VIA announces new cars, amenity upgrades

[William W.]

I'm considering flying to Toronto next summer, taking the Canadian to Vancouver, and then taking the Empire Builder back. Is the Canadian still worthwhile? My backup is to take the SWC, and then the CS to Seattle. I'd really like to take the Canadian, but I know that the cost may be hard to swallow. What do you guys think?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

YOLO.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm considering flying to Toronto next summer, taking the Canadian to Vancouver, and then taking the Empire Builder back. Is the Canadian still worthwhile? My backup is to take the SWC, and then the CS to Seattle. I'd really like to take the Canadian, but I know that the cost may be hard to swallow. What do you guys think?

Worthwhile compared to the Empire Builder? Yep. Worthwhile compared to the SWC/CS? Yep. The Canadian is moving in directions I'm not happy with (limited schedule and generic hotel refurbishing) but it's still among the best rail services available in North America at any price. Even if you were comparing the Canadian with Eurostar or TGV or ICE or JRX I'd still say it's worth it. The old time trains are vanishing. There's no Orient Express anymore. Better to see the old trains now while they're still around. That's my advice anyway.

 

[rrdude]

Jump, dont think about it, JUST JUMP IF U HAVE THE CHANCE!

 

[jis]

The Canadian is trying to slowly become more like the Indian Pacific or the Ghan in Australia. This is a completely different direction when compared to Amtrak's LD network, so comparing the two is a bit of apples and oranges I am afraid.

As far as Amtrak goes, I as a taxpayer would be stridently opposed to it trying to run a luxury service like the Ghan or the Indian Pacific. Indeed in Australia those are not run by a government subsidized outfit either. Those operations were sold off to the Great Southern Rail. AFAICT, the only subsidy it gets from the government is for funding discounts for seniors (pensioners) and certain other categories of travelers amounting to some $30 million for a period of four years.

For providing such service in the US, the Iowa Pacific model may be the right way to go, if it can be made to work.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm considering flying to Toronto next summer, taking the Canadian to Vancouver, and then taking the Empire Builder back. Is the Canadian still worthwhile? My backup is to take the SWC, and then the CS to Seattle. I'd really like to take the Canadian, but I know that the cost may be hard to swallow. What do you guys think?

As was said, catch it while you still can!
Remember that summer comes late in the Great White North so the Express and 50% Fares on VIA are excellent deals, they usually are on offer from Nov to the Christmas Holidays, then Jan to May, I've even seen a few in June!

Keep up @ via.ca and if you set up an account they'll even email you like AGR does! Worth doing if you're flexible in your travel plans, the hundreds of dollars in savings will pretty much pay for some of the rest of your travel expenses!

 

[lyke99]

I just returned from a trip that included both the Empire Builder and The Canadian. It is tough to compare them.

The Empire Builder and Amtrak are providing a service. They go daily and a number of people ride it regularly. You meet people in the dining car who say things like "I take this to and from (wherever)." or "I don't like to drive/fly so I use the train to visit (family members/friends)"

With "The Canadian" VIA Rail provides a service to some people, but in the sleeping cars you mainly find people who are making the trip just this once or maybe they do it every few years. My wife and I met a lot of people from a lot of places, but not many Canadians and of the Canadians, most were taking an "I've always wanted to do this" trip. Those of us who considered ourselves railfans all said our trips were prompted by Fred Frailey's January 2014 article in Trains Magazine.

So here we were, Minnesotans at "train camp" on The Canadian with people from Australia, England, Northern Ireland, British Columbia, Ontario, Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, and California. We had a great time and nearly free reign in the Park Car for the entire Vancouver to Toronto journey. Those of us who'd traveled Amtrak before were impressed by the amount of public space there was for sleeping car passengers. On Amtrak, my wife and I are generally in our room if it is not meal time. On The Canadian we spent very little time in our rooms (we did two Cabins for 1 [roomettes] instead of a Cabin for 2) during the days.

The Australian in this band of "train campers" had traveled extensively on Amtrak and said, "Amtrak is like the hotel you stay in while traveling on business. It's good, few complaints, if any, and you'll stay there again the next time you're in town for business. The Canadian is like the resort you visit to celebrate an anniversary."

