Very Bad Amtrak Review at my3cents.com

[AmtrakCrescent20]

From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?

 

[Windy City LSA]

From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?

That's a good point. My best guess is the old saying...they don't make 'em like they used to. Pre-Amtrak is a long time ago, now. Speaking for myself (I'm 37) I don't think people of my generation and younger...and maybe even a bit older than I...have the same work ethic that say, my grandparents did back in the days of a depression and war. People back then were probably thankful to be working and if reflected in their work. They took pride in their work. Many of us in this generation are unfortnately spoiled and have the entire concept of customer service/hospitality all wrong. The jobs wouldn't be there if the customers weren't. Yet many employees in the service industry carry misguided beliefs. and interact with customers as if they're doing them a favor by helping them. Then there is the whole issue of people who are just born malcontents or people with entitlement issues...the ones that think they're doing their employer a favor by working for them. Long story short, individual work ethics aren't what they once were, and service will suffer as a result. Throw a little stress in the mix, and forget about it. That's what I think is the root of many problems, especially in the service and retail industries in general.

 

[MrFSS]

From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?

That's a good point. My best guess is the old saying...they don't make 'em like they used to. Pre-Amtrak is a long time ago, now. Speaking for myself (I'm 37) I don't think people of my generation and younger...and maybe even a bit older than I...have the same work ethic that say, my grandparents did back in the days of a depression and war. People back then were probably thankful to be working and if reflected in their work. They took pride in their work. Many of us in this generation are unfortunately spoiled and have the entire concept of customer service/hospitality all wrong. The jobs wouldn't be there if the customers weren't. Yet many employees in the service industry carry misguided beliefs. and interact with customers as if they're doing them a favor by helping them. Then there is the whole issue of people who are just born malcontents or people with entitlement issues...the ones that think they're doing their employer a favor by working for them. Long story short, individual work ethics aren't what they once were, and service will suffer as a result. Throw a little stress in the mix, and forget about it. That's what I think is the root of many problems, especially in the service and retail industries in general.

And that explains why many jobs are outsourced overseas and many from other countries want to come to the US to work because they know many Americans don't want to work. We will be in a heap of trouble in the not so distant future!

 

[Guest]

And that explains why many jobs are outsourced overseas and many from other countries want to come to the US to work because they know many Americans don't want to work. We will be in a heap of trouble in the not so distant future!

Having worked overseas for most of the last 17 years, I must say this: The US and its work ethic are not near as bad as the whiners like to say it is, and the other parts of the world are not as good as some people seem to think they are. The inabaility of people to "think outside the box" will drive you bonkers outside this country far more than in it. Jobs are going to India and China for one simple reason: LOW WAGES. We could deal with it when the places were Taiwan, the Philippines, etc. because they were smaller countries, and for Taiwan at least have now reached to point of prosperity that the drain is reversing, but to continue to send jobs overseas to places with four times our population is terminal stupidity.

We are not the only ones being stupid in this area, either. About a year or so ago, the company that was British Steel was bought by a company in India. This should have the managers of the era of the British Raj spinning in their graves.

George

 

[Everydaymatters]

From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?

That's a good point. My best guess is the old saying...they don't make 'em like they used to. Pre-Amtrak is a long time ago, now. Speaking for myself (I'm 37) I don't think people of my generation and younger...and maybe even a bit older than I...have the same work ethic that say, my grandparents did back in the days of a depression and war. People back then were probably thankful to be working and if reflected in their work. They took pride in their work. Many of us in this generation are unfortnately spoiled and have the entire concept of customer service/hospitality all wrong. The jobs wouldn't be there if the customers weren't. Yet many employees in the service industry carry misguided beliefs. and interact with customers as if they're doing them a favor by helping them. Then there is the whole issue of people who are just born malcontents or people with entitlement issues...the ones that think they're doing their employer a favor by working for them. Long story short, individual work ethics aren't what they once were, and service will suffer as a result. Throw a little stress in the mix, and forget about it. That's what I think is the root of many problems, especially in the service and retail industries in general.

