Turtle

[Devil's Advocate]

The Centers for Disease Control has an advisory about pet turtles causing Salmonella infections: http://www.cdc.gov/h..._an_turtles.htm The advisory notes that susceptible individuals may acquire fatal infections.

I don't think anyone is recommending allowing contact between the turtle and others.

In the advisory it includes contact with cages or where cages have been.

If it were me I'd be more concerned about what sort of chemicals Amtrak uses to clean and protect their own surfaces. Turtle salmonella can simply be washed away with soap and water but persistent pesticides and other chemicals that may reside in various cleaning products are not so easily avoided.

 

[Naismith]

The Centers for Disease Control has an advisory about pet turtles causing Salmonella infections: http://www.cdc.gov/h..._an_turtles.htm The advisory notes that susceptible individuals may acquire fatal infections.

I don't think anyone is recommending allowing contact between the turtle and others.

In the advisory it includes contact with cages or where cages have been.

If it were me I'd be more concerned about what sort of chemicals Amtrak uses to clean and protect their own surfaces. Turtle salmonella can simply be washed away with soap and water but persistent pesticides and other chemicals that may reside in various cleaning products are not so easily avoided.

Quotes from the advisory by the CDC regarding turtles:

• Do not have a turtle in any household that includes children under 5, the elderly, or people who have lowered natural resistance to disease due to pregnancy, cancer, chemotherapy, organ transplants, diabetes, liver problems or other diseases. A family expecting a child should remove any pet reptile or amphibian from the home before the infant arrives.
  
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• Remember, turtles are cute, but contaminated. Handle all turtles and surfaces that have come in contact with turtles as if they are contaminated with Salmonella, because there is a good possibility that they are.
  
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[haolerider]

The Centers for Disease Control has an advisory about pet turtles causing Salmonella infections: http://www.cdc.gov/h..._an_turtles.htm The advisory notes that susceptible individuals may acquire fatal infections.

I don't think anyone is recommending allowing contact between the turtle and others.

In the advisory it includes contact with cages or where cages have been.

If it were me I'd be more concerned about what sort of chemicals Amtrak uses to clean and protect their own surfaces. Turtle salmonella can simply be washed away with soap and water but persistent pesticides and other chemicals that may reside in various cleaning products are not so easily avoided.

Quotes from the advisory by the CDC regarding turtles:

• Do not have a turtle in any household that includes children under 5, the elderly, or people who have lowered natural resistance to disease due to pregnancy, cancer, chemotherapy, organ transplants, diabetes, liver problems or other diseases. A family expecting a child should remove any pet reptile or amphibian from the home before the infant arrives.
  
  ​
  
  
  
• Remember, turtles are cute, but contaminated. Handle all turtles and surfaces that have come in contact with turtles as if they are contaminated with Salmonella, because there is a good possibility that they are.
  
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Seems to me that the CDC has some pretty good reasons for not having pet turtles, so in my opinion the CDC confirms the Amtrak rule of no,pets of any kind. Rules are there for a reason and all the discussion about breaking the rules that individuals feel are not important is not correct. Yes, we have been given a brain, but rational thought tells you that this is not a rule that needs to be changed. I am someone who has a reduced innume system due to chemo and sure would not want to have the chance of any contact with salmonella while on the train. Leave the turtle at home!

 

[rusty spike]

The Centers for Disease Control has an advisory about pet turtles causing Salmonella infections: http://www.cdc.gov/h..._an_turtles.htm The advisory notes that susceptible individuals may acquire fatal infections.

I don't think anyone is recommending allowing contact between the turtle and others.

In the advisory it includes contact with cages or where cages have been.

If it were me I'd be more concerned about what sort of chemicals Amtrak uses to clean and protect their own surfaces. Turtle salmonella can simply be washed away with soap and water but persistent pesticides and other chemicals that may reside in various cleaning products are not so easily avoided.

