UP discouraged employees from reporting freight car defects (per news article)

[Steve4031]

A UP car inspector claims that they were disconfirm reporting defects on freight cars. The quote from a manager was “56 others are not filing these reports”.

https://apple.news/APV5pRClYTu2vPB_rrxUXTg
I’m thinking I followed protocol for posting. If I did not let me know and I’ll fix it.

I think this is important and goes under freight railroads.

 

[Maglev]

I'm afraid to click on an Apple News link; it takes me to some other weird program...

Here's another link:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/03/us-rail-workers-east-palestine-ohio-train-crash
One comment: rail lines do not only run through poor neighborhoods. Some of the most expensive real estate in the Puget Sound region is next to a BNSF mainline which carries oil trains among other trains.

 

[Steve4031]

I'm afraid to click on an Apple News link; it takes me to some other weird program...

Here's another link:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/03/us-rail-workers-east-palestine-ohio-train-crash
One comment: rail lines do not only run through poor neighborhoods. Some of the most expensive real estate in the Puget Sound region is next to a BNSF mainline which carries oil trains among other trains.

Thank you for the assist.

 

[west point]

This incident is a made review for item. the proposed anonymous reporting system has a car reported not fixed then is fixed shortly later or even worse in a derailment. that really will point out problems.

 

[alpha3]

A UP car inspector claims that they were disconfirm reporting defects on freight cars. The quote from a manager was “56 others are not filing these reports”.

https://apple.news/APV5pRClYTu2vPB_rrxUXTg
I’m thinking I followed protocol for posting. If I did not let me know and I’ll fix it.

I think this is important and goes under freight railroads.

That's a pretty damning article, in light of what happened to that train in East Palestine. All the freight roads want is more profit, at the expense of workers and the hell with safety. As a result, I hope they take a bazooka up the booty from the DOT with stricter rules and enforcement. I think this Norfolk Southern accident may really be a springboard for it, their CEO now has to make a trip to Capitol Hill to answer questions....

 

[Dutchrailnut]

I have seen FRA inspectors who after finding a few defects, got a call on their phone to do their writing but to stop inspecting.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Does the FRA even have inspectors anymore?

The OP story is about training and threshold for maintaining equipment. Wheel seal, shocks, engine gasket can have different levels of leaks. Dry, wet, dripping, and completely blown.

In the Army class 3 was dripping and required repairs. I had a vent clog with dirt and completely blew out the gasket on a differential. Was dismount the truck and got call out for my class 4 leak by the division maintenance boss. I never park directly in front of the shop office again.

So in this story it was at what level of a leak should be addressed. This is a training issue, and sure seem a lack of training for this employee. Railcars are not inspection by the owner, they may not even be seen by a shop for years. There is a technical solution out there, but government regulations are a political target.

 

[daybeers]

All the freight roads want is more profit, at the expense of workers and the hell with safety. As a result, I hope they take a bazooka up the booty from the DOT with stricter rules and enforcement. I think this Norfolk Southern accident may really be a springboard for it, their CEO now has to make a trip to Capitol Hill to answer questions....

I mean, isn't this how the entire US operates? That's capitalism at its core. The EPA is thinking of fining NS a paltry $75k per day; that's a drop in the ocean of their profits. I've seen too much to believe any new rules or enforcement will move the needle much on improving railroad safety and preventing this extremely preventable tragedy from happening again.

 

[MARC Rider]

Well, looks like there's something bipartisan going on in Washington now:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/east-palestine-train-derailment-bipartisan-senators-rail-safety-bill/

 

[joelkfla]

Well, looks like there's something bipartisan going on in Washington now:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/east-palestine-train-derailment-bipartisan-senators-rail-safety-bill/

Just wait until it gets to the House, which the article says is currently bickering over which administration to blame.

 

[Ziv]

I mean, isn't this how the entire US operates? That's capitalism at its core. The EPA is thinking of fining NS a paltry $75k per day; that's a drop in the ocean of their profits. I've seen too much to believe any new rules or enforcement will move the needle much on improving railroad safety and preventing this extremely preventable tragedy from happening again.

This isn't simply about capitalism, it is about a form of capitalism that has grown increasingly dominant in the US and to some extent in Europe over the past 30 years. I do not know if it is linked to the end of the Cold War or if this type of corporate group think merely became more noticeable in the 1990's and early 2000's, but it does seem to be getting much worse of late.
There is a school of thought among MBA's lately that corporate reputation is worth less now than short term profits, whereas in the past the two were closely linked but reputation would come out on top.
Many of the MBA schools now appear to claim to be devoting all their emphasis to enhancing the investors' bottom line and return, but in point of fact it seems to be enriching the top level management teams above everyone else. Boeing is a good case in point. They used to build some of the best aircraft in the world AND make good profits for their investors but increasingly, they do not build very good aircraft and their returns have suffered as well.
Either corporations find a way to rein in this MBA wrought destruction, or the entire capitalist system will be drastically changed. Socialism may not prevail because it is better, but because capitalism murdered itself with a self inflicted death of a thousand cuts.

 

[alpha3]

Well, looks like there's something bipartisan going on in Washington now:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/east-palestine-train-derailment-bipartisan-senators-rail-safety-bill/

Hopefully this gets something done, NS's CEO is supposed to testify soon on Capitol Hill. And the residents of East Palestine are still raising hell, I don't think this is going away anytime soon. NS has pretty much destroyed an entire town. 75k fine a day isn't much but they're going to be found liable and have to pay for a lot more, I think.

Just wait until it gets to the House, which the article says is currently bickering over which administration to blame.

Not much doubt on that though; they're so numerous on Trump rolling back regulations in and around 2018, not just for trains but a lot of industry. I was going to quote some but a few of these stories are behind paywalls, but it's easy to google and see what's out there.

