Trains South of Washington, D.C. Disrupted

[caravanman]

Yeah, well, once I remember how to make links to external sites it will be better..

Service Alert: Regional Service and Other Trains South of Washington, D.C. Disrupted - CSX Railroad Closed North of Richmond, Va.

5:15 am EST

A CSX freight train incident north of Richmond, Va., has closed the tracks Amtrak uses through Richmond.

Regional Service between Washington and Newport News/Richmond

Trains 84, 86 and 94 are canceled between Newport News/Richmond and Washington, with no alternate transportation available.

Carolinian

Trains 79 and 80 will operate only between New York and Washington and between Charlotte and Raleigh, with no alternate transportation available between Washington and Raleigh.

Palmetto

Trains 89 and 90 are canceled between New York City and Savannah, Ga., with no alternate transportation available.

 

[Rafi]

info

FWIW, I spoke with Amtrak Media Relations this morning to check on what the plan was for the northbound Auto Train. It turns out that the NB consist is holding in Richmond until this afternoon, which is the timeframe CSX has given Amtrak for a possible reopening of a track. Otherwise, my best guess is that they have to decide if they want to make a backup move to Main Street Station and then onto the Buckingham Branch to head west to Gordonsville, up to Orange, and then on to Alexandria, as they did a few years back. The odds of the latter happening are unlikely from what I can gather, however.

Rafi

 

[BobWeaver]

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...d=1178294135905

Yikes. Another freight incident on the CSX. Who would have thought it. <_<

It's odd to me that 80 is only running up to RGH, but perhaps that's the most convenient place they can wye the train. But I can't believe that they canceled 89/90 all together. They could have run those to at least WAS and FLO (respectively). I'm guessing congestion on the A-Line from this incident would be to blame?

 

[user 1215]

No alternate means available???? It can't be THAT hard to bustitute on I-95 around the incident.

 

[user 1215]

Looks like the VRE isn't affected, so it was South of Fredricksburg. From a news report: "Amtrak hopes to have all tracks open later today. Officials encourage travelers to reschedule their trips for tomorrow."

Works GREAT for commuters. It also said that SOME bustitutions were being made to accomodate passengers on a case by case basis. This is craziness.

In cancelling the Palmetto, no one gets stranded (just majorly inconvinienced, but they can take Silver Service instead, South of WAS and Regionals between WAS and NYP). I don't get why don't run the Carolinian all the way to Richmond...

Sometimes I wonder about them...

 

[Rafi]

Looks like the VRE isn't affected, so it was South of Fredricksburg. .... I don't get why don't run the Carolinian all the way to Richmond...

Actually, the derailment happened literally FEET from the north end of the platform at RVR (Staples Mill), and between the repair equipment, the holding Auto Train, and the derailed freight train blocking the main line, nothing can make it to the platform at Staples Mill, much less out of Acca yard.

Rafi

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Its all in the money, dude. Cheaper to cancel than bustitute. Although, I personally would have thought CSX would be financially responsible for the burden. CSX need to be given a serious kick the the pants.

 

[AlanB]

No alternate means available???? It can't be THAT hard to bustitute on I-95 around the incident.

Forget for a moment Rafi's post wherein he mentions that the derailment is basically on top of the station. You're talking about bussing hundreds of passengers from at least a dozen trains, no bus company just keeps a couple of dozen long distance buses sitting around with drivers, hoping against hope that Amtrak needs to call them up and utilize those buses.

Busing all those passengers isn't something that anyone, be it Amtrak, and airline, or anyone else can setup on the spur of the moment.

I'm betting that if Amtrak was able to get any buses, they will be used for the Silver service trains.

And turning all of those trains in places where they probably can't be turned doesn't help the issue either.

 

[AlanB]

Its all in the money, dude. Cheaper to cancel than bustitute. Although, I personally would have thought CSX would be financially responsible for the burden. CSX need to be given a serious kick the the pants.

CSX is not responsible for any liabilities where Amtrak is concerned. Even in the case of a derailment that is CSX's fault, Amtrak still has to pay to fix its own equipment that was damaged thanks to CSX's negligence.

 

[jis]

Its all in the money, dude. Cheaper to cancel than bustitute. Although, I personally would have thought CSX would be financially responsible for the burden. CSX need to be given a serious kick the the pants.