Quotes from the advisory by the CDC regarding turtles:

• Do not have a turtle in any household that includes children under 5, the elderly, or people who have lowered natural resistance to disease due to pregnancy, cancer, chemotherapy, organ transplants, diabetes, liver problems or other diseases. A family expecting a child should remove any pet reptile or amphibian from the home before the infant arrives.
  
  ​
  
  
  
• Remember, turtles are cute, but contaminated. Handle all turtles and surfaces that have come in contact with turtles as if they are contaminated with Salmonella, because there is a good possibility that they are.
  
  ​
  
  
  
  ​
  
  
  
  ​
  
  
  
  ​
  
  
  

Seems to me that the CDC has some pretty good reasons for not having pet turtles, so in my opinion the CDC confirms the Amtrak rule of no,pets of any kind. Rules are there for a reason and all the discussion about breaking the rules that individuals feel are not important is not correct. Yes, we have been given a brain, but rational thought tells you that this is not a rule that needs to be changed. I am someone who has a reduced innume system due to chemo and sure would not want to have the chance of any contact with salmonella while on the train. Leave the turtle at home!

That doesn't mean that the OP didn't handle the turtle, pet it, to say "goodbye", then grab the same stair-rail boarding the train that you do. If one is to be paranoid of germs, allergies, diseases etc, maybe he or she should avoid all public conveyances. I'm sure that Amtrak doesn't sanitize a trainset between trips. I would hate to do a "germ" test on that ulpolstery, carpet, etc. It appears rather germ-laden.

 

Peanut allergy sufferers run the risk every time they board Amtrak, that someone is going to sit down beside them and open a bag of peanuts, which they could have purchased on board. Should Amtrak ban peanuts? Until then I guess we had better keep up with the "Airborne" cocktails, carry a bottle of Purell.

 

Having said all that, IMHO the Amtrak pet policy should remain in place,

 

 

 

 

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Seems to me that the CDC has some pretty good reasons for not having pet turtles, so in my opinion the CDC confirms the Amtrak rule of no,pets of any kind. Rules are there for a reason and all the discussion about breaking the rules that individuals feel are not important is not correct. Yes, we have been given a brain, but rational thought tells you that this is not a rule that needs to be changed. I am someone who has a reduced innume system due to chemo and sure would not want to have the chance of any contact with salmonella while on the train. Leave the turtle at home!

I wonder what the CDC would say about spending extended periods riding around on carpeted mass transit while recovering from chemotherapy.

 

[Guest]

Seems to me that the CDC has some pretty good reasons for not having pet turtles, so in my opinion the CDC confirms the Amtrak rule of no,pets of any kind. Rules are there for a reason and all the discussion about breaking the rules that individuals feel are not important is not correct. Yes, we have been given a brain, but rational thought tells you that this is not a rule that needs to be changed. I am someone who has a reduced innume system due to chemo and sure would not want to have the chance of any contact with salmonella while on the train. Leave the turtle at home!

I wonder what the CDC would say about spending extended periods riding around on carpeted mass transit while recovering from chemotherapy.

Wow. That's compassionate and caring.

But, since you asked: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/health-status.htm

 

[Aaron]

Judging by grammar and syntax, this seems (to me) to be a tween-ish individual ...

I'm going off-topic here, but I really really wish it were that easy. I see far too much bad writing out there to reliably make those guesses. People on the internet especially don't want to take the time to ensure that what they write can be understood by the people reading it. And, the abbreviations that arose from texting appear far too often these days in the writing of people who really should know better, and it has the result of getting otherwise intelligent people mistaken for twelve year old girls.

I'm not really criticizing those who didn't learn to write properly. Rather, I'm complaining about the people that willfully disregard things like spelling and punctuation in the name of ease or speed. It's a selfish mentality that says "I'm not willing to do anything extra to help people even though just a tiny bit of extra effort on my part would save lots of readers' time and relieve them from the frustration of having to decipher it to make sense of it."

Rant over...