 

[Maglev]

How much does it cost to equip a tank car with ECP? Trump's administration rescinded the requirement.

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/news/phms...ndate-after-ria-finds-costs-outweigh-benefits

 

[TrackWalker]

"...an estimate of $7,800 per tank car to retrofit with ECP brakes."...

Regulations.gov

I figure that to be $936,000 per 120 car unit train plus costs for whatever the locomotives need.

 

[Maglev]

"...an estimate of $7,800 per tank car to retrofit with ECP brakes."...

Regulations.gov

I figure that to be $936,000 per 120 car unit train plus costs for whatever the locomotives need.

Tank cars hold about 30,000 gallons. Even at $1 per gallon value, the cost of refitting the tank cars pales in comparison to the value of what they haul.

 

[GDRRiley]

How much does it cost to equip a tank car with ECP? Trump's administration rescinded the requirement.

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/news/phms...ndate-after-ria-finds-costs-outweigh-benefits

The issue is to really have it matter you need to do all 1.5m freight cars, which are owned by everyone from banks to railroads to customers. Rail is already losing carload freight fast with the US class 1s shedding 20% in the past 10 years due to increasing rates. CP, CN and KCS are the only ones to keep carload freight the same/slightly grow it.
That rule was also extremely narrow with lots of loopholes. Outside of unit trains most hazmat is a few carloads at a time.

 

[railiner]

Does the FRA even have inspectors anymore?

Good question!

I have heard that in some industries, not sure about railroads, that so-called “inspectors”, are Company employees, that are licensed by some government agency, be it local, state, or federal; to perform their inspections on behalf of said agency.
Obviously, a strong conflict of interest.

For example, my bus line has some designated employees that are licensed by the state and federal agencies to test and certify commercial drivers, with no need for a state testing…

 

[joelkfla]

Good question!

I have heard that in some industries, not sure about railroads, that so-called “inspectors”, are Company employees, that are licensed by some government agency, be it local, state, or federal; to perform their inspections on behalf of said agency.
Obviously, a strong conflict of interest.

For example, my bus line has some designated employees that are licensed by the state and federal agencies to test and certify commercial drivers, with no need for a state testing…

I remember a big hubbub about self-inspections by one of the airlines a year or 2 ago. Of course, everyone had forgotten about it a month or so later.

 

[LookingGlassTie]

This isn't simply about capitalism, it is about a form of capitalism that has grown increasingly dominant in the US and to some extent in Europe over the past 30 years. I do not know if it is linked to the end of the Cold War or if this type of corporate group think merely became more noticeable in the 1990's and early 2000's, but it does seem to be getting much worse of late.
There is a school of thought among MBA's lately that corporate reputation is worth less now than short term profits, whereas in the past the two were closely linked but reputation would come out on top.
Many of the MBA schools now appear to claim to be devoting all their emphasis to enhancing the investors' bottom line and return, but in point of fact it seems to be enriching the top level management teams above everyone else. Boeing is a good case in point. They used to build some of the best aircraft in the world AND make good profits for their investors but increasingly, they do not build very good aircraft and their returns have suffered as well.
Either corporations find a way to rein in this MBA wrought destruction, or the entire capitalist system will be drastically changed. Socialism may not prevail because it is better, but because capitalism murdered itself with a self inflicted death of a thousand cuts.

Sounds like "crony capitalism", which many pure capitalists detest.

Seems to me the issue is not profits or "the bottom line" per se, but rather the prevailing attitude toward them.

I'm a capitalist who believes that profits should follow reputation, not vice-versa.

 

[west point]

IMO the reasons advocates state for installing ECP are not worth it. But there some items not considered.
1. A 220 volt bus running 15,000 feet seems unlikely. No matter what gauge wire is used ??
2. The system can monitor certain car parameters including axel temps. If a train separates there could be immediate identification of where the separation has occurred. The engineer could release the brakes of the cars he is still pulling to prevent any run in of the two separate sections.
3. If a DPU is behind any separation it can immediately let the RR know how many cars have derailed . That would immediately allow knowledge of cars involved.
4. How the ECP line loses cars might give some idea of what the sequence of cars that have derailed and if Haz Mat cars have been involved.

 

[NSC1109]

Good question!

I have heard that in some industries, not sure about railroads, that so-called “inspectors”, are Company employees, that are licensed by some government agency, be it local, state, or federal; to perform their inspections on behalf of said agency.
Obviously, a strong conflict of interest.

For example, my bus line has some designated employees that are licensed by the state and federal agencies to test and certify commercial drivers, with no need for a state testing…

*sigh* yes, the FRA has inspectors, I talked to one on the phone two weeks ago for a hazmat issue.

And also: fire the Mechanical Foreman. If I ever had a mechanical foreman tell that to their Carmen and it got back to me I’d go berate him then his boss. Put MY crews in danger for your metrics and you’re going to regret it.

 

[Willbridge]

*sigh* yes, the FRA has inspectors, I talked to one on the phone two weeks ago for a hazmat issue.

And also: fire the Mechanical Foreman. If I ever had a mechanical foreman tell that to their Carmen and it got back to me I’d go berate him then his boss. Put MY crews in danger for your metrics and you’re going to regret it.

State PUC's also may have safety inspectors. I recall driving through the SP yard at Eugene with OPUC staffers and by sheer coincidence coming across the scene of a mild derailment of a switch engine. Wow, the dirty looks from the brass on the scene! The way they looked around at their personnel told me that they thought someone had tipped off the inspection. We concluded that he derailment was never to have happened in official reports.

If I lived in PA or OH I would be checking to see if their PUC's are properly staffed. And testing politicians' words to see if they are carrying out their own state duties.