Uber vs. a regular taxicab

[willem]

Thanks for that link, caravanman. It's an interesting article.

 

[cirdan]

maybe this already exists but i haven't seen it yet.

Where I think Uber is missng a trick is when you tell them where you are now.

I don't want to call an Uber on the app when I'm already at a station. I want to to tell them I'm on this or that train and leave it to the Uber system to work out when i will be at destination (including any late running that may occur between now and my arrivals time) so the Uber car will be there to pick me up.

At airports a GPS system could even track my precise location so the driver knows, now I'm picking up my luggage, now I'm walking towards the pick up point etc, so they can coordinate their position to pick me up seamslessly.

As long as Uber can't work that stuff out, it's just easier for me to walk to the front of a row of waiting taxis.

 

[cirdan]

I thought this BBC item on Uber was interesting, and looks at a different aspect of the long term costs...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38252405

Ed.

I'm not sure about the type of statment that says Uber cars could replace city buses.

People carrying crude oil in jars and bottles might some day replace pipelines and tanker trucks, but I don't think so somehow.

There is a reason that eficiency scales.

 

[jebr]

The Naked Capitalism article linked in the BBC article (and the three preceding articles in that series) are very interesting. It argues that Uber simply won't be sustainable unless they find a way to raise rates, probably by creating a monopoly. I do think the one caveat is that if they're able to develop autonomous vehicle technology very rapidly to the point where human drivers are not required, they may be able to find some way to use their scale to reduce costs, but right now they don't have a lot of decreased costs due to scale.

Uber will almost certainly never replace high-ridership transit routes. Even if somehow the cost lowers to a point with autonomous cars that it can be competitive with the cost of running buses, the space needed to run individual cars is much larger per person than what is needed on a bus or subway car. While I don't think that it's a terrible idea to use it to replace general public dial a ride service or even some low-usage bus routes, a backup plan needs to be in place if they're relying on Uber to replace services (and making sure that the math will still work out if they have to fall back to a taxi company, otherwise having plans in place to quickly ramp up bus service again as needed.)

 

[saxman]

I've found Uber to be perfect for that "last mile" when taking transit. When I have to take transit to the outer suburbs and bus service is either poor to non-existant, or very pedestrian unfriendly. In fact, Uber has marketed themselves for this very thing. They were a big proponent of Seattle's transit ballot initiative that passed in the last election. Where taxi cab companies and their unions have fought hard against transit, Uber/Lyft have realized transit has actually increased their usability. New York airports would have been connected by rail decades ago if it weren't for the taxi's fighting against it.

 

[PerRock]

maybe this already exists but i haven't seen it yet.

Where I think Uber is missng a trick is when you tell them where you are now.

I don't want to call an Uber on the app when I'm already at a station. I want to to tell them I'm on this or that train and leave it to the Uber system to work out when i will be at destination (including any late running that may occur between now and my arrivals time) so the Uber car will be there to pick me up.

At airports a GPS system could even track my precise location so the driver knows, now I'm picking up my luggage, now I'm walking towards the pick up point etc, so they can coordinate their position to pick me up seamslessly.

As long as Uber can't work that stuff out, it's just easier for me to walk to the front of a row of waiting taxis.

That sounds like a bit much for any one app to do. Thousands of aiports & stations each with their own timings, etc. And what about if you decided to grab a cup of coffee or use the restroom?

However on Lyft, and I believe Uber, you can set a different pick-up point from where your GPS is. So if you're 5-10mins out from the station you can tell Lyft to send a car to the station & it should be there. You can also add a pickup note in Lyft so you can say "I'm on Train #" and the driver will hopefully wait. Of course the driver could just cancel the fare and move on, but that's a different situation.

peter

 

[Devil's Advocate]

At airports a GPS system could even track my precise location so the driver knows, now I'm picking up my luggage, now I'm walking towards the pick up point etc, so they can coordinate their position to pick me up seamslessly. As long as Uber can't work that stuff out, it's just easier for me to walk to the front of a row of waiting taxis.

At my hometown airport you can initiate an Uber/Lyft ride while still inside the airport and meet them at a designated ride sharing curb area as you exit. I don't check luggage so I simply initialized the pickup as I disembarked my aircraft. By the time I reached the curb my ride was waiting for me. Just as easy as catching the next cab in my view.

