Trains Weather Limits

[Rail Freak]

With Tropical Storm Fay approaching, was wondering limits Amtrak has in place for rail travel?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

While, of course Amtrak doesn't have to worry about the Keys, history there shows railroads and hurricanes do not get along. History Channel had a doc on the other night about the Overseas Highway which actually started out as a railroad to Key West until a Cat 5 Hurricane took it out during the 1930s. A rescue train sent to collect workers didn't make it out, and amazingly, 200 mph winds and a storm surge barely touched the heavy engine, but the coaches and rails were shredded. I imagine Superliner and Viewliner cars would shred like smashed beer cans if subject to that kind of force.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I dunno about that. The original Superliners were pretty darned solid (built by Pullman Standard based heavily on Budd practice, and inspired by a Budd design) and the Bombardier-built Superliner IIs aren't that far behind. Even the cynical curmudgeon David Gunn thinks pretty highly of them. The Viewliners aren't nearly as good, but they were engineered by Budd and Amtrak, even if they were built by Morrison-Knudson.

Amfleets, on the other hand, I wouldn't worry about at all.

 

[Rail Freak]

I dunno about that. The original Superliners were pretty darned solid (built by Pullman Standard based heavily on Budd practice, and inspired by a Budd design) and the Bombardier-built Superliner IIs aren't that far behind. Even the cynical curmudgeon David Gunn thinks pretty highly of them. The Viewliners aren't nearly as good, but they were engineered by Budd and Amtrak, even if they were built by Morrison-Knudson.
Amfleets, on the other hand, I wouldn't worry about at all.

Does Amtrak halt travel when wind speed hits a certain velocity?

 

[the_traveler]

I don't know the limits, but I do know that if a storm is forecast to be in an area, you may find service is temporarily suspended "south of JAX" or "south of ORL" or "east of SAS" or whatever. (This temporary suspension is not to be confused with the "temporary suspension" of the SL east! )

 

[Rail Freak]

I don't know the limits, but I do know that if a storm is forecast to be in an area, you may find service is temporarily suspended "south of JAX" or "south of ORL" or "east of SAS" or whatever. (This temporary suspension is not to be confused with the "temporary suspension" of the SL east! )

God Forbid, that's all Florida needs.

"Sorry, If I wanna go Rails, I can't get there from here!" What's up with that???

B)

 

[AlanB]

Does Amtrak halt travel when wind speed hits a certain velocity?

Amtrak as a general rule doesn't stop because the winds hit a certain velocity. However Amtrak is almost always forced to stop running its trains by the host RR's when wind speeds reach a certain sustained velocity. Or rather I should say are expected to hit a certain velocity. I can't remember right now if that number is 40 MPH or 50 MPH, but once the wind is expected to reach whatever the top speed is, the host RR will shut down operations a day or so before.

The main reason for the shutdown is that the crossing gates can't withstand that sustained wind. They'll just break off and start flying around as lethal projectiles. Therefore the host RR will head out the day before to remove the gates from the crossings. Once that's done it shuts down RR operations and of course forces Amtrak to halt service.

 

[Rail Freak]

Does Amtrak halt travel when wind speed hits a certain velocity?

Amtrak as a general rule doesn't stop because the winds hit a certain velocity. However Amtrak is almost always forced to stop running its trains by the host RR's when wind speeds reach a certain sustained velocity. Or rather I should say are expected to hit a certain velocity. I can't remember right now if that number is 40 MPH or 50 MPH, but once the wind is expected to reach whatever the top speed is, the host RR will shut down operations a day or so before.

The main reason for the shutdown is that the crossing gates can't withstand that sustained wind. They'll just break off and start flying around as lethal projectiles. Therefore the host RR will head out the day before to remove the gates from the crossings. Once that's done it shuts down RR operations and of course forces Amtrak to halt service.

Yeah, I bet. I was kinda wondering about those sustained winds causing a derailment? Snow? Floods ( got some education on that!)? Winds? & most importantly, UFO's!!!! :lol:

 

[JayPea]

Does Amtrak halt travel when wind speed hits a certain velocity?

Amtrak as a general rule doesn't stop because the winds hit a certain velocity. However Amtrak is almost always forced to stop running its trains by the host RR's when wind speeds reach a certain sustained velocity. Or rather I should say are expected to hit a certain velocity. I can't remember right now if that number is 40 MPH or 50 MPH, but once the wind is expected to reach whatever the top speed is, the host RR will shut down operations a day or so before.

The main reason for the shutdown is that the crossing gates can't withstand that sustained wind. They'll just break off and start flying around as lethal projectiles. Therefore the host RR will head out the day before to remove the gates from the crossings. Once that's done it shuts down RR operations and of course forces Amtrak to halt service.