 

[George Harris]

Quotes from the advisory by the CDC regarding turtles:

• Do not have a turtle in any household that includes children under 5, the elderly, or people who have lowered natural resistance to disease due to pregnancy, cancer, chemotherapy, organ transplants, diabetes, liver problems or other diseases. A family expecting a child should remove any pet reptile or amphibian from the home before the infant arrives.
  
  ​
  
  
  
• Remember, turtles are cute, but contaminated. Handle all turtles and surfaces that have come in contact with turtles as if they are contaminated with Salmonella, because there is a good possibility that they are.
  
  ​
  
  
  
  
  ​
  
  
  
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And dogs, cats, birds, etc. are not contaminated with various and sundry germs? These cautions seem a little over the top. I would think most of the cautions listed would apply to other animals as well as turtles. Don't forget to wash your hands before eating and touching your eyes, etc. and you should be alright.

This little caution sounds a lot like the signs that exist in almost every building in California that read something to the effect, "Caution this building contains (or may contain) chemicals that are known to cause cancer, birth defects," and maybe a whole list of other things. I have quit reading them. The main problem with these things is that they are so common that if there was one in any location that had a real problem, no one would take any notice.

 

[Ryan]

And dogs, cats, birds, etc. are not contaminated with various and sundry germs? These cautions seem a little over the top. I would think most of the cautions listed would apply to other animals as well as turtles. Don't forget to wash your hands before eating and touching your eyes, etc. and you should be alright.

I can't seem to find any CDC recommendations to kick cats or dogs out of your house if you have infants in the house...

 

[Texan Eagle]

Two things have amazed me-

1) The OP has not come back to reply at all

2) Two pages into the thread, nobody has yet pointed out the most important thing the OP needs to know- if you sneak in your turtle (and cat, dog, zebra, giraffe any animal for that matter) and an Amtrak staff employee sees it or a co-passenger sees and complains to the staff, you and your lovely painted turtle will find yourself at a grade crossing in the middle of nowhere with a free ride in a car with shining lights. Knowing this possibility, decide for yourself if you want to risk taking the turtle or not.

 

[rusty spike]

Like many OP "guest_" on this forum, they "hit-n-run". Probably has not been back to even see the answers, or saw the first answer from JoeBas which was a 'no" and then took off. But it made for an interesting thread. hboy:

 

[Naismith]

Quotes from the advisory by the CDC regarding turtles:

• Do not have a turtle in any household that includes children under 5, the elderly, or people who have lowered natural resistance to disease due to pregnancy, cancer, chemotherapy, organ transplants, diabetes, liver problems or other diseases. A family expecting a child should remove any pet reptile or amphibian from the home before the infant arrives.
  
  ​
  
  
  
• Remember, turtles are cute, but contaminated. Handle all turtles and surfaces that have come in contact with turtles as if they are contaminated with Salmonella, because there is a good possibility that they are.
  
  ​
  
  
  

And dogs, cats, birds, etc. are not contaminated with various and sundry germs? These cautions seem a little over the top. I would think most of the cautions listed would apply to other animals as well as turtles. Don't forget to wash your hands before eating and touching your eyes, etc. and you should be alright.

This little caution sounds a lot like the signs that exist in almost every building in California that read something to the effect, "Caution this building contains (or may contain) chemicals that are known to cause cancer, birth defects," and maybe a whole list of other things. I have quit reading them. The main problem with these things is that they are so common that if there was one in any location that had a real problem, no one would take any notice.

Additional information from the CDC advisory:

Did you know that the sale of turtles less than 4 inches has been banned in the United States since 1975? This is because turtles pose a high risk of spreading disease, especially to children. The ban by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has prevented an estimated 100,000 cases of salmonellosis annually in children. This ban prohibiting the sale of small turtles likely remains the most effective public health action to prevent turtle-associated salmonellosis.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Quotes from the advisory by the CDC regarding turtles:

• Do not have a turtle in any household that includes children under 5, the elderly, or people who have lowered natural resistance to disease due to pregnancy, cancer, chemotherapy, organ transplants, diabetes, liver problems or other diseases. A family expecting a child should remove any pet reptile or amphibian from the home before the infant arrives.
  
