Use of electric cigarettes in sleeper

[wayman]

What if I just walk around with an UN-lit cigarette? Is that also banned by Amtrak?

How 'bout these?

 

[TVRM610]

The solution to all this would be if Amtrak had an air tight smoking room where the smokers could puff on their cigarettes. If the room was completely air tight it would not annoy the rest of the passengers as all of the smoke would be tightly contained in there. When you are a smoker the more smoke the better the enjoyment!

Amtrak tried that; it didn't work.

Select Superliner coaches had an enclosed room on the lower level where the baggage areas are in some cars today. Despite the vent to the outside, too many smokers would go inside at one time and it would get too smoky for even them. So they'd find some way to prop the door open, venting smoke to the entire car. And of course no matter what you tried, a little always escapes every time someone goes in or out of the room.

Another big problem with those rooms is that the smoker's turned it into a pig sty. They'd bring a cup of soda or a can of soda in, use it as an ashtray instead of those provided, then leave the can/cup behind. The train would hit a bump and now you have a sticky mess with ashes mixed in. Cleaning costs were off the wall.

So between the door propping issues and the cleaning issues, the smokers killed their ability to smoke on the train.

Even worse Alan, do you remember when they converted half of some of the single level lounges into smoking rooms? I really didn't like the idea of taking up half the lounge for that purpose... and yes the smokers of course trashed up the place like you said.

I must admit, I wouldn't want someone puffing on one of these things sitting next to me, if for no other reason than its just plain annoying.

 

[nferr]

The solution to all this would be if Amtrak had an air tight smoking room where the smokers could puff on their cigarettes. If the room was completely air tight it would not annoy the rest of the passengers as all of the smoke would be tightly contained in there. When you are a smoker the more smoke the better the enjoyment!

Everyone you open the door to that "air-tight" compartment the smoke pours out into the rest of the car. Amtrak tried those smoking compartments and it was a disaster.

 

[rrdude]

The solution to all this would be if Amtrak had an air tight smoking room where the smokers could puff on their cigarettes. If the room was completely air tight it would not annoy the rest of the passengers as all of the smoke would be tightly contained in there. When you are a smoker the more smoke the better the enjoyment!

Amtrak tried that; it didn't work.

Select Superliner coaches had an enclosed room on the lower level where the baggage areas are in some cars today. Despite the vent to the outside, too many smokers would go inside at one time and it would get too smoky for even them. So they'd find some way to prop the door open, venting smoke to the entire car. And of course no matter what you tried, a little always escapes every time someone goes in or out of the room.

Another big problem with those rooms is that the smoker's turned it into a pig sty. They'd bring a cup of soda or a can of soda in, use it as an ashtray instead of those provided, then leave the can/cup behind. The train would hit a bump and now you have a sticky mess with ashes mixed in. Cleaning costs were off the wall.

So between the door propping issues and the cleaning issues, the smokers killed their ability to smoke on the train.

Even worse Alan, do you remember when they converted half of some of the single level lounges into smoking rooms? I really didn't like the idea of taking up half the lounge for that purpose... and yes the smokers of course trashed up the place like you said.

I must admit, I wouldn't want someone puffing on one of these things sitting next to me, if for no other reason than its just plain annoying.

Ever chew gum? Have braces as a kid? Cough?

 

[D T Nelson]

Back when I was a smoker, before nicotine gum, when I found myself for a long time in a place where smoking was not allowed, I chewed Red Man. It satisfied the nicotine craving, that's for sure.

I tried them all -- Mail Pouch, Beech Nut, etc. -- but Red Man tasted the best.

Probably, in coach, nicotine gum would be a better choice, but in a sleeper, chew and spit away.

 

[rrdude]

Back when I was a smoker, before nicotine gum, when I found myself for a long time in a place where smoking was not allowed, I chewed Red Man. It satisfied the nicotine craving, that's for sure.
I tried them all -- Mail Pouch, Beech Nut, etc. -- but Red Man tasted the best.

Probably, in coach, nicotine gum would be a better choice, but in a sleeper, chew and spit away.

YUCK.

*Note to self, "Don't drink what's in the cup when you enter the roomette."*

 

[sunchaser]

The solution to all this would be if Amtrak had an air tight smoking room where the smokers could puff on their cigarettes. If the room was completely air tight it would not annoy the rest of the passengers as all of the smoke would be tightly contained in there. When you are a smoker the more smoke the better the enjoyment!

Amtrak tried that; it didn't work.