Well said, Windy City. You have amazing insight. I'm retired, but when I was starting my career, your reputation was everything. You were only as good as your name. A handshake was a solid contract not to be broken because your reputation depended on it. Sadly, things have changed. Very sadly. However, there are still those like yourself whom we depend on to make the future right.

 

[AlanB]

From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?

That's a good point. My best guess is the old saying...they don't make 'em like they used to. Pre-Amtrak is a long time ago, now. Speaking for myself (I'm 37) I don't think people of my generation and younger...and maybe even a bit older than I...have the same work ethic that say, my grandparents did back in the days of a depression and war. People back then were probably thankful to be working and if reflected in their work. They took pride in their work. Many of us in this generation are unfortnately spoiled and have the entire concept of customer service/hospitality all wrong. The jobs wouldn't be there if the customers weren't. Yet many employees in the service industry carry misguided beliefs. and interact with customers as if they're doing them a favor by helping them. Then there is the whole issue of people who are just born malcontents or people with entitlement issues...the ones that think they're doing their employer a favor by working for them. Long story short, individual work ethics aren't what they once were, and service will suffer as a result. Throw a little stress in the mix, and forget about it. That's what I think is the root of many problems, especially in the service and retail industries in general.

First, I'm not so sure that the pre-Amtrak employees were always as good as people seem to assume. Time fades the bad things in one's memory.

Second, I can tell you that some of the poorest service that I've ever had was at the hands of employees whom Amtrak inherited from the freight RR's.

I think that a lot had to do with better oversight of the employees, back in the golden years. But oversight also costs money and it requires managers to be held accountable for the actions of their employees. I don't believe that happens at Amtrak. An bad employee may get disciplined or perhaps even fired, but the manager above him doesn't receive some of the pain either. In fact many managers are rewarded for reducing costs, but are not penalized for the poor performance of their employees. Now that is a double edged sword too, as some managers will then become majorly abusive to their employees in an attempt to get them to work, so that the manager can get his/her bonus.

But just like a manager can get rewarded for staying within their budget or coming in under, there needs to be some fall out for employees under said manager who consistently fail to meet the standards of the job. And I don't just mean on the front line employees that the passenger sees, this applies at all levels including cleaning staff, yard workers, and so on. The performance of everyone impacts the passenger in one way or another.

 

[AlanB]

Now for a few other random comments in no particular order.

Most positioning moves do indeed still carry the chef on board. It almost always costs more to fly him/her home, than to bring them back home on the car. And most companies also sell space on a positioning move, in an effort to cover the costs of moving the car, so they do include meal service. It's usually not as elaborate as the main excursion, but it is generally included. So there should be no reason for those passengers to need to eat in the Amtrak diner.

Second, there is the liability factor of allow pax from a private varnish car into the Amtrak train. In fact, Amtrak is currently partnering with GrandLuxe to haul GL cars behind regular Amtrak trains. And they specifically state that there will be no interaction between regular Amtrak pax and GL pax, even though in the case of the Silver trains, there is no impediment to prevent a passenger from walking between the two sections. The whole train will be single level. It's an insurance thing, and if Amtrak isn't going to allow it with their partner, I can't imagine that they would allow it with a private varnish that isn't a partner.

I for one wonder if the person who wrote about this incident, didn't see a tour group that was in coach wearing name tags and just confused that group with the people from the Private cars. And I know that if I was riding in a PV, I sure wouldn't want to wear a name tag. But again, I've never heard of passengers from a private car being allowed on an Amtrak car, since it is a liability issue. Amtrak is not covered against losses if they get hurt while inside the Amtrak car.

And then as other's have mentioned, why anyone would want to leave the lap of luxury for the semi-comfortable bench seating in an Amtrak dining car is beyond me.

Next, personally I'm actually a bit surprised that anyone was even allowed to remain in the station at all. In the past, that station was buttoned up tight as a drum. Back when the Pennsylvanian used to run, it was scheduled in at about 11:30 PM IIRC.

