Train whistle (horn) Question

[cpotisch]

From my experience, the "sleepers" are always in front on the CL. And of course other trains as well, I don't have a list.

Question, why would Amtrak EVER position the "sleeping car" in the front of the train, rather than the back where it is quieter? And should I not ask the question because hey, coach PAX have to sleep too? 

Seems that if you offer a product called a "sleeping car" with a bed etc. and charge a premium price, it would make sense to place it in the quietest possible location (rear of train).

The main reason they are usually at the front on Superliners is that the Trans-Dorm needs to be at the front of the train, so it makes sense to have all the sleepers together on one side of the dining car. On Viewliner trains, the sleepers are always at the back, with the exception of the Boston section of the LSL.

 

[cpotisch]

As much as I love train travel, sleep is very much at a premium. After the aforementioned LA trip, I’ve built in at least two nights at a hotel. As like you, scenery is very important (as is breakfast) to me. I don’t do much sightseeing at many of my destinations, as whatever I see out the train window is my sightseeing. Where we differ, is the train horn is at times soothing to me and sometimes the white noise you referred to earlier. It literally doesn’t play into my sleep deprivation. It’s more the rough track in places that tends to wake me up numerous times during the night....and I rarely nap on the train because I don’t want to miss anything.

Interestingly, for me it's the temperature that often makes it hard to sleep onboard. I'm okay with rough track and the sound of the horn, but those in-room thermostats aren't getting any younger, and if it gets too cold, I will end up in this unpleasant and grumpy/confused not-quite-asleep-but-certainly-not-awake interim state. That's why I always make sure to have an extra blanket and some super warm PJs when spending a night on the train.

 

[tim49424]

Interestingly, for me it's the temperature that often makes it hard to sleep onboard. I'm okay with rough track and the sound of the horn, but those in-room thermostats aren't getting any younger, and if it gets too cold, I will end up in this unpleasant and grumpy/confused not-quite-asleep-but-certainly-not-awake interim state. That's why I always make sure to have an extra blanket and some super warm PJs when spending a night on the train.

I’m just the opposite, I sleep better when the room temperature is cooler. The old adage plays well for this old guy....you can always put more layers on but you can only take so much off. LOL

I don’t think I’ve ever experienced a too hot sleeping environment on a train. If I’m riding coach, then I tend to get hot. But I only ride coach on day trips to Chicago.

 

[cpotisch]

I’m just the opposite, I sleep better when the room temperature is cooler. The old adage plays well for this old guy....you can always put more layers on but you can only take so much off. LOL

I also like sleeping when it’s colder, but not when it’s REALLY cold. My worst night’s sleep on Amtrak by far was in the Family Bedroom on the TE/SL. It was the lower-level (obviously) of a 40+ year old Superliner I, the HVAC in our car wasn’t the best, and we were literally rolling through the desert in February. It was really shockingly cold. :unsure:

 

[Trogdor]

we were literally rolling through the dessert in February. It was really shockingly cold. :unsure:

Sounds tasty. 

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I also like sleeping when it’s colder, but not when it’s REALLY cold. My worst night’s sleep on Amtrak by far was in the Family Bedroom on the TE/SL. It was the lower-level (obviously) of a 40+ year old Superliner I, the HVAC in our car wasn’t the best, and we were literally rolling through the dessert in February. It was really shockingly cold. :unsure:

It's normal for the desert to be cold at night.      https://www.climas.arizona.edu/sw-climate/sw-temperature

he daily range between maximum and minimum temperatures sometimes runs as much as 50 to 60 degrees F during the drier periods of the year. During winter months, daytime temperatures may average70 degrees F, with night temperatures often falling to freezing of slightly below in the lower desert valleys."

 

[cpotisch]

It's normal for the desert to be cold at night.      https://www.climas.arizona.edu/sw-climate/sw-temperature

I know it's normal. That's my point. I was listing all the factors that resulted in such a cold night onboard.