  ​
  
  
  
• Remember, turtles are cute, but contaminated. Handle all turtles and surfaces that have come in contact with turtles as if they are contaminated with Salmonella, because there is a good possibility that they are.
  
  ​
  
  
  

And dogs, cats, birds, etc. are not contaminated with various and sundry germs? These cautions seem a little over the top. I would think most of the cautions listed would apply to other animals as well as turtles. Don't forget to wash your hands before eating and touching your eyes, etc. and you should be alright.

This little caution sounds a lot like the signs that exist in almost every building in California that read something to the effect, "Caution this building contains (or may contain) chemicals that are known to cause cancer, birth defects," and maybe a whole list of other things. I have quit reading them. The main problem with these things is that they are so common that if there was one in any location that had a real problem, no one would take any notice.

Additional information from the CDC advisory:

Did you know that the sale of turtles less than 4 inches has been banned in the United States since 1975? This is because turtles pose a high risk of spreading disease, especially to children. The ban by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has prevented an estimated 100,000 cases of salmonellosis annually in children. This ban prohibiting the sale of small turtles likely remains the most effective public health action to prevent turtle-associated salmonellosis.

100,000 annually??? I doubt it.

 

[JoeBas]

Why?

 

[Ispolkom]

Why?

He doubts scaremongers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, I guess.

Me, I tend to trust public health experts. But that's just my fondness for extended life expectancy, for which public health efforts are mostly responsible.

 

[George Harris]

Why?

He doubts scaremongers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, I guess.

Me, I tend to trust public health experts. But that's just my fondness for extended life expectancy, for which public health efforts are mostly responsible.

My main problem with absolutely trusting these or any other "experts" is having been around long enough to know that on any given subject, wait a while and their "expert pronouncements" will change with time. Take it all with use of judgment. Don't blindly follow any of it.

Yes, there may be problems with tiny turtles, but 100,000 cases per year? Come on, get real. How many people had pet turtles before there were restrictions?

The reason I raised the issue of cats and dogs: Have you ever watched what a dog does? Do you really want your face licked by a tongue after it has licked a dog's butt? If you have a dog it happens. And we are worried about turtles?

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Why?

He doubts scaremongers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, I guess.

Me, I tend to trust public health experts. But that's just my fondness for extended life expectancy, for which public health efforts are mostly responsible.

Maybe it's more along the lines of "there are only 42,000 cases per year in the US (from the CDC) and that I don't think that turtles alone would be spreading 2.5 times that per year"

Come on. Just because I am being more realistic doesn't mean I don't want to live. Ridiculous.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I wonder what the CDC would say about spending extended periods riding around on carpeted mass transit while recovering from chemotherapy.

Wow. That's compassionate and caring. But, since you asked: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/health-status.htm

I'm surprised that the CDC is so vague about the very real threats facing immunocompromised travelers after they were so crystal clear about the rather questionable threat of a healthy person being within ten feet of turtle cooties.

The ban by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has prevented an estimated 100,000 cases of salmonellosis annually in children.

I think it's pretty clear that unless and until Amtrak heeds the CDC's warning to ban children from all trains the threat of uncontrollable disease outbreaks will remain unresolved.

 

[haolerider]

Seems to me that the CDC has some pretty good reasons for not having pet turtles, so in my opinion the CDC confirms the Amtrak rule of no,pets of any kind. Rules are there for a reason and all the discussion about breaking the rules that individuals feel are not important is not correct. Yes, we have been given a brain, but rational thought tells you that this is not a rule that needs to be changed. I am someone who has a reduced innume system due to chemo and sure would not want to have the chance of any contact with salmonella while on the train. Leave the turtle at home!

I wonder what the CDC would say about spending extended periods riding around on carpeted mass transit while recovering from chemotherapy.

