UP Derailment on Sunset Ltd. Route.

[cirdan]

I'm surprised actually that the cafeteria and/or kitchen cars don't have some sort of autonomous back-up power supply of their own. Be it in the form of a small generator or of batteries. Such cars get switched around and you cannot always guarantee there will be a locomotive attached at all times. Or if you did that would be an inefficient use of the locomotive. For example you don't necessarily want to empty and shut down the freezer/refrigerator every time when laying over in yards between trips.

 

[John Bredin]

[Another lenghty insistence, in a non-food thread now, that flex meals are literally garbage and literally not food despite some people who've eaten them saying some are edible.]

Alright Cato, we get it, Carthago delenda est and all that.

 

[railiner]

I'm surprised actually that the cafeteria and/or kitchen cars don't have some sort of autonomous back-up power supply of their own. Be it in the form of a small generator or of batteries. Such cars get switched around and you cannot always guarantee there will be a locomotive attached at all times. Or if you did that would be an inefficient use of the locomotive. For example you don't necessarily want to empty and shut down the freezer/refrigerator every time when laying over in yards between trips.

Perhaps they should have a somewhat improved battery over the original battery they came with, mainly for emergency lighting and P. A. power...
I don't think they want or are allowed to have engine-generators on board nowadays.

As far as laying over in stations and yards...regular layover locations usually have a 'shoreline' power connection to plug into....

 

[frequentflyer]

Is there a reason to keep an engine running aside from keeping some food cold.? It doesn't strike me as cost effective but maybe it is.

If it is not cost effective then the food should be donated to a local food pantry and new food can be purchased when the line opens provided they get authority from Washington, DC to do so. I have been to Tucson and they have a lot of supermarkets there. Should be no shortage of food.

Anyone who has to endure a Tucson - San Antonio bus ride should be given a full refund (but of course Amtrak is a transportation company and has provided transportation so we can't do that.)

Liability makes not worth it. The first person who gets sick or even thinks they are sick because of the food, and its over. Back in the day when airlines served meals, I used to work for SkyChefs and, we would throw away whole plane full and untouched meals into the trash. Why not give it to the homeless shelter? Liability.

 

[west point]

There are all kinds of US FDA regulations for food on the trains. Probably not worthwhile. When there is a food problem Amtrak always buys from well known vendors.

 

[Rasputin]

When there is a food problem Amtrak always buys from well known vendors.

I would like to know who those well known vendors are so I can avoid them when shopping.

 

[Bob Dylan]

There are all kinds of US FDA regulations for food on the trains. Probably not worthwhile. When there is a food problem Amtrak always buys from well known vendors.

Like KFC,Pizza Hut,Subway etc.!!!

 

[jis]

I would like to know who those well known vendors are so I can avoid them when shopping.

Mostly Aramark. I guess there have been times when they got stuff from Sodexho too as well as Sysco.

 

[Rasputin]

For a few years Aramark ran the cafeteria at the local college. I ate there a number of times and thought the food was quite good. The food there was far superior to what we had under contemporary dining/flexible dining or whatever the iteration was called on the Lake Shore in May 2019.

 

[jis]

For a few years Aramark ran the cafeteria at the local college. I ate there a number of times and thought the food was quite good. The food there was far superior to what we had under contemporary dining/flexible dining or whatever the iteration was called on the Lake Shore in May 2019.

I think Aramark will deliver stuff commensurate with whatever you write in the mutually agreed upon contract with a mutually agreed upon price. I doubt Aramark is the problem here.

 

[OBS]

I think Aramark will deliver stuff commensurate with whatever you write in the mutually agreed upon contract with a mutually agreed upon price. I doubt Aramark is the problem here.

This is correct....Aramark is just the messenger...

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

This is correct....Aramark is just the messenger...

Exactly! Aramark caters to many jails and prisons as well.

 

[me_little_me]

Exactly! Aramark caters to many jails and prisons as well.

Does this mean we should bang our metal cups on the Diner tables in unison?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Another thread derailed by food....