 

[jebr]

As an American taxpayer, I'm glad that we're subsidizing a service instead of a vacation. If the Canadian is mainly a land cruise, I can see why some people are trying to cut VIA (and why the cuts I hear for frequency worry me.) Amtrak often presents itself as a transportation option, and it's worthy of support as a transportation option. However, if Amtrak were to try and emulate VIA (reducing frequency and catering to vacationers instead of as a basic transportation option) I would be much more skeptical of subsidizing them from a governmental perspective.

I would like to see both Amtrak and VIA stay around, but as an American taxpayer, I'm glad I'm subsidizing Amtrak and not VIA.

 

[TVRM610]

I've only ridden the Canadian once and have ridden Amtrak... well alot more but my experience was similar to lyke99 although I did meet a few Canadians who really were using VIA for transportation. I agree on the Amtrak hotel vs. VIA Resort comparison.. pretty spot on.

 

[the_traveler]

When I rode in the rear of the Park Car several of the other passengers were glued to their iPhones and iPads and didn't seem to notice or care about anything going on outside. Even in the dome some folks would just be sitting up there reading books or drawing or what have you. Seemed they could have been almost anywhere and never even noticed the difference.

A few years ago, I rode the Adirondack when it had Ocean View on. 2 or 3 of the tables had groups sitting there - playing cards! I don't even think they noticed they were in a DOME!

 

[railiner]

Years ago, when the Rio Grande Zephyr ran, if the chair car attendant noticed any passengers either reading or sleeping in the packed dome seats, he would politely ask them to return to their regular seat, so that the queue of passenger's waiting to enjoy the scenery got a chance to sit in the dome seats. This was usually on the sold out train on weekends between Denver and Glenwood Springs....

 

[neroden]

*sigh*.

I consider anything which runs less than daily to be good only for cruise service. I'll make an exception for the Queen Mary II.

I just planned out a vacation where I had very flexible dates and a lot of time. I *could not make* the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited route work; it wasn't the extra day in transit, it was that *plus* the three-a-week schedule. Not long before that, I attempted to plan out a trip to Indianapolis to a convention; again, I could not make the Cardinal work, partly because of the speed (which also made the Hoosier State a problem), but mostly because of the three-a-week schedule. The Canadian? Again, impractical even for a vacation trip: four nights and a full day, and the two-a-week schedule makes it unusable.

Even with the Empire Builder's current delays, the Canadian is sloooow. It appears to be faster to take VIA from Toronto to Windsor, stay overnight in Detroit, and take Amtrak from there to Vancouver. Which is absurd, but it would probably be tolerable if the train was daily, which it isn't. And of course the Amtrak route is cheaper!

I like my amenities, but I'm not ridiculous. I always have some schedule flexibility and can afford to take a slower and more scenic route, but I don't want to pay extra for hotels just in order to get the right day of the week for the train schedule. Amtrak still has a lot of the market for people like me. VIA is driving my market off the Canadian (and the Ocean), because of the lack of daily service. There are no amenities which can compensate for the restricted list of departure dates.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Years ago, when the Rio Grande Zephyr ran, if the chair car attendant noticed any passengers either reading or sleeping in the packed dome seats, he would politely ask them to return to their regular seat, so that the queue of passenger's waiting to enjoy the scenery got a chance to sit in the dome seats. This was usually on the sold out train on weekends between Denver and Glenwood Springs....

Still that way on the Zephyr between Denver and Grand Junction and between Reno and Sacramento! Some Conductors make announcements about sharing the SSL when in the Mountains!
The PPC has the sane problem with thecSwivel Chairs on the Starlight Route when the Sleepers are Full!

Sharing is Caring! Its a good motto to live by!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Sharing is caring. Weren't we discussing how apathy is a major problem in this country?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Reno-Sacramento?! That explains the HUGE fares!

 

[sldispatcher]

I will be in the minority on this one, but that doesn't necessarily make me wrong.

