimate train though for people asking why it was late was the Panama Limited on the Illinois Central. It is said that if the CEO Wayne Johnston saw the observation car departing Central Station in Chicago at 5:01 PM his next action was calling downstairs to inquire with station staff what was the reason for the hold up. It's departure was at 5:00 PM. Now that is taking ownership in your flagship train. Something that is definitely missing in todays era. It was also held to such a high standard that it was All Pullman until 1967 and even when it added coaches they still called it an all Pullman Train. The Magnolia Star was the all coach train that ran on the exact same schedule with a different train number that was actually just combined into it.

 

[Hans627]

Here's a link to the appropriate FRA document: https://alternatewars.com/BBOW/Railroads/track_standards_fact_sheet_FINAL.pdf

The railroad determines which class a particular stretch of track falls into. The FRA is supposed to monitor and ensure that it falls within standard and force the railroad to repair or downgrade it if it fails. They use track geometry cars and similar to take measurements. The railroad also has inspection requirements, varying from monthly to two or even three times a week for the highest speed track.

Thanks for posting the FRA document. It is very helpful to understand how tracks are classified and inspected. It give me a little peace of mind knowing that even though track conditions are very rough it is not dangerous if inspected as per the regs.