Select Superliner coaches had an enclosed room on the lower level where the baggage areas are in some cars today. Despite the vent to the outside, too many smokers would go inside at one time and it would get too smoky for even them. So they'd find some way to prop the door open, venting smoke to the entire car. And of course no matter what you tried, a little always escapes every time someone goes in or out of the room.

Another big problem with those rooms is that the smoker's turned it into a pig sty. They'd bring a cup of soda or a can of soda in, use it as an ashtray instead of those provided, then leave the can/cup behind. The train would hit a bump and now you have a sticky mess with ashes mixed in. Cleaning costs were off the wall.

So between the door propping issues and the cleaning issues, the smokers killed their ability to smoke on the train.

The venting issue should have been solved with fans to the outside-one small fan sucking air into to the room, another, much larger fan venting outside.

It's really a shame that some smokers can be that sloppy. Maybe because they figure someone else is cleaning it up? I guess we are an exception-we smoke outside, empty & clean ashtrays regularly, avoid smoking or move away around non-smokers. When we took the train, I saved an empty plastic bottle with the lid, put a bit of water in it & used it for a butt collector at smoke stops. Works like a charm. There's really no reason to be a pig.

 

[dlagrua]

The solution to all this would be if Amtrak had an air tight smoking room where the smokers could puff on their cigarettes. If the room was completely air tight it would not annoy the rest of the passengers as all of the smoke would be tightly contained in there. When you are a smoker the more smoke the better the enjoyment!

Everyone you open the door to that "air-tight" compartment the smoke pours out into the rest of the car. Amtrak tried those smoking compartments and it was a disaster.

BTW, the sealed smoking rooms still exist on the AutoTrain on the lower level of the lounge car. Last time we were on it in June 2009, it was lightly used but the smokers tended to leave garbage behind. Soime smoke did seep out when the door was opened. I always wondered why smoking was banned on all routes but allowed on the AutoTrain. Now if we go back to the 1930s 40's 50's and 60's smoking was allowed everywhere in the lounge car and I believe in the dining cars too. Must have been a very unhealthy environment back then.

 

[AlanB]

The solution to all this would be if Amtrak had an air tight smoking room where the smokers could puff on their cigarettes. If the room was completely air tight it would not annoy the rest of the passengers as all of the smoke would be tightly contained in there. When you are a smoker the more smoke the better the enjoyment!

Amtrak tried that; it didn't work.

Select Superliner coaches had an enclosed room on the lower level where the baggage areas are in some cars today. Despite the vent to the outside, too many smokers would go inside at one time and it would get too smoky for even them. So they'd find some way to prop the door open, venting smoke to the entire car. And of course no matter what you tried, a little always escapes every time someone goes in or out of the room.

Another big problem with those rooms is that the smoker's turned it into a pig sty. They'd bring a cup of soda or a can of soda in, use it as an ashtray instead of those provided, then leave the can/cup behind. The train would hit a bump and now you have a sticky mess with ashes mixed in. Cleaning costs were off the wall.

So between the door propping issues and the cleaning issues, the smokers killed their ability to smoke on the train.

The venting issue should have been solved with fans to the outside-one small fan sucking air into to the room, another, much larger fan venting outside.

It's really a shame that some smokers can be that sloppy. Maybe because they figure someone else is cleaning it up? I guess we are an exception-we smoke outside, empty & clean ashtrays regularly, avoid smoking or move away around non-smokers. When we took the train, I saved an empty plastic bottle with the lid, put a bit of water in it & used it for a butt collector at smoke stops. Works like a charm. There's really no reason to be a pig.

I'm quite sure that they had a fan venting, not sure about one pulling in outside air. It is possible that the fans were too small, I can't really say and I never ventured into one of the rooms.

 

[AlanB]

The solution to all this would be if Amtrak had an air tight smoking room where the smokers could puff on their cigarettes. If the room was completely air tight it would not annoy the rest of the passengers as all of the smoke would be tightly contained in there. When you are a smoker the more smoke the better the enjoyment!

Everyone you open the door to that "air-tight" compartment the smoke pours out into the rest of the car. Amtrak tried those smoking compartments and it was a disaster.

BTW, the sealed smoking rooms still exist on the AutoTrain on the lower level of the lounge car. Last time we were on it in June 2009, it was lightly used but the smokers tended to leave garbage behind. Soime smoke did seep out when the door was opened. I always wondered why smoking was banned on all routes but allowed on the AutoTrain. Now if we go back to the 1930s 40's 50's and 60's smoking was allowed everywhere in the lounge car and I believe in the dining cars too. Must have been a very unhealthy environment back then.

I'm sure that if Amtrak could, they'd probably dump the box on the AT also. However, with no scheduled stops, there is no way to give anyone a chance to smoke during the entire journey, so they keep the boxes on the AT and try their best to get people not to be slobs.