On days that it was extremly late and it arrived after the station was closed, passengers were escorted from the platform by security and usually between police baracades (those metal railing types) right out the closest door, which was also guarded so that no one from the outside could enter. They weren't even given a chance to visit the bathroom, use a phone, or anything. It was off the train, and out the door.

Not to mention that the A/C is controlled by the building above the station, and is shut down at night and on weekends. In fact before it's remodeling, the Metropolitan lounge used to be murder on the weekends. Amtrak installed it's own A/C units when they remodeled the lounge.

Finally, regarding hotels, it would appear that Amtrak uses many different hotels. While I'm sure that cost is an issue for Amtrak, I don't believe that it is the only issue. I think that space is also an issue. Passengers can end up where ever there is space, which in Chicago is often an issue.

But I've seen stories of passengers at the Best Western downtown, a few other hotels, and in another topic here on this board Clearfork reported being sent to a very nice hotel over by the Navy Pier when he and his family mis-connected on the EB this week.

Whether the hotel in Homewood is good or bad, I can't debate since I don't know the hotel. But I don't believe that it is the hotel of first choice either. It can be very tough trying to find 100 hotel rooms on a moments notice when a train mis-connects, especially in Chicago.

And while some hotels that get used by Amtrak crews may be a little less desirable, not all are. Many are in fact rather decent. I've stayed many times at a Doubletree hotel in Boston, which just happens to be where Amtrak puts up Acela FC attendants. I was quite surprised the first time I saw that, as I was checking in at the desk and didn't even notice the person standing next to me, until she said hi to me. I was quite surprised to see the FC attendant that I had just tipped 20 minutes ago standing next to me.

 

[oldtimer]

Let me make some more random comments,

Employee morale is extremely low more work with fewer employees IE SDS, # of coach attendents reduced, Equipment getting older with just cosmetic refurbishing, number of mechanics to repair cars has been cut in half, push for higher car utilization means shorter time to repair cars, and last but not least is management's use of threats and intimidation as their first (and somethimes only) management style. Amtrak's attitude toward contracts is if you do not like the pittance we offer we will contract out your work. The labor talks have been going on since 1999, with a COLA of less then 1% a year while the actual cost of living is 3+%, managers getting 3% + bonuses and most recently and additioal 10% raise for many managers. Managers are very reactive and punitive. Yes the unions do get a lot of employees discipline overturned because the first level investigation was very poorly done and a very prejudicial decision was made. Do the first level managers involved pay any price, NO they keep on getting their raises and bonuses for being under budget.

Now that I have ranted flame away, just remember I had 35 years with AMT, including 11 years on board service.

 

[jim55]

Sorry Alan B, from what I have seen, and read, many more places than this, Amtrak has problems with employees who deal with CUSTOMERS! Yes, Customers that pay part of the bills, but mostly, elect those that pay the subsidized bill. While in college, I loaded trucks for Consolidated Feightways in Ohio, had to join the teamsters, I watched these clowns have 5 or 6 or more beers for lunch, come back to the dock and throw a Box for Tampa into Truck bound for Seattle and laugh, like they were "teaching the Co. a lesson" I have not seen this attitude untill my expossure to Amtrak. I don't know who has Union backing in Amtrak, it just seems too many employees think they are untouchable. BUT, on the other hand why work hard for a CEO who might **** the Co then bail with a golden Parachute? Jim

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak's attitude toward contracts is if you do not like the pittance we offer we will contract out your work. The labor talks have been going on since 1999, with a COLA of less then 1% a year while the actual cost of living is 3+%, managers getting 3% + bonuses and most recently and additioal 10% raise for many managers. Managers are very reactive and punitive.

Just as an FYI, that attitude is changing at least a bit at Amtrak. Just last week Amtrak and the BLET announced a tentative agreement and the details should be sent to the union members within the next week or two, followed by a vote.

So it would seem that Alex Kummant is living up to his promise to get the contracts done. Finally and at long last.

 

[AlanB]

Sorry Alan B, from what I have seen, and read, many more places than this, Amtrak has problems with employees who deal with CUSTOMERS!