 

[cirdan]

New York airports would have been connected by rail decades ago if it weren't for the taxi's fighting against it.

Is this so?

I've heard on the contrary that the airports gets cash for every taxi that drives onto their land, and that it's the airports that don't want people to use transit.

 

[cirdan]

maybe this already exists but i haven't seen it yet.

Where I think Uber is missng a trick is when you tell them where you are now.

I don't want to call an Uber on the app when I'm already at a station. I want to to tell them I'm on this or that train and leave it to the Uber system to work out when i will be at destination (including any late running that may occur between now and my arrivals time) so the Uber car will be there to pick me up.

At airports a GPS system could even track my precise location so the driver knows, now I'm picking up my luggage, now I'm walking towards the pick up point etc, so they can coordinate their position to pick me up seamslessly.

As long as Uber can't work that stuff out, it's just easier for me to walk to the front of a row of waiting taxis.

That sounds like a bit much for any one app to do. Thousands of aiports & stations each with their own timings, etc. And what about if you decided to grab a cup of coffee or use the restroom?

Uber wouldn't need to know the precise layout and timings of every airport. What they can do is aggregate data. They tend to pick up lots of people at airports so could have a lot of data to do statistics with. Then they could say, on average it takes 10 minutes from picking up luggage to reaching the pick up point.

 

[saxman]

New York airports would have been connected by rail decades ago if it weren't for the taxi's fighting against it.

Is this so?

I've heard on the contrary that the airports gets cash for every taxi that drives onto their land, and that it's the airports that don't want people to use transit.

I don't know the exact details but yes, but a transit was proposed in the 70's or 80's to go from JFK to La Guardia and on into Manhattan.

And why would JFK and Newark be connected by rail now if they didn't want it? I agree that paying the $5 surcharge to ride the Airtrain is a little much, but thats the Port Authority for you. LGA will be getting a rail connection to LIRR and the Subway at some point with the new terminals being redone.

 

[Anderson]

On JFK/LGA, it's possible that there was a round of pushback which abated (and/or was part of a larger, more complicated situation).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm waiting for a major showdown between a taxi group and Uber to happen and the taxis to end up being the ones thrown out in a "kill the king" approach (e.g. a city council deciding that the politically rational move is obliterating the taxi drivers as a political force before an election four years hence).

I agree that Uber won't replace high-capacity lines. What they do fill in is gaps in places like Newport News, where transit basically doesn't exist. I think the buses here run about every hour at best, for example, and transfers are utterly inane. I checked one time and it would literally have probably been faster to walk several miles than to take the bus, per the agency's own calculator, not to mention more expensive than driving. The main question will be agencies getting Uber to commit to a certain service level alongside the subsidies (e.g. "You need to make sure you have drivers 'on the clock' in this area without surge fares"). However, in places where the bus runs less than every 30 minutes outside of rush hour, subsidizing Uber probably makes more sense as long as you're able to somehow also provide subsidies for passengers for whom Uber gets expensive quickly.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm waiting for a major showdown between a taxi group and Uber to happen and the taxis to end up being the ones thrown out in a "kill the king" approach (e.g. a city council deciding that the politically rational move is obliterating the taxi drivers as a political force before an election four years hence).

You can say it as much as you like but I think you'll be waiting just shy of forever to see that. Taxi companies wouldn't have been able to codify absurd rules or demand exorbitant rates and nullify the threat of price competition without the help of the local councils.

 

[Anderson]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm waiting for a major showdown between a taxi group and Uber to happen and the taxis to end up being the ones thrown out in a "kill the king" approach (e.g. a city council deciding that the politically rational move is obliterating the taxi drivers as a political force before an election four years hence).

You can say it as much as you like but I think you'll be waiting just shy of forever to see that. Taxi companies wouldn't have been able to codify absurd rules or demand exorbitant rates and nullify the threat of price competition without the help of the local councils.

I really think you presume too much. Though it varies based on jurisdiction, there's solid evidence that the taxis' situation is sliding fast. The best evidence of this is the price of an NYC taxi medallion dropping by about 50% over the last few years. Moreover, there are plenty of places which are not New York or San Francisco and where the taxi lobby is hardly going to be as strong...and frankly in some places I suspect the number of Uber drivers is likely to substantially exceed the number of taxi drivers.