Yeah, I bet. I was kinda wondering about those sustained winds causing a derailment? Snow? Floods ( got some education on that!)? Winds? & most importantly, UFO's!!!! :lol:

Don't forget about extreme cold. I don't remember how many winters ago this was, but the Empire Builder had to be temporarily halted at Minot, ND, due to extreme cold. Minot is a fuel stop, and it was so cold (-30F or lower) that the diesel fuel had turned to jelly. Making it just a wee bit hard to refuel that way. :lol:

 

[Rail Freak]

Does Amtrak halt travel when wind speed hits a certain velocity?

Amtrak as a general rule doesn't stop because the winds hit a certain velocity. However Amtrak is almost always forced to stop running its trains by the host RR's when wind speeds reach a certain sustained velocity. Or rather I should say are expected to hit a certain velocity. I can't remember right now if that number is 40 MPH or 50 MPH, but once the wind is expected to reach whatever the top speed is, the host RR will shut down operations a day or so before.

The main reason for the shutdown is that the crossing gates can't withstand that sustained wind. They'll just break off and start flying around as lethal projectiles. Therefore the host RR will head out the day before to remove the gates from the crossings. Once that's done it shuts down RR operations and of course forces Amtrak to halt service.

Yeah, I bet. I was kinda wondering about those sustained winds causing a derailment? Snow? Floods ( got some education on that!)? Winds? & most importantly, UFO's!!!! :lol:

Don't forget about extreme cold. I don't remember how many winters ago this was, but the Empire Builder had to be temporarily halted at Minot, ND, due to extreme cold. Minot is a fuel stop, and it was so cold (-30F or lower) that the diesel fuel had turned to jelly. Making it just a wee bit hard to refuel that way. :lol:

Wasn't in Sept. I hope!

 

[JayPea]

Well, no. It can be cold in Minot even in September, but not that cold!!!! :lol:

 

[Rail Freak]

Well, no. It can be cold in Minot even in September, but not that cold!!!! :lol:

Good, I thought I might have to bring along a wind breaker!!! h34r:

 

[Cascadia]

Don't forget about extreme cold. I don't remember how many winters ago this was, but the Empire Builder had to be temporarily halted at Minot, ND, due to extreme cold. Minot is a fuel stop, and it was so cold (-30F or lower) that the diesel fuel had turned to jelly. Making it just a wee bit hard to refuel that way. :lol:

Brrrr! January of 2002 or possibly 2003 was very cold in North Dakota, I think they had three weeks of highs in the negative teens. Brrrrr!

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

While, of course Amtrak doesn't have to worry about the Keys, history there shows railroads and hurricanes do not get along. History Channel had a doc on the other night about the Overseas Highway which actually started out as a railroad to Key West until a Cat 5 Hurricane took it out during the 1930s. A rescue train sent to collect workers didn't make it out, and amazingly, 200 mph winds and a storm surge barely touched the heavy engine, but the coaches and rails were shredded. I imagine Superliner and Viewliner cars would shred like smashed beer cans if subject to that kind of force.

I bet the French have trains that have experienced 200 MPH relative wind hitting the front of the train, if you consider a train going at 186 MPH, and a 14 MPH headwind, and I bet that this is probably not a big deal for them at all.

200 MPH from the side might be a different story, though.

(I'm always amazed by the news media being shocked when reporting that 70 MPH winds in hurricanes will lift airplanes. Of course those winds will do that, since the airplane is designed so that any relative wind above its stall speed will lift it, which is fundamentally what makes it an airplane and not a really stupid looking and excessively wide automobile, and a typical modern four seat airplane has a stall speed of somewhere vaguely around 60 MPH.)

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Amtrak as a general rule doesn't stop because the winds hit a certain velocity. However Amtrak is almost always forced to stop running its trains by the host RR's when wind speeds reach a certain sustained velocity. Or rather I should say are expected to hit a certain velocity. I can't remember right now if that number is 40 MPH or 50 MPH, but once the wind is expected to reach whatever the top speed is, the host RR will shut down operations a day or so before.
The main reason for the shutdown is that the crossing gates can't withstand that sustained wind. They'll just break off and start flying around as lethal projectiles. Therefore the host RR will head out the day before to remove the gates from the crossings. Once that's done it shuts down RR operations and of course forces Amtrak to halt service.

What about the NEC? The only level crossings there are in eastern Connecticut. And at least some of the crossings have something beyond the standard gates to allow high speed operation. Are there any pieces there that are vulnerable to high winds?

 

[Rail Freak]

While, of course Amtrak doesn't have to worry about the Keys, history there shows railroads and hurricanes do not get along. History Channel had a doc on the other night about the Overseas Highway which actually started out as a railroad to Key West until a Cat 5 Hurricane took it out during the 1930s. A rescue train sent to collect workers didn't make it out, and amazingly, 200 mph winds and a storm surge barely touched the heavy engine, but the coaches and rails were shredded. I imagine Superliner and Viewliner cars would shred like smashed beer cans if subject to that kind of force.