Forgive me, but where did I say that Amtrak didn't have problems with employees who deal with pasengers? :unsure:

Although I can tell you that had this recent trip that I just returned home from yesterday, you would have been hard pressed to convince me that they did have bad employees.

While in college, I loaded trucks for Consolidated Feightways in Ohio, had to join the teamsters, I watched these clowns have 5 or 6 or more beers for lunch, come back to the dock and throw a Box for Tampa into Truck bound for Seattle and laugh, like they were "teaching the Co. a lesson" I have not seen this attitude untill my expossure to Amtrak. I don't know who has Union backing in Amtrak, it just seems too many employees think they are untouchable.

Trust me, you can find that same attitude in many other places beyond Amtrak and Consolidated.

BUT, on the other hand why work hard for a CEO who might **** the Co then bail with a golden Parachute? Jim

One thing that I can assure you of, is that no CEO of Amtrak has ever walked away with a golden parachute. Amtrak doesn't have one to offer, since there is no money and stock to award to the CEO. Most CEO's get stock in the company that they run, all 100% of the Amtrak stock that counts is held in trust for Congress and the American people by the DOT. What common stock there is, is largely held by the freight RR's and is basically worthless paper. It has never paid a dividend and never will, and it carries no voting rights.

In fact most CEO's, including Gunn and the current one Alex Kummant, could probably make far more money else where just on base salary, before one starts to add in the perks that most CEO's can get, but Amtrak can't provide.

 

[frj1983]

Sorry Alan B, from what I have seen, and read, many more places than this, Amtrak has problems with employees who deal with CUSTOMERS!

Forgive me, but where did I say that Amtrak didn't have problems with employees who deal with pasengers? :unsure:

Although I can tell you that had this recent trip that I just returned home from yesterday, you would have been hard pressed to convince me that they did have bad employees.

While in college, I loaded trucks for Consolidated Feightways in Ohio, had to join the teamsters, I watched these clowns have 5 or 6 or more beers for lunch, come back to the dock and throw a Box for Tampa into Truck bound for Seattle and laugh, like they were "teaching the Co. a lesson" I have not seen this attitude untill my expossure to Amtrak. I don't know who has Union backing in Amtrak, it just seems too many employees think they are untouchable.

Trust me, you can find that same attitude in many other places beyond Amtrak and Consolidated.

BUT, on the other hand why work hard for a CEO who might **** the Co then bail with a golden Parachute? Jim

One thing that I can assure you of, is that no CEO of Amtrak has ever walked away with a golden parachute. Amtrak doesn't have one to offer, since there is no money and stock to award to the CEO. Most CEO's get stock in the company that they run, all 100% of the Amtrak stock that counts is held in trust for Congress and the American people by the DOT. What common stock there is, is largely held by the freight RR's and is basically worthless paper. It has never paid a dividend and never will, and it carries no voting rights.

In fact most CEO's, including Gunn and the current one Alex Kummant, could probably make far more money else where just on base salary, before one starts to add in the perks that most CEO's can get, but Amtrak can't provide.

Good points AlanB,

I often wonder why anyone would even want to be CEO of Amtrak, noting how often the Media misrepresents and lampoons it, as well as reporting the most negative things possible. Who could possibly want that job and all it's headaches? Either you're a glutton for punishment or you honestly think you can do something.

 

[MrFSS]

I often wonder why anyone would even want to be CEO of Amtrak, noting how often the Media misrepresents and lampoons it, as well as reporting the most negative things possible. Who could possibly want that job and all it's headaches? Either you're a glutton for punishment or you honestly think you can do something.

I wonder why anyone would want to be president of the US.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Power. Ego. Status. Everybody in your party kisses your ........

 

[MrFSS]

Power. Ego. Status. Everybody in your party kisses your ........

And, I guess if you can get four years completed you get a full pension for the rest of your life with medical, protection, and postage!

 

[frj1983]

I often wonder why anyone would even want to be CEO of Amtrak, noting how often the Media misrepresents and lampoons it, as well as reporting the most negative things possible. Who could possibly want that job and all it's headaches? Either you're a glutton for punishment or you honestly think you can do something.

