Venture cars can no longer be used for boarding/deboarding

[thully]

From @loucapwell on Twitter:

I’ve heard there have been some issues with the new Venture cars being used on Midwest state corridors, though this seems like a particularly big one. Does anyone know more about this? For the trains currently using Venture cars, are they really going to have everyone board through the non-Venture cars (I believe this may be just the cafe/BC car with some current consists). That sounds like it would be crazy in Chicago, though less so at smaller stops - in which case I wonder if they bring back some old cars. I was looking forward to taking 350 or 355 at some point in the future to try these out - hoping they can keep them in service…

 

[zephyr17]

That's nuts. Wonder what the problem is. Siemens sure seems to have more than its share of teething problems with just about everything.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Wow, you can’t make this stuff up, really you can’t!

 

[jis]

That's nuts. Wonder what the problem is. Siemens sure seems to have more than its share of teething problems with just about everything.

We do say that about every new vendor. Don't we?

 

[zephyr17]

Well, not being able to board a car seems like a major fail...

 

[Steve4031]

I read on train orders that the hand rails were pulling loose and that the steps were not working correctly.

 

[jis]

I read on train orders that the hand rails were pulling loose and that the steps were not working correctly.

That is one thing that is entirely absent from the Brightline cars! Interesting!

But those restroom doors seem to work just fine in the Birghtline cars. OTOH, they are maintained by Siemens not the the much vaunted Chicago shop!

 

[Cal]

That is one thing that is entirely absent from the Brightline cars! Interesting!

Well Brightline has no need (with passengers) for those as they have complete level boarding.

 

[amtrakpass]

It is a shame there seems to be some pretty basic quality problems with these cars. That being said I think the cars delivered so far are individual cars instead of solid train sets? So if that is the case instead of running them 4 or 5 a train with one amfleet as they have been doing, for now you could spread them out to more revenue trains and run 2 or 3 on each with 2 or 3 amfleets in their place and not have a whole lot of service impact, all with the same number of cars needed of each type. As long I understand correctly the bulletin order allows passenger seating, just not boarding or detraining

 

[crescent-zephyr]

It’s a shame there isn’t a reputable passenger rail car manufacturer in the USA. If only Colorado Rail car could have held on a few more years...

 

[caravanman]

Is there not some safety issue if folk can't exit the cars in an emergency? I don't think having 4 or 5 cars full of seated passengers, and only one available exit door if a fire breaks out sounds sensible?

 

[joelkfla]

Is there not some safety issue if folk can't exit the cars in an emergency? I don't think having 4 or 5 cars full of seated passengers, and only one available exit door if a fire breaks out sounds sensible?

They may be used in case of an emergency.

 

[Steve4031]

It seems strange. The Siemens equipment is well regarded on other parts of the world. I wonder what cost cutting specifications were negotiatiated for the venture cars. Or was it just poor workmanship in Sacramento.

 

[Bob Dylan]

It seems strange. The Siemens equipment is well regarded on other parts of the world. I wonder what cost cutting specifications were negotiatiated for the venture cars. Or was it just poor workmanship in Sacramento.

Probably Both!

 

[jis]

It seems strange. The Siemens equipment is well regarded on other parts of the world. I wonder what cost cutting specifications were negotiatiated for the venture cars. Or was it just poor workmanship in Sacramento.

Yes. Of late it seems there is a definite negative factor involved in trying build things according to American specifications in the US.

 

[Amtrak25]

An Amtrak employee said on Trainorders a few weeks ago that on some St Louis trips, 3 of 4 cars have no working bathroom (they only have 1 per car). If they do work, the automatic doors may not shut all the way, leaving a 2" opening so outsiders can play peek-a-boo. Then there's the flimsy luggage racks. The vestibule grab irons is a new one. Sounds like cheap HO Athearn kits from the 1960's. Even CAF cars weren't this bad.

 

[west point]

Maybe the train makeup would be 1 venture then 1 AM-1 the another Venture AM-1 and so on.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I have to wonder, based on previous conversations here, whether there is sour grapes about the new cars and, not sabotage per se but an unwillingless to learn the maintenance of the new cars? Granted, I tend towards paranoia (but not conspiracy) in seeing the negative.

 

[WWW]

Why don't they take some of those Boeing MAX airplanes - strip the wings off install wheel trucks and voila you
have a carriage with the prescribed emergency and routine boarding and exit access !
Imagine a train car where you have to use the vestibule area of an adjoining car for access - - - dumb de dumb dumb !

 

[joelkfla]

An Amtrak employee said on Trainorders a few weeks ago that on some St Louis trips, 3 of 4 cars have no working bathroom (they only have 1 per car). If they do work, the automatic doors may not shut all the way, leaving a 2" opening so outsiders can play peek-a-boo. Then there's the flimsy luggage racks. The vestibule grab irons is a new one. Sounds like cheap HO Athearn kits from the 1960's. Even CAF cars weren't this bad.

Brightline cars have electric sliding doors on the restrooms. I haven't heard of issues with those. But maybe it wouldn't be as widely reported if there were.

OTOH, the curved sliding doors on both VL II accessible bedrooms on my recent trip had issues. One just didn't work sometimes, and had to be manhandled open or closed. The other had a nasty habit of closing to within a couple of inches and then immediately reversing open.

 

[MisterUptempo]

Wondering whether some of this is a matter of "value engineering" at play. Yes, the cars were built by Siemens and Caltrans is the agency handling the project, but isn't Sumitomo still considered the contractor, with Siemens acting as sub-contractor?

The federal dollars allocated for the project never changed and Sumitomo/Nippon Sharyo won the bid by low-balling in the first place. Could it be that Sumitomo told Siemens, "Give us the Brightline cars, but keep the price at a specific dollar point and no higher"?

Have there been any reports of cost overruns? That happens fairly often, and if it hasn't on this project, can it be a matter of Siemens slapping the cars together with whatever parts would get them to the finish line while still staying on budget? Would it have helped if the "Buy American" requirements had been waived if high-quality parts weren't available stateside?

Does this have any implications for the Siemens ICT order?

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

They may be used in case of an emergency.
View attachment 28819

Thanks for enlarging the text of the original tweet! I had no way to magnify it on my computer.

 

[John819]

This illustrates the simple fact that no design survives the real world in its original form, but modifications are always needed. In making the cars compatible with both high and low platforms, a level of complexity was introduced that is absent in the Brightline cars.

 

[user 14106]

Hopefully Amtrak is taking notes so the bugs can be worked out prior to the ICTs.

 

[rs9]

Given this news and the host of other problems, this is probably not even worth asking, but: I took a Metra train in to Union Station yesterday and saw a number of Venture business class cars in the yard. Has there been any update as to when the business cars are coming into service?