 

[ScouseAndy]

For my political views I wont use Uber, I have looked into it closely (UK Uber - other nations may vary) - and I found many drivers had been ripped off and had been paid less than the UK nationally minumum wage (in some instances even before their costs of fuel let alone deprication) so morally couldnt never use them. However prior to my research after trying to use them in both Liverpool & Manchester (admittedly after major supporting events) the costs they where charging where exhorbiant to say least (after a RL international match they wanted 15x the standard fare from Liverpool FC's anfield to the train station) and the stories in left wing Uk media about drivers not getting paid etc it left a very sour taste in my mouth

 

[Long Train Runnin']

I will say over the past couple weeks I took a couple ubers that were simply "too cheap". I used Uber for a ride from the airport in Manilla to my hotel it was about 25 minutes each way. Both fares were under 3USD in newer model mini vans. I really was scratching my head at how that would even be possible. I am no stranger to labor rates in Southeast Asia, but I almost felt guilty. Both rides there went smoothly, and since I was only in town for one night it made it so much easier then worrying about converting currency and all that. While there was no common language between the driver and myself I have to say it was quite a painless procedure to simply slide in the back of the car, and end up where I needed to be in a foreign country.

Last weekend I took advantage of Uber in San Jose Costa Rica, and I spent over an hour in the car on arrival. Drive spoke excellent English as she used to work for a Western software company. I figured that ride was going to cost me a pretty penny. It converted to about 17 dollars. On the return the driver didn't speak any English and my very poor Spanish was just enough to work everything out. We actually stopped for fuel, which was certainly a new experience for me in an Uber. That ride ran me about 15 dollars.

I have to say that is getting pretty slick when you start to visit parts of the world, and can get by totally cashless. With some many 0% foreign transaction fee credit cards it really takes a hassle out of travel. The strangest place I managed to get by without cash this year after visiting 30 countries? Longyearbyen in Svalbard, Norway. Even the shuttle that runs between the hotels from the worlds most Northern airport accepted credit cards. I mean sure you are technically in Europe, but I couldn't believe there really was no need for paper NOK up there.

 

[Shortline]

I'm a recent convert, but am an Uber fan. In my limited experience with Uber, it's cleaner, faster, safer, and more convenient. Used I extnsively in Chicago, Birmingham, and OKC so far. Love it. Have not yet tried Lyft, probably should. Heck, just the simple fact that Austin bans it, tells me it's probably a better product at a lower price. Austin just hates capitalistic free market enterprise.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Heck, just the simple fact that Austin bans it, tells me it's probably a better product at a lower price. Austin just hates capitalistic free market enterprise.

Austin never banned Uber or Lyft. In fact Uber and Lfyt can still return to Austin and probably will again in the future. Uber and Lyft didn't agree with Austin's new rules about more invasive background checks for drivers and took their concerns to the voters. Rightly or wrongly when the votes were counted Uber and Lyft had lost. Rather than comply with the new rules they simply picked up and left town. Which is their right of course, but all things considered it sounds as though the bulk of your disagreement is with the concept of democracy rather than with the city of Austin.

 

[Shortline]

Exactly. The city of Austin demographics chased it out, due to unnecessary and overly burdensome regulations on a business model that provided more efficient service at lower cost. Follow the money-Why was this issue brought for a vote in the first place? Austin is quickly becoming the California of Texas. But, you're exactly right, democracy in action. Surprises me frankly, as progressive as Austin is, I really expected the younger demographic to embrace the new model, and technology. But that's cool, smelly cabs, and a commuter train that only runs part time is fine for them. So be it.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The vast majority of anti-Uber/Lyft pushback across the country and the rest of the world has come not from concerned voters but from city councils honoring the wishes of representatives of conventional taxi interests. Following the money leads you to taxi companies which stand to lose lots of entrenched council-sanctioned revenue by being augmented or replaced by competition from ride sharing services. Voters didn't make a single dime from refusing to reverse the new driver security rules.

The ride sharing services made the erroneous assumption that Austin would be a good place to make their big stand and reverse the trend of increasing security regulation in response to rapes and other violent behavior. That turned out to be an erroneous assessment of the situation. Austin residents used and enjoyed ride sharing services but they weren't married to a specific company and were willing to risk angering or even losing Uber and Lyft in order to ensure stronger background checks from other ride sharing services in the future.