I really like the changes VIA is making and it will make for a much broader appeal to the general public. In addition, it will go right at the high end fare paying people that can make a difference on the bottom line. You want broader support of rail transport, then put people on the train. 50's style accommodations and lack of tasteful modern amenities is not going to do it.

I'm in a profession/age group/etc. that tends to be regarded as having expendable income and often will do it on higher end items. That's a bit of a stereotype, but it is what it is. Vacations are often where that money goes.

I believe, with the right lure of accommodation, that higher discretionary income can be brought to use in rail. In turn, a very positive exposure will lead to broader support.

This change will very likely lead to new life being pumped into the Canadian. What if the demand was so great for the PRESTIGE service that it prompted a return to 3 days a week in winter? A new car order? If there is money in it, the rest will follow.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Foolish fooling follying foolishly.

 

[sldispatcher]

Name some service industries where keeping things exactly the same way for 50 years from the public face of their operations has resulted in that company's uncontainable success.

Airlines didn't do it.

Hotels didn't do it.

Stores haven't done it.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Some hotels have. Not always in a bad way.

 

[sldispatcher]

I just worry that if the only way any of us think that long distance travel by rail can be done should be circa 1950's, we will just be tightening the screws of doom.

I would never presume or think that rail transportation should be a break even proposition. Only the fools think that. What I want is more service not less. Same as you and the rest of the folks on here.

I just don't want more of the same. I want better.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The only way to change it whole cloth is a thorough overhaul of our political system. If you want to make a difference focus on a single useful project. Push with all your might. Maybe before you die it will become so.

 

[jis]

And yet the real appeal of the Canadian appears to be that it gives a wonderful 1950's experience over even one additional day over what one got in the 50's!

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Amfleeter]

http://www.julien.ca/railsolutions/en/

Here's the company upgrading the 4 Park cars - they will only be in service during the Summer peak, and probably not on every run. 8 Chateau cars as said previously will also be converted. There's some 360 views of the new Park there.

By the way, this is the same company that designed the Talgo bistro car, the service counter for the Superliner diners, along with the galley for Superliners and some of the luggage racks in Superliners and Amfleets. They also designed the Viewliner inspection car's interior and the interior for the ACES service/First Class car. They've got credentials in railroad design, that's for sure. Not exactly as great as whoever designed the Acela interior, but still pretty good.

 

[Lawdude]

Another article has some photos...

Link: http://www.jaunted.com/story/2014/6/1/20955/56979/travel/VIA+Rail+Canada+Unveils+New+'Prestige+Class'+Train+Cabins

Although the Canadian is a very nice train the every few days schedule in winter is rather unfortunate and the summer rates were already sky high. I can only imagine what these tickets will be going for in 2015 when they eventually start rolling out the new hardware. One thing that should be included in the ticket price is a memo to Canada's clueless customs officers explaining that these train passengers are not any sort of threat and are in fact dumping thousands of dollars into their trips.

I've read a number of threads here about the prices charged by VIA. VIA is, as best I can tell, charging closer to cost for their services. Sleeping car services on Amtrak are enormously subsidized. You can see that from the fact that every study on Amtrak subsidies shows the western 2 day long distance routes have the largest subsidies, from the fact that food service (with the most expensive dining car meals comped to sleeping car passengers) has huge losses, etc. Amtrak also has a frequent rider program that gives out free sleeping car trips to people who have accumulated points purchasing other trips in sleeping cars that Amtrak lost tons of money providing.

My best guess is that the Amtrak pricing strategy is to keep sleeping car passengers (mostly railfans) happy in the hope that they supply a constituency to advocate for continued Amtrak funding. Then, when periodic budget cuts happen, they cut services to sleeping car passengers as best they can (substituting reheated food for traditional fresh-cooked dining car food, removing amenity kits, etc.) while not making that constituency too mad.

VIA, in contrast, charges sleeping car passengers something like what it costs to transport them across Canada and feed them. If Amtrak adopted VIA's pricing, they would probably lose a lot less money. On the other hand, they'd also price a lot of railfans out of the market and could lose their political constituency.

 

[rrdude]

Get your armor out, you're gonna get drilled, and rightfully so, your "hypothesis" is wrong on several counts.........But it's too late for me to get specific.