....and this a day or two after managing to almost get a stray freight car onto the 150mph NEC tracks, stopped only by the coincidental presence of an MBTA train which blocked its path. Good going CSX!

 

[Rafi]

....and this a day or two after managing to almost get a stray freight car onto the 150mph NEC tracks, stopped only by the coincidental presence of an MBTA train which blocked its path. Good going CSX!

They don't call it "CrashSplillXplode" for nothing.

 

[jis]

CSX is not responsible for any liabilities where Amtrak is concerned. Even in the case of a derailment that is CSX's fault, Amtrak still has to pay to fix its own equipment that was damaged thanks to CSX's negligence.

We should thank our stars that they don;t ask Amtrak to fix the damaged track while they are at it. Coming to think of it, if they did, the'd at least get a short piece of decent track out of the deal

 

[BobWeaver]

Looks like the VRE isn't affected, so it was South of Fredricksburg. .... I don't get why don't run the Carolinian all the way to Richmond...

Actually, the derailment happened literally FEET from the north end of the platform at RVR (Staples Mill), and between the repair equipment, the holding Auto Train, and the derailed freight train blocking the main line, nothing can make it to the platform at Staples Mill, much less out of Acca yard.

Rafi

It must have been on one of the switches just north of the platform, if a car didn't just jump the rails. I rode 80 back in June and I got these pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77568838@N00/...619111/sizes/l/

Note the yard lead to the left of the engine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77568838@N00/...456178/sizes/l/

Here's a shot of the switch that joins one of the station tracks onto Main 1.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77568838@N00/...621177/sizes/l/

This is a zoom shot of the crossovers just down the tracks, as well as that station lead.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Thats absurd. Usually, a company is responsible for ALL costs of its own negligence on others.

 

[transit54]

Thats absurd. Usually, a company is responsible for ALL costs of its own negligence on others.

I'm sure a case could be made. But Amtrak would have to sue CSX and spend time and resources and hours in court over what amounts to probably not more than $10,000 or $20,000. The time and energy spent to recover this money simply isn't worth it to Amtrak, in fact, their recovery costs will likely exceed whatever they end up getting. And you can bet that CSX will dig in its heels and fight every step of the way, because no railroad wants to have a legal precedent to recoup the costs it incurred due to a freight derailment.

I was on the Vermonter a year and a half ago when an NECR derailment blocked our path and we had to be bussed from Springfield. I had a long discussion with the conductor about the track conditions and the legalities surrounding incidents like this. Pretty much, Amtrak just absorbs all the losses, mostly because of politics and spineless legislators.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

it sucks that when a train derails amtrak as to pay for the repairs.

 

[nr272]

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...d=1178294135905
Yikes. Another freight incident on the CSX. Who would have thought it. <_<

I suppose it's cheaper to clean up derailments every so often than to properly maintain and upgrade tracks.

 

[AlanB]

Thats absurd. Usually, a company is responsible for ALL costs of its own negligence on others.

I'm sure a case could be made. But Amtrak would have to sue CSX and spend time and resources and hours in court over what amounts to probably not more than $10,000 or $20,000. The time and energy spent to recover this money simply isn't worth it to Amtrak, in fact, their recovery costs will likely exceed whatever they end up getting. And you can bet that CSX will dig in its heels and fight every step of the way, because no railroad wants to have a legal precedent to recoup the costs it incurred due to a freight derailment.

I was on the Vermonter a year and a half ago when an NECR derailment blocked our path and we had to be bussed from Springfield. I had a long discussion with the conductor about the track conditions and the legalities surrounding incidents like this. Pretty much, Amtrak just absorbs all the losses, mostly because of politics and spineless legislators.

As I understand it, Amtrak can't sue CSX even if they wanted to. Part of all RR agreements, even between other freight RR's is a hold blameless clause. For example, if CSX derails a UP boxcar on CSX tracks, it's still UP's problem and loss. If UP puts a CSX car on the ground, it's CSX's loss. When Amtrak came into existance, that same agreement was made.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee gone f]

Thats absurd. Usually, a company is responsible for ALL costs of its own negligence on others.