 

[TVRM610]

The solution to all this would be if Amtrak had an air tight smoking room where the smokers could puff on their cigarettes. If the room was completely air tight it would not annoy the rest of the passengers as all of the smoke would be tightly contained in there. When you are a smoker the more smoke the better the enjoyment!

Everyone you open the door to that "air-tight" compartment the smoke pours out into the rest of the car. Amtrak tried those smoking compartments and it was a disaster.

BTW, the sealed smoking rooms still exist on the AutoTrain on the lower level of the lounge car. Last time we were on it in June 2009, it was lightly used but the smokers tended to leave garbage behind. Soime smoke did seep out when the door was opened. I always wondered why smoking was banned on all routes but allowed on the AutoTrain. Now if we go back to the 1930s 40's 50's and 60's smoking was allowed everywhere in the lounge car and I believe in the dining cars too. Must have been a very unhealthy environment back then.

Actually this was still the case in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's. The lounge cars used to be FULL of smoke. It's funny how that never bothered me then. There also used to be "smoking" and "non-smoking" coaches, again at least until the late 80's.

 

[oldtimer]

The solution to all this would be if Amtrak had an air tight smoking room where the smokers could puff on their cigarettes. If the room was completely air tight it would not annoy the rest of the passengers as all of the smoke would be tightly contained in there. When you are a smoker the more smoke the better the enjoyment!

Amtrak tried that; it didn't work.

Select Superliner coaches had an enclosed room on the lower level where the baggage areas are in some cars today. Despite the vent to the outside, too many smokers would go inside at one time and it would get too smoky for even them. So they'd find some way to prop the door open, venting smoke to the entire car. And of course no matter what you tried, a little always escapes every time someone goes in or out of the room.

Another big problem with those rooms is that the smoker's turned it into a pig sty. They'd bring a cup of soda or a can of soda in, use it as an ashtray instead of those provided, then leave the can/cup behind. The train would hit a bump and now you have a sticky mess with ashes mixed in. Cleaning costs were off the wall.

So between the door propping issues and the cleaning issues, the smokers killed their ability to smoke on the train.

The venting issue should have been solved with fans to the outside-one small fan sucking air into to the room, another, much larger fan venting outside.

It's really a shame that some smokers can be that sloppy. Maybe because they figure someone else is cleaning it up? I guess we are an exception-we smoke outside, empty & clean ashtrays regularly, avoid smoking or move away around non-smokers. When we took the train, I saved an empty plastic bottle with the lid, put a bit of water in it & used it for a butt collector at smoke stops. Works like a charm. There's really no reason to be a pig.

I'm quite sure that they had a fan venting, not sure about one pulling in outside air. It is possible that the fans were too small, I can't really say and I never ventured into one of the rooms.

I was involved in the first Superliner smoker coach conversion. It was done as an experiment in Chicago and it was well thought out and engineered before the start. First of all the Superliner ventilation system provides for a slight positive air pressure (if you pay attention as the vestibule doors are closed you can hear the air rush in the last few inches of door closing) so it was deemed that only an exhaust fan would be needed for the lower level so a high volume fan was connected to the return air duct work for the lower level and additional exhaust vents were added to the smoking section. All fabric and any other material that was considered smoke permeable was removed and replaced. the engineering theory was that the smoking compartment was at a lower internal air pressure than the rest of the car thus when the door was opened the smoke would not escape. This theory was great until the vestibule doors were opened and the positive pressure disappeared. This was also the time that the occupants of the smoke chamber also made a break for outside air. This problem was exacerbated by the train crews using this car for their short distance passengers, therefore the vestibule door was opened every stop Another problem that was an oversight of the engineers was that the passengers that returned to their seats had all of their clothes stinking of smoke. These smokers, if the were coach passengers, tended to congregate in this car, hence it stank!

Alan B II

:blink: :blink: :blink:

 

[AlanB]

Thanks for that interesting and detailed description of how things were setup. I learned quite a bit from your post. Many Thanks!

In fact, I'll go take you off the Pizza Ban for that. :lol:

 

[Green Maned Lion]

One problem would be getting from that air-tight room to the rest of the train; the other might be they'd use all the air in their air-tight smoking area; and that might be bad...

That is debatable.

Ever chew gum? Have braces as a kid? Cough?

I generally don't like smokers as a group. I've met a few that are ok. Sunchaser seems to be one of them. Those few are considerate of the fact that while you might happen to enjoy your habit or need your habbit, the rest of the world doesn't enjoy it at all, and try to avoid annoying us with their choice.