I bet the French have trains that have experienced 200 MPH relative wind hitting the front of the train, if you consider a train going at 186 MPH, and a 14 MPH headwind, and I bet that this is probably not a big deal for them at all.

200 MPH from the side might be a different story, though.

(I'm always amazed by the news media being shocked when reporting that 70 MPH winds in hurricanes will lift airplanes. Of course those winds will do that, since the airplane is designed so that any relative wind above its stall speed will lift it, which is fundamentally what makes it an airplane and not a really stupid looking and excessively wide automobile, and a typical modern four seat airplane has a stall speed of somewhere vaguely around 60 MPH.)

That's why I like balloons ( LTA W/ Airborne Heater)

 

[Tony]

That's why I like balloons ( LTA W/ Airborne Heater)

In a 200 MPH hurricane wind, it must be quite an exciting ride!

"I don't think we are in Kansas anymore."

 

[the_traveler]

Well, no. It can be cold in Minot even in September, but not that cold!!!! :lol:

Good, I thought I might have to bring along a wind breaker!!! h34r:

I'm surprised! Every time I go to Tampa and it's below 65℉, the "natives" are wearing gloves while the tourists are wearing shorts! :lol:

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Pix I took from after Hurricane Charlie in 2004, in Maitland, FL, about 100 yards from the A783 MM. Winds peaked in the 90+ MPH area.

http://westminstercasspc.org/graphics/pict0275.jpg

http://westminstercasspc.org/graphics/pict0276.jpg

I turned off the inline viewing to save bandwidth ......

 

[JohnF]

Amtrak will almost certainly suspend service if the storm reaches hurricane force and come inland over Florida as they have done it many times before. Usually they turn the trains at Jacksonville, but who knows with this one. If you are planning to travel in the next few days be sure and check with Amtrak before you depart.

 

[sechs]

Amtrak will almost certainly suspend service if the storm reaches hurricane force and come inland over Florida as they have done it many times before.

As Alan said, Amtrak doesn't make this decision; the host railroads do. As far as I can tell, Amtrak doesn't have any type of policy on when it's unsafe to travel, and simply deals with effects of what the hosts do.

Certainly, I've been on a train in a tropical storm, with water lapping at the rails.

 

[JohnF]

Amtrak will almost certainly suspend service if the storm reaches hurricane force and come inland over Florida as they have done it many times before.

As Alan said, Amtrak doesn't make this decision; the host railroads do. As far as I can tell, Amtrak doesn't have any type of policy on when it's unsafe to travel, and simply deals with effects of what the hosts do.

Certainly, I've been on a train in a tropical storm, with water lapping at the rails.

You left off the most important part of my reply........check with Amtrak before you venture forth. They have and usually do suspend service when conditions become dangerous whether or not the host railroad does. I just checked reservations on line for August 19-20 and the Silver Service trains are sold out. If they have to suspend service it should make for a big mess.

 

[Ispolkom]

Don't forget about extreme cold. I don't remember how many winters ago this was, but the Empire Builder had to be temporarily halted at Minot, ND, due to extreme cold. Minot is a fuel stop, and it was so cold (-30F or lower) that the diesel fuel had turned to jelly. Making it just a wee bit hard to refuel that way. :lol:

Oh, this makes sense. I had always wondered why the Empire Builder has always been stopped in Minot by cold-weather fuel problems. (This has happened several times over the years). After all, if it's cold in Minot, it's usually even colder in Cut Bank, but you don't have to refuel in Cut Bank.

I often travel to Minot at Christmas time, and when I lived in California I would fly. I still remember the bitter tone the flight attendant had when she announced "Due to Minot's year-round temperate climate, we will be deplaning through the stairs in the rear. Be sure not to touch anything metal with bare hands, as the temperature is a cool minus 25." But as we say up here, there's no such thing as bad weather, only poor clothing choices.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak will almost certainly suspend service if the storm reaches hurricane force and come inland over Florida as they have done it many times before.

As Alan said, Amtrak doesn't make this decision; the host railroads do. As far as I can tell, Amtrak doesn't have any type of policy on when it's unsafe to travel, and simply deals with effects of what the hosts do.

Certainly, I've been on a train in a tropical storm, with water lapping at the rails.

You left off the most important part of my reply........check with Amtrak before you venture forth. They have and usually do suspend service when conditions become dangerous whether or not the host railroad does. I just checked reservations on line for August 19-20 and the Silver Service trains are sold out. If they have to suspend service it should make for a big mess.

I don't know that I've ever seen Amtrak suspend operations until being told that the host RR was at least considering closing things down.

As for the trains being sold out on the 19th & 20th, that may be true. It's also possible that Amtrak has simply blocked those dates from sale until they see how things develop. Amtrak has done that in the past.