 

[Rasputin]

Does this mean we should bang our metal cups on the Diner tables in unison?

Too late. Metal cups went away at the same time as fresh flowers in the dining cars.

 

[Rasputin]

Another thread derailed by food....

The question raised was whether keeping food cold was the sole reason why one locomotive on the train had to be kept running instead of shutting both locomotives down. That question has not been answered.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The question raised was whether keeping food cold was the sole reason why one locomotive on the train had to be kept running instead of shutting both locomotives down. That question has not been answered.

And the thread was still derailed because most of the other food posts do not address that question.

 

[Rasputin]

And the thread was still derailed because most of the other food posts do not address that question.

Very true but we still had to know the value of the food that might be lost compared to the value of the fuel burned and the cost of attending to the operating locomotive.

 

[PVD]

To keep refrigeration going in Arizona this time of year, would take a pretty robust battery plant, a generator would need a decent amount of fuel storage for that size and length of running time. Where that would be able to be placed (safely) in the car, I have no idea. For the number of times the cars are set out with no shore power, or not part of a train where a unit would be left running for passenger HEP, would it be worth it?

 

[OBS]

To keep refrigeration going in Arizona this time of year, would take a pretty robust battery plant, a generator would need a decent amount of fuel storage for that size and length of running time. Where that would be able to be placed (safely) in the car, I have no idea. For the number of times the cars are set out with no shore power, or not part of a train where a unit would be left running for passenger HEP, would it be worth it?

Not a chance...

 

[jis]

To keep refrigeration going in Arizona this time of year, would take a pretty robust battery plant, a generator would need a decent amount of fuel storage for that size and length of running time. Where that would be able to be placed (safely) in the car, I have no idea. For the number of times the cars are set out with no shore power, or not part of a train where a unit would be left running for passenger HEP, would it be worth it?

No it won't. But the army of armchair CEOs will all have a go at it at least a couple of times in their life anyway

 

[Rasputin]

I don't recall anyone suggesting a generator, a gas refrigerator or Yeti cooler to keep the valuable food cold while the train is stationary for a couple of days.

 

[TrackWalker]

My RV fridge/freezer works on both propane/shore power(HEP). If shore power is lost/shut off propane automatically cuts in.

What a novel concept.

 

[MARC Rider]

Do passenger locomotives have "auxiliary power units" (i.e, a smaller engine that runs a generator to supply HEP). When I was at EPA, we were big on encouraging the truckers to install them in their 18 wheelers so they could keep their sleeper cabs air conditioned while the drivers sleep on rest breaks without having to idle their honking big main engine.

 

[jis]

Do passenger locomotives have "auxiliary power units" (i.e, a smaller engine that runs a generator to supply HEP). When I was at EPA, we were big on encouraging the truckers to install them in their 18 wheelers so they could keep their sleeper cabs air conditioned while the drivers sleep on rest breaks without having to idle their honking big main engine.

Most modern diesels do not, since they can run the prime mover at very low speed to just power the HEP. The HEP is fed from an additional inverter on the main DC bus, the same one that has the traction alternators hanging off of it. The power demand placed on the bus determines how fast the prime mover is run to get the alternator to produce enough power to satisfy the demand. When there is low power demand the prime mover runs only as hard as it needs to to satisfy that demand. Wonders of solid state power electronics. An added advantage is regenerated power feeds the HEP first before feeding anything to the dynamic grid or battery or whatever one does with surplus power in the locomotive. Of course in elecrics the surplus is fed back to the catenary if it is receptive.

And of course they are also Tier IV prime movers.

In the P42 generation, there is a special HEP only non traction mode, which essentially does the same thing. That is why when at a stop it is determined that the stop will be long, you momentarily lose HEP power as they transition the engine from traction mode to HEP mode. And then just before starting to move again they change the mode to traction momentarily switching off HEP for the transition.

In the F40 generation unless HEP was provided by a separate pony motor, it was the prime mover that was screaming away at a stop providing HEP and waking up even the dead within miles of the stop.