The rest of them seem to not give a flying [poop] about the fact that we don't like it. Some, like you, are even downright hostile about that fact that we have a problem with breathing in your smoke. You want to poison your lungs with smoke, dude? Go right ahead. I won't stop you. You should have the right to kill yourself, be it with cyanide, a knife, a bullet, or a cigarette.

But you know what? I don't like the way you smell when you smoke in closed quarters. I don't like the smell of your cigarette, either. You probably wouldn't like it if we were in a small enclosed room, and after eating, say, beans, I let forth a force-ten pants buster that stank up the place to high heaven. Would you? Didn't think so. And that isn't particularly damaging to your health, it just smells bad. And by the way, if I needed to do something of that nature, I'd probably take a trip to the bathroom.

But smoking? Lordy lord, that's different. You should be able to do that where ever you please.

Generally, I'm a laid back person. Live and let live. I'm a straight, monogamous person with some pretty solid Judeo-christian moral beliefs, which I generally hold myself accountable to. If people want, behind closed doors, to engage in breaking each of those beliefs in turn, so long as all members are capable of deciding to participate of their own free will, its there business. Group sex? Gay sex? Crack? Cocaine? BDSM? Drink until you passout/vomit? Go right ahead. Just don't involve me in it. Consenting adults can go around privately making their decisions, stupid as they might be. I believe strongly in personal freedom.

But dear god, don't involve me in it. Don't drink and drive on a road I'm on. Don't try to push your crack/cocaine on anyone I know that doesn't use it and doesn't care to. Don't pressure me or someone I know who isn't interested into various moral depravities that please you. And don't breathe cigarette smoke at me. Or smoke in places that a reasonable person must go through in order to navigate reasonably.

Smoke all you want- or take place in any number of other things listed or not listed. All I ask is I don't suffer from the consequences of your decisions.

 

[oldtimer]

Thanks for that interesting and detailed description of how things were setup. I learned quite a bit from your post. Many Thanks!
In fact, I'll go take you off the Pizza Ban for that. :lol:

Even after what I just posted here. New Food in Lounge Car

I guess that I'll be banned for life, especially after I tell you from hundreds of trip to St. Louis that there is no good pizza place in St Louis!

Alan B II (maybe I should be Alan B. SR as I retired with 37 years RR service)

:huh: :huh: :huh:

 

[GG-1]

The rest of them seem to not give a flying [poop] about the fact that we don't like it.

What a revolting sight/thought, Poop flying :lol: :lol: Do you think the TSA would inspect flying poop.

 

[AlanB]

I guess that I'll be banned for life, especially after I tell you from hundreds of trip to St. Louis that there is no good pizza place in St Louis!

We'll just have to have someone stop at Giordanno's on the way down to St. Louis and then find some place to reheat. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually, in all seriousness, I'm not too worried about Pizza in St. Louis. We really only have to worry about food on Friday, and I already know where we'll do lunch. Saturday and Sunday will see us eating on the train.

Alan B II (maybe I should be Alan B. SR as I retired with 37 years RR service)
:huh: :huh: :huh:

While it might cause a bit of confusion with people; you do actually have the ability to change your display name to anything you like. So you could certainly change it to Alan B. Sr. should you wish to do so.

 

[DET63]

I guess that I'll be banned for life, especially after I tell you from hundreds of trip to St. Louis that there is no good pizza place in St Louis!

We'll just have to have someone stop at Giordanno's on the way down to St. Louis and then find some place to reheat. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually, in all seriousness, I'm not too worried about Pizza in St. Louis. We really only have to worry about food on Friday, and I already know where we'll do lunch. Saturday and Sunday will see us eating on the train.

Alan B II (maybe I should be Alan B. SR as I retired with 37 years RR service)
:huh: :huh: :huh:

While it might cause a bit of confusion with people; you do actually have the ability to change your display name to anything you like. So you could certainly change it to Alan B. Sr. should you wish to do so.

Of course, then everyone will think oldtimer2 is AlanB's dad.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Until such time as all antismoking crusaders cease belching untold millions of tons of carcinogens and greenhouse gases into MY air from their motor vehicles, they remain the most crass of hypocrites. Easy for the tyrannical majority to single out the minority while denying or attempting to justify their own, far more massive, willful contribution to the truly major causes of air pollution, disease, and global warming.

 

[Tony]

... , but now has those phoney cigarettes that are just a mist of air.