It was the lower-level (obviously) of a 40+ year old Superliner I, the HVAC in our car wasn’t the best, and we were literally rolling through the desert in February

 

[cpotisch]

we were literally rolling through the dessert in February. It was really shockingly cold. :unsure:

Sounds tasty. 

Interestingly I had just noticed that about a second before your post showed up. :giggle:

 

[fillyjonk]

I’m just the opposite, I sleep better when the room temperature is cooler. The old adage plays well for this old guy....you can always put more layers on but you can only take so much off. LOL

I don’t think I’ve ever experienced a too hot sleeping environment on a train. If I’m riding coach, then I tend to get hot. But I only ride coach on day trips to Chicago.

I have. I've been on the TE a few times where wow, they had the heat CRANKED in the sleepers. I could only figure someone complained too many times and the car attendant was like "Okay, fine, we'll put it up to 11." I suppose I could have complained to the attendant too but that's not in my nature to...

I sleep better with cold than hot. Hot makes me feel sick to my stomach...there have been a few times it was so hot I left the door to my roomette open to get a little airflow, even though I felt really insecure with doing that.

 

[Amtrak706]

There is a little bit of misinformation in here about how the horn/bell setup works. On most locomotives built from the 1990s to present, the bell is triggered when the horn is blown. Western railroads do not use flashing ditch lights, so only Amtrak and the Eastern roads also have the ditch lights start flashing when the horn is blown.

Modern Amtrak engines do have two stage buttons, but that is a special setup involving two Graham White valves that have been modified, and freight units do not have that setup. Older locomotives like the F40s and AEM7s had manual valves, where you could “feather” or “quill” the horn based on how hard you pulled the handle (or in the AEM7’s case, the Viloco cord).

The bell button turns the bell on and off, it has nothing to do with the ditch lights. Their flashing can only be triggered by the horn, and they stop flashing on their own after about 30 seconds. This is also separate from the light switch which can turn the ditch lights off entirely and dim the headlights for oncoming trains. On locomotives with flashing ditch lights, the light switch can be completely off and if the horn is blown the ditch lights will still turn on and start flashing, and then go dark after 30 seconds.

The horn sequencer pedal can mostly be found on GE locomotives built since the mid 90s, but I believe the feature is also included in EMD’s EM2000 control system so some of their engines might also have it. Most engineers don’t use it because it’s easier to time the last blast over the crossing if you do the sequence manually. But it is pretty distinctive when you do hear it, once you know what it sounds like you can tell it apart pretty well from an engineer blowing manually.

 

[Rasputin]

Question, why would Amtrak EVER position the "sleeping car" in the front of the train, rather than the back where it is quieter? And should I not ask the question because hey, coach PAX have to sleep too? 

Seems that if you offer a product called a "sleeping car" with a bed etc. and charge a premium price, it would make sense to place it in the quietest possible location (rear of train).

The standard tradition years ago was that the sleepers were on the rear of the train and the coaches were at the front and that is how it should be.  This was the practice on the railroads before Amtrak and in the early years of Amtrak.  It is still the practice on VIA's overnight trains and it was practice of VIA's predecessors, CN and CP.  

 

[spinnaker]

Since the length of the sequence and when to start blowing depends on the speed of the train, it is hard to automate that simply. It would do no good if you are done blowing the sequence and your still 200 yards away from the actual road that it was meant for!

 

[spinnaker]

Since the length of the sequence and when to start blowing depends on the speed of the train, it is hard to automate that simply. It would do no good if you are done blowing the sequence and your still 200 yards away from the actual road that it was meant for!

Not really.   It would be fairly easy to automate.   In fact I am real surprised it is no being done.

The only thing that might be needed would be local sensors that the engine can pick up.   Bur that would mean more maintenance probbaly the reaon it is not done.

 

[Amtrak706]

Not really.   It would be fairly easy to automate.   In fact I am real surprised it is no being done.

The only thing that might be needed would be local sensors that the engine can pick up.   Bur that would mean more maintenance probbaly the reaon it is not done.