Actually, I avoid mass transit and wear a mask if in a large crowd. This is no laughing matter and the CDC and my doctors agree about avoiding mass transit, planes, trains, etc!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Seems to me that the CDC has some pretty good reasons for not having pet turtles, so in my opinion the CDC confirms the Amtrak rule of no,pets of any kind. Rules are there for a reason and all the discussion about breaking the rules that individuals feel are not important is not correct. Yes, we have been given a brain, but rational thought tells you that this is not a rule that needs to be changed. I am someone who has a reduced innume system due to chemo and sure would not want to have the chance of any contact with salmonella while on the train. Leave the turtle at home!

I wonder what the CDC would say about spending extended periods riding around on carpeted mass transit while recovering from chemotherapy.

Actually, I avoid mass transit and wear a mask if in a large crowd. This is no laughing matter and the CDC and my doctors agree about avoiding mass transit, planes, trains, etc!

Nobody said compromised immune systems were a laughing matter. On the other hand, turtles sickening hundreds of thousands of otherwise healthy Americans who can't be bothered to take a few seconds to wash their hands before putting them in their mouth? Yeah that's worthy of a laugh.

 

[FriskyFL]

At this point, "rules is rules", and until such time that Amtrak decides to change their policy regarding pets on trains, you and your turtle will be subject to those rules and the consequences therein. Keeping that in mind, here's hoping that you and your turtle have an uneventful journey.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Seems to me that the CDC has some pretty good reasons for not having pet turtles, so in my opinion the CDC confirms the Amtrak rule of no,pets of any kind. Rules are there for a reason and all the discussion about breaking the rules that individuals feel are not important is not correct. Yes, we have been given a brain, but rational thought tells you that this is not a rule that needs to be changed. I am someone who has a reduced innume system due to chemo and sure would not want to have the chance of any contact with salmonella while on the train. Leave the turtle at home!

I wonder what the CDC would say about spending extended periods riding around on carpeted mass transit while recovering from chemotherapy.

Actually, I avoid mass transit and wear a mask if in a large crowd. This is no laughing matter and the CDC and my doctors agree about avoiding mass transit, planes, trains, etc!

You're not alone. It's SOP in many Asian countries (Japan/China etc.) to wear a surgical mask when one has a cold, so as not to spread their germs around and infect others... Something I wish was done more in the USA... but would probably be looked down upon as being too weird... (i.e. "Get away from me... you got the Plague or something???")...

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Why?

He doubts scaremongers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, I guess.

Me, I tend to trust public health experts. But that's just my fondness for extended life expectancy, for which public health efforts are mostly responsible.

My main problem with absolutely trusting these or any other "experts" is having been around long enough to know that on any given subject, wait a while and their "expert pronouncements" will change with time. Take it all with use of judgment. Don't blindly follow any of it.

Yes, there may be problems with tiny turtles, but 100,000 cases per year? Come on, get real. How many people had pet turtles before there were restrictions?

 

The reason I raised the issue of cats and dogs: Have you ever watched what a dog does? Do you really want your face licked by a tongue after it has licked a dog's butt? If you have a dog it happens. And we are worried about turtles?

Me, me, me...and I'm still here to tell about it (though my memory of having them is very vague at this time :giggle: ).

 

[Ryan]

Why?

He doubts scaremongers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, I guess.

Me, I tend to trust public health experts. But that's just my fondness for extended life expectancy, for which public health efforts are mostly responsible.

Yeah, but look out for those public health "experts". Apparently vague feelings and intuition is smarter than those guys.

 

[the_traveler]

I agree with many of the warnings from groups like the CDC, NIH, etc...but not all. How many of us grew up 30-50 years ago playing with things now banned or have warnings, and are still here to talk about it?

And remember those "experts" 20-40 years ago who were warning about "Global COOLING" (because it was snowing in the south)? Many of them are the same "experts" who are now warning us about "Global WARMING"!