Here's the Amtrak statement on the matter:

ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES PROHIBITED... , A HEATING ELEMENT VAPORIZES THE NICOTINE CONTAINING PROPYLENE GLYCOL SOLUTION, AND THE VAPOR IS INHALED INTO THE LUNGS. WHEN THEY ARE PUFFED, A VAPOR IS EMITTED INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. THE VAPOR EMITTED CAN BE VISUALLY SIMILAR TO CIGARETTE SMOKE. THERE IS ALSO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE EXHALED AEROSOL FROM AN E-CIGARETTE COULD CONTAIN NICOTINE, PROPYLENE GLYCOL OR OTHER VOLATILE MATERIALS.

...

I guess it isn't just a mist of clean air, or a puff of pure water, that is being exhausted out of those things.

 

[MattW]

GML, much as you can irritate even me, you're spot on! The only problem is that people aren't content to not involve other people. If it were up to me, I'd ban tobacco products from the United States (the world if I could get away with it).

As for spewing toxins into the air, blame the government and big-oil. I'd happily drive an electric or nuclear-electric vehicle if they had them (Google Ford Atom), but I can't, and Atlanta does not have workable transit thanks to our incompetent government. Plus, don't smokers spew more toxins than non-smokers who drive? Last I checked, there was no big correlation between smoking and using transit (if it exists) so in addition to their vehicles (which I doubt are all 60mpg hybrids) they're putting pollutants directly into the air directly from the paper in their mouth. I thought about doing a science project in High School which would compare pollution levels from cigarettes to coal, gasoline, natural gas etc., but couldn't figure out how to truly make it work.

 

[sunchaser]

GML, much as you can irritate even me, you're spot on! The only problem is that people aren't content to not involve other people. If it were up to me, I'd ban tobacco products from the United States (the world if I could get away with it).As for spewing toxins into the air, blame the government and big-oil. I'd happily drive an electric or nuclear-electric vehicle if they had them (Google Ford Atom), but I can't, and Atlanta does not have workable transit thanks to our incompetent government. Plus, don't smokers spew more toxins than non-smokers who drive? Last I checked, there was no big correlation between smoking and using transit (if it exists) so in addition to their vehicles (which I doubt are all 60mpg hybrids) they're putting pollutants directly into the air directly from the paper in their mouth. I thought about doing a science project in High School which would compare pollution levels from cigarettes to coal, gasoline, natural gas etc., but couldn't figure out how to truly make it work.

Interesting comparison-cars vs smoking. I would think that even if you could measure the amount of pollution from cigarettes vs car emissions, the cigarette amounts would be significantly smaller. I also think it depends on what brand you smoke. There are brands that only contain tobacco (which are the ones we smoke), and others that have tons of additives. I know we are an exception to the rule, but we drive very little, and when we were working, we used mass transit a majority of the time. I think you would have to smoke A LOT to really cause any major pollution, even as a group.

Just remember, the government subsidizes growing tobacco, then taxes the it very heavily. If cigarettes were outlawed, the government would lose a lot of tax revenue.

It's also been my observation that some nonsmokers go out of their way to hassle smokers, even to the point of going where smokers are, do the fake cough, then inform you that you should quit. I don't follow people around & tell them what they should do or not do.

 

[Karl]

Car vs Cigarette polution? Ha! How many house fires have been started by carelessly dicarded running cars vs lit cigarettes? Seriously are we making foreward progress even if baby steps? I think so. Do we have more and better rail and other transit options than we did in 1980? Enough said.

GML, cigarette smokers, christians, homosexuals, and train fanatics all have in common as groups some who are the in you face type, who you immediatly resent (unless you happen to share that interest), while the vast majority quietly go about their business with caution and respect for others. The second segement you will not likely know are in a group from a casual encounter.

Now, if Amtrak were to provide a true smoking area, how about an open end observation with the last 1/3 of the car open for smoking, and a vestibule (two doors) seperating from the non smoking area of the train. They could even get extra revenue from renting buffalo robes to smokers in the northern states during winter!

 

[sunchaser]

Now, if Amtrak were to provide a true smoking area, how about an open end observation with the last 1/3 of the car open for smoking, and a vestibule (two doors) seperating from the non smoking area of the train. They could even get extra revenue from renting buffalo robes to smokers in the northern states during winter!

I think PETA would not like smokers using Buffalo Robes.

I also think Amtrak would have a difficulty locating enough of them to go around.

I do like the open end observation car idea, though.

I think the only way it could work would be by putting it after all the coaches.

I don't see anything like that in the works, so it's basically a pipe dream for now.......

 

[lthanlon]

Could smokers use a nicotine patch or smokeless tobacco for a trip that didn't allow enough stops to smoke? I do see a couple of vendors in Union Station and Ogilvie Center proudly advertising they have fresh Copenhagen.