More recent freight GEs have a smarter version of the sequencer. It isn’t exactly automated, but it uses the distance counter to space the sequence out over 1000 feet, which can be faster or slower depending on speed. It uses a push button that is pressed once, no more holding the pedal down. Still, I think engineers feel safer doing it manually since it’s really not difficult and they know they’ve given the warning they want to give.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The bell button turns the bell on and off, it has nothing to do with the ditch lights.Their flashing can only be triggered by the horn

That largely applies to the P42/P42 fleet. The bells EMD engines, the cab cars and the AEM-7dcs caused the ditch lights to flash.

and they stop flashing on their own after about 30 seconds. This is also separate from the light switch which can turn the ditch lights off entirely and dim the headlights for oncoming trains. On locomotives with flashing ditch lights, the light switch can be completely off and if the horn is blown the ditch lights will still turn on and start flashing, and then go dark after 30 seconds.

The diesel fleet has been or is being modified to allow the flashing ditch lights to deactivate upon demand while in the on position. You no longer have to wait 30 seconds for them to turn off automatically. The Siemens fleet and what is left of the AEM-7 fleet already have this capability.

 

[Amtrak706]

That largely applies to the P42/P42 fleet. The bells EMD engines, the cab cars and the AEM-7dcs caused the ditch lights to flash.

The diesel fleet has been or is being modified to allow the flashing ditch lights to deactivate upon demand while in the on position. You no longer have to wait 30 seconds for them to turn off automatically. The Siemens fleet and what is left of the AEM-7 fleet already have this capability.

Ah, ok. Well the majority of newer freight units do work the way I’ve described. Some older EMDs work the way you are talking about which leads me to believe it has to do with the ditch lights being a retrofit.

And interesting about the Siemens units. Does this include Chargers? I’ve only been in one once and I remember the ditch lights coming on and flashing on their own with the horn even when the rest of the lights were completely off. They weren’t in revenue service yet so this could have been changed later.

 

[Thirdrail7]

And interesting about the Siemens units. Does this include Chargers? I’ve only been in one once and I remember the ditch lights coming on and flashing on their own with the horn even when the rest of the lights were completely off. They weren’t in revenue service yet so this could have been changed later.

HA. They still do this!  You could bump into the horn knob or hit the horn by mistake and those ultra bright ditch lights would flash...and flash..and flash. Some of them were much longer than 30 seconds. So, Siemens came out with a mod, allowing you to toggle the ditch light switch to stop the flashing and restore it to the selected position.

 

[mcropod]

Train horns - or in steam days, whistles - are fabulously evocative sounds.  They are also regionally specific.  As a young fellow in steam to diesel era Scotland, living close to the Aberdeen London east coast express line, I could hear the whistles and horns, as well as get to a bridge over the line to be engulfed by the steam as it passed underneath.

We'd never call the diesel pulled trains anything other than "Ba-PAP" trains because of their horn, a distinctly different signal sound from the whistles of the steam locos.

Upon moving to suburban Melbourne in Oz, we were always close to the extensive suburban service, and their electric trains had a sharp and high-pitched horn signal, mostly sounded just before station departure as a signal to passengers.  Most road crossings are and were gated, so the horn wasn't much used for that.

And then I saw the Hollywood film set in Melbourne about the end of the earth following a nuclear war in the northern hemisphere "On the Beach" which has a number of scenes where the suburban trains are featured, and their horn sound was dubbed to insert the lower USA standard tone.

What a travesty!

 

[spinnaker]

More recent freight GEs have a smarter version of the sequencer. It isn’t exactly automated, but it uses the distance counter to space the sequence out over 1000 feet, which can be faster or slower depending on speed. It uses a push button that is pressed once, no more holding the pedal down. Still, I think engineers feel safer doing it manually since it’s really not difficult and they know they’ve given the warning they want to give.

And it is every little kids dream so might as well live the dream while you can.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I would like to had that a lot of rule books tend to make you blow the same horn sequence for grade crossings and passing standing trains on an adjacent track.  That can lead to a heck of a sequence if you're passing a two mile freight train.

 

[Chatter163]