I wonder why anyone would want to be president of the US.

Well,

I have actually asked my self and others that question as well!

 

[had8ley]

Sorry Alan B, from what I have seen, and read, many more places than this, Amtrak has problems with employees who deal with CUSTOMERS! Yes, Customers that pay part of the bills, but mostly, elect those that pay the subsidized bill. While in college, I loaded trucks for Consolidated Feightways in Ohio, had to join the teamsters, I watched these clowns have 5 or 6 or more beers for lunch, come back to the dock and throw a Box for Tampa into Truck bound for Seattle and laugh, like they were "teaching the Co. a lesson" I have not seen this attitude untill my expossure to Amtrak. I don't know who has Union backing in Amtrak, it just seems too many employees think they are untouchable. BUT, on the other hand why work hard for a CEO who might **** the Co then bail with a golden Parachute? Jim

I couldn't put it down in writing any better. There used to be an accountability factor in pre-Amtrak days. Today, you are almost challenged to present your point and some OBS almost act like they would love to pass out a few fat lips. The flagrant disrespect for the pax passing through the diner in non-serving hours has got to stop. I know, there are some on this site who have never seen it. I'm glad you haven't but that does not mean that it is not happening. Yes, there were good old days and I'm glad I saw them and was able to travel many miles in Pullmans. I admit we will never have anything close to it (except for Gran Luxe or some other PV) but at least we could should expect civil treatment on each and every trip. I just don't know how many times I have ridden the same train and been subjected to the best of service. The next trip, it seems like someone instructed the crew to be rude to each and every passenger. Go figure~ is it a sign of the times or is this an Amtrak only issue since many of the OBS act like "You're a prisoner 'til we get there."

l

 

[TVRM610]

Well it looks like we were all wrong after all about the Private Varnish issue.

I just found a trip listed here: www.aaprco.com/Travel_Opportunities/Postings.html for a Private trip, onboard the Southwest Chief, that says

"One way we have kept the fare incredibly low is by foregoing the dinner time meal in the private cars … please adjourn to the Amtrak diner. "Dinner in the Diner" will be each individual's responsibility."

There is also a picture on the clubs website: www.pacificrailroadsociety.org of their very own transition Coach.

So my original thought on the whole car owners idea that I posted was completely off. In fact this lady could have been 100% right. There are private car passengers who do eat in the amtrak dining cars!

 

[printman2000]

I have also seen a private car trip advertised with the private car being put in front of the transition sleeper so that they could access the dining car. However, since she said the private cars were on the rear, that would not have applied here.

The site you listed below (www.pacificrailwaysociety.org) does not seem to work for me.

 

[TVRM610]

I have also seen a private car trip advertised with the private car being put in front of the transition sleeper so that they could access the dining car. However, since she said the private cars were on the rear, that would not have applied here.
The site you listed below (www.pacificrailwaysociety.org) does not seem to work for me.

Well perhaps that's because I can't tell the difference between a railway and a railroad! Sorry about that!

www.pacificrailroadsociety.org

 

[AmtrakWPK]

I think that link was supposed to be

http://www.pacificrailroadsociety.org/

It shows what I think is Coach-Dorm 39919, ex-Amtrak. That particular one has a photo at:

http://www.vistadome.com/trains/amtrak/sup...hdorm_39919.jpg

with the description: "Amtrak 39919 Superliner Coach Dorm in Albuquerque on the Southwest Chief in 1986. 3 narrow stripes."

-------------------------------------------------------------

Trainweb shows it at:

http://www.trainweb.org/vangab/hilev.htm

as:

COACH

------

ATSF# Amtrak# Amtrak#(HEP) Year built Notes/Status

545 9919 39919 1956 SOLD. Pacific Railroad Society.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Trainorders had a report from F40PHR231 in July 2002 that showed it to be an "Ex-Santa Fe hi-level" sitting at Beech Grove at that time, so presumably it was refurbed and then shipped off to Pac Rail Soc.