I'm sure a case could be made. But Amtrak would have to sue CSX and spend time and resources and hours in court over what amounts to probably not more than $10,000 or $20,000. The time and energy spent to recover this money simply isn't worth it to Amtrak, in fact, their recovery costs will likely exceed whatever they end up getting. And you can bet that CSX will dig in its heels and fight every step of the way, because no railroad wants to have a legal precedent to recoup the costs it incurred due to a freight derailment.

I was on the Vermonter a year and a half ago when an NECR derailment blocked our path and we had to be bussed from Springfield. I had a long discussion with the conductor about the track conditions and the legalities surrounding incidents like this. Pretty much, Amtrak just absorbs all the losses, mostly because of politics and spineless legislators.

As I understand it, Amtrak can't sue CSX even if they wanted to. Part of all RR agreements, even between other freight RR's is a hold blameless clause. For example, if CSX derails a UP boxcar on CSX tracks, it's still UP's problem and loss. If UP puts a CSX car on the ground, it's CSX's loss. When Amtrak came into existance, that same agreement was made.

That is correct. Each railroad takes care of any expendatures they incur if their property is involved in an incident. In this case, Amtrak will cover their expenses relating to the delays incurred, handling issues with passengers, crew staging, etc. CSX will take care of any expendatures they incur relating to the repair of the track, signals, adjoining properties in the event of damage to them, injuries to crew and public if any, etc. If this situation had happened farther North in VRE territory, then they would have expendatures of their own to contend with, too.

OBS gone freight...

 

[Diamond D]

New to the forums, but thought some of you might enjoy these pictures of a detouring Amtrak train I caught near Durham, NC today

92, NB Silver Star, unloaded its passengers at Raleigh (to Busses) then headed west to Greensboro, then north via Lynchburg to Washington. This move was special 1) because sleepers rarely travel between Durham and Greensboro, only during detours, and 2) there was an engine on both ends to allow for a quick move in Greensboro.

Approaching at track speed:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1101386

Going away view - you can see both engines

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?...9299&nseq=5

Gotta love trailing units like these... you get a whole nother chance to photograph the train!

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1101385

Nick

 

[CREW-DORM#2524]

info

FWIW, I spoke with Amtrak Media Relations this morning to check on what the plan was for the northbound Auto Train. It turns out that the NB consist is holding in Richmond until this afternoon, which is the timeframe CSX has given Amtrak for a possible reopening of a track. Otherwise, my best guess is that they have to decide if they want to make a backup move to Main Street Station and then onto the Buckingham Branch to head west to Gordonsville, up to Orange, and then on to Alexandria, as they did a few years back. The odds of the latter happening are unlikely from what I can gather, however.

Rafi

Dont look for the Auto Train on the BB ANYTIME soon.

Have a very special day

 

[Guest_Yerry_*]

"Hold blameless", maybe better referred to as "self insured", applies to TRACKAGE RIGHTS. In the 1940's a US Supreme Court ruling put this policy on legal footing after a wreck involving Rock Island, Union Pacific, and defective spring switches. In short, since the US Government (then the ICC, now the FRA) regulates trackage rights and can even require or ban them, the landlord railroad is entitled to some form of protection.

Self insurance is cheaper, since it costs nothing until you use it, assuming, of course, that you have either deep enough pockets or your own insurance to cover these costs (which they do).

And I can tell you about the joys of finding a mere FIVE Greyhound-type buses within a week. Bus companies have cut overhead costs to the bone recent years, and even a week ahead, there just aren't many buses just sitting around.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee gone f]

For those of you who posted the pics (especially the #92 detour), on behalf of the forum thanks for the links. OBS gone freight....

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Does Amtrak have the right to detour onto any freight track when the track Amtrak would normally use is blocked, or are the trackage rights more restricted than that?

 

[WICT106]

No. Not all tracks are maintained to the standard the either the landlord freight RR, or the F.R.A., or Amtrak (the NRPC) would be willing to operate. Generally speaking, Amtrak is extremely reluctant to operate, for any reason, on track that is lower quality than FRA class 3 (59 mph) track. Many parts of the North American rail network do not meet those standards. Amtrak has, in the past, negotiated some detour routes with freight RR's, but not in all circumstances.

To sum it up, track rights are more restricted.