VIA fare versus Amtrak fare between same city pairs.

[zephyr17]

I just finished booking my annual Everett, WA, New York, NY round trip, VIA going eastbound, Amtrak returning.

EVR-NYP using the Canadian:
$22 EVR-VAC coach
$1132 USD ($1559.55 CAD) Vancouver(VCVR)-Toronto(TRTO) Roomette. Note this was after a 30% off promotion VIA is running (VIA2024) available to anyone. I didn't use my 20% off Privilege status coupon.
$225 TWO-NYP Business Class (note I could save $100 by going coach, but Toronto-New York is a really long day).
Total: $1379 USD

NYP-EVR $1317 49/7 Roomettes.
Broken down into segments, NYP-CHI on 49 was $698. Apparently the second highest bucket. @niemi24s , looks like they boosted the LSL's buckets again.
CHI-EVR $619. Low bucket! Got to go out and sacrifice a goat.

So the fares are pretty comparable, and the value provided by VIA is immensely higher. $700 for one night in a roomette NYP-CHI with Flex dining? Versus $1132 for 4 nights with domes, great food, and a better berth? I'd probably have held out longer, but both trains were below 8 roomettes available, I think there were 6 each open on both, plus the Builder was at low bucket.

In any event, I was looking at cash fares to be able to reference where the prices were in relation to buckets. I actually booked NYP-EVR with AGR points. 49,388 AGR points, which pretty much equates to the generally accepted 0.02666/point value, plus I got 2469 points rebated as a FNBO AGR cardholder.

In fairness, the trip absolutely requires a hotel night in Toronto, and I will be taking another at Vancouver although a same day connection there is possible.

Still, my basic point remains. The VIA Canadian is not significantly more than Amtrak any longer, or at least it doesn't have to be.

 

[jiml]

Still, my basic point remains. The VIA Canadian is not significantly more than Amtrak any longer, or at least it doesn't have to be.

That is a far cry from how things used to be for many years. I recall almost abandoning VIA in favor of Amtrak for western itineraries. There were a lot of factors at play however: VIA had slashed service and started the "cruise train" ascent. Trains that weren't overpriced suffered from rundown and unreliable equipment. Amtrak, on the