 

[jim55]

If what .....610 above says is true. then anyone who buys a first class ticket, is not really 1st class.......I had to edit everything I said here because I was just told Amtrak dropped the term "1st class". I have to check it out.

 

[Guest]

Ok, it is me again. The lady who wrote the original letter that got this whole thread going. Thanks for those of you who investigated and reported that I was correct about the private car thing. The entire letter is, in fact, correct. I did write this letter to amtrak upon arriving home. On Tuesday, it will be three weeks since I sent off the original letter. I also filled out the amtrak survey and posted my letter on another site...where it was seen and pasted here.

Many people have asked me if I received any response from amtrak. I did not. I did receive an e-mail inviting me to take some upgraded version of the Southwest Chief. It is called Grand Luxe Rail. Maybe it is the way to get truly first class service on Amtrak. I don't think I will be the one to find out.

Anyway, you all seem like very nice people. I was once an Amtrak enthusiast too. There is nothing as romantic as train travel. As of today, however, I wanted you to know Amtrak has completely ignored my complaint which reached them by e-mail, phone, and letter. I did cancel my Nov. Amtrak trip, and I honestly don't know what transportation I will use in the future. I am just very disappointed.

Take Care.

 

[Everydaymatters]

I don't think you should drop this. Keep writing. Write to everyone you can think of. Try your Congressman's office. What happened to you was horrendous.

Did you send the letter with a Return Receipt?

 

[Lucifer]

I just read all of the letters posted on that "my3cents.com" site in regard to Amtrak. And as usual with complaint letters, they tend to be rather "over exaggerated" in the details. However, I am not surprised at most of the points the lady makes in the letter pertaining to this thread. I will say this again as I have since my first days on this board as an Amtrak employee before I left to the freight sector.
Until Amtrak management is HELD FULLY ACCOUNTABLE for their actions, there will never be any improvements of major influence. Employee morale is pretty much unacceptable as has been in my tenure (at least in my crewbase but I have seen it elsewhere). There are many good employees out there on the trains and in the stations, but they too feel the pressure and negativity that trickles down from management. My file didn't have any complaint letters from passengers in it. I had an overall good employment experience at Amtrak. However, I could see the writing on the wall. It is not going to change anytime soon., Sure they are making progress in some areas, but management needs to be the primary focus. And there is nobody that is going to make me change my opinion no matter how they try. Amtrak's woes fall on its management ranks! So I have made my way to the freight sector, and the difference is surreal to me! And the first thing that stood out at the new freight railroad? The management performs business more in line of like they are supposed to!

And BTW it is necessary for me to mention this........ I realize I am attacking Amtrak management as a former "agreement covered" employee. But I haven't lost the management mindset I gained while employed as a manager at my previous employer before Amtrak. I have come across a few (the key word is "few") good management types at Amtrak! I want to be sure it is noted that there are good managers as well as good employees there. But change needs to start and continue improving from the top on down! But I can't stress enough, "let's start at the top of the ladder!!!!" I believe it when I see it!

OBS gone freight.......

PS

To those who are planning on future rail travel and first timers exploring the options of rail,

Don't let this posting make you not want to persue the idea or put a bad taste in your mouth. Get on and see for yourself whether rail travel is your "cup of tea." If it isn't what you expect, seek compensation and try again. After that, if you can't see rail travel fitting your future travel plans, at least you can depart by saying "been there, done it, and don't like it!" I routinely dealt with great passengers on my trips, and even several of those who concluded it's not for them.

I'm with you 100% except for the "over exaggerated" assessment as I never believed anything but the best about traveling by rail until my own surreal and cartoonesque travel nightmare. AMTRAK is being murdered slowly but surely by a lack of funding, under staffing, stubborn adherence to outdated policies and procedures, dwindling services, and the company's tolerance of staff members' personal agendas, prejudicial judgement calls, and inconsistent adherence to policies and procedures. There is a definite lack of a reasonable system of checks and balances when it comes to relating to passenger. My opinion is that AMTRAK's entire system of operating needs to be trashed and reworked from scratch if the company is to survive.