Your claim that a major city which has only known capitalism simultaneously hates capitalism is both illogical and irrational. In fact most of the people I know who live in or around Austin are only slightly less enthusiastic than the rest of the hyper-capitalistic state in which they reside. When singing the praises of free markets you might want to keep in mind that some of the freest markets in the world are located in places like Nigeria and Somalia. If that's the kind of market you favor over Austin then I honestly don't know what to say.

 

[Shortline]

If nothing else, you're still amusing.

 

[jis]

If nothing else, you're still amusing.

Ran out of arguments, eh?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Shortline:

There are now Six Ride Share Companies and Four Chartered Taxi Companies serving Austin ( the Home of Alex Jones!) and Uber and Lyft are operating in the Metro Area around Austin.

Thus it seems that there is plenty of money to be made in the People's Republic of Austin which now has the highest per capita income in Texas and governments that are strongly pro business.

Amusing even if it doesn't fit the Right Wing/Fox Model that equates Austin with California and Cuba eh?!!!

 

[GBNorman]

This is a very interesting topic that I only discovered today.

I last set foot in a for hire vehicle this past August in Linz, Austria. Having already walked about five miles that day, and with "threatening" skies, I hopped into a taxicab at a stand, said one word - Hauptbahnhof - and was on my way with no apparent tour of the city.

I have been in one Uber in this life, going out to Dinner with a friend and his "squeeze" in Atlanta this past April, we intended to use the hotel's at which I was staying - Crowne Plaza Perimeter- Courtesy Van to a restaurant - Capital Grille - within its two mile "range". But out we go and there goes the van - and our reservation is in twenty minutes. I'm of the "I'll get my car from the Valet" mindset (they were staying at another hotel in Buckhead). He says "no need" and he is tapping on his phone. About five minutes later a late model Ford Explorer pulls up and he leads the way in. I didn't know what was going on other than that we were at the restaurant on time and without incident for our reservation. I said to him "who was that guy?" "An Uber driver". "Well, I guess I've now been in an Uber".

But for one who has little occasion to use for hire transport - Mr. Shank and Miss Mare still work pretty well - there is always a first for this 77yo.

 

[jis]

Shortline:

There are now Six Ride Share Companies and Four Chartered Taxi Companies serving Austin ( the Home of Alex Jones!) and Uber and Lyft are operating in the Metro Area around Austin.

Thus it seems that there is plenty of money to be made in the People's Republic of Austin which now has the highest per capita income in Texas and governments that are strongly pro business.

Amusing even if it doesn't fit the Right Wing/Fox Model that equates Austin with California and Cuba eh?!!!

Inevitably the the People's Republics in the US tend to have higher income levels than the destitute homes of laissez-faire. Some of the latter are totally at the bottom of the economic pile these days and digging deeper.

 

[CrazyTrain]

I haven't read through every single argument on here, so I'm just going to respond to the OP since my recent experiences were quite the opposite. I took the train to Chicago and therefore had to rely on public transportation and Uber/Lyft to get around. I used Uber to get from the train station to the hotel. Not long to wait at all. The driver was silent the whole time. I went to Wrigley Field that same day and my friend and I got an Uber and he dropped us off at two separate locations. Again, nothing was said except between my friend and I. When I wanted to go to the Museum of Science and industry, I did a lot of price comparisons. I asked the doormen on two different occasions how much a taxi fare would be. First guy told me $10-12; second guy said $12-15. When I looked at both Uber and Lyft, the price was around $14, so I figured that was comparable to a taxi, so I took a taxi. Taxi was $18.75. I took a Lyft back to the hotel and saved $5 on the fare because the MSI offered a code for such.

I'm sure there are plenty of instances where a taxi would make more sense than Uber or Lyft and vice versa. At no time were any of the Uber or Lyft drivers overly talkative, but then again I'm not the kind of person who minded. The taxi driver, on the other hand, chattered practically the whole way there. I don't see anything wrong with Uber and Lyft bringing the competition. I feel all three options, as well as regular city bus transportation, have something to offer different people. Variety is what we need. Not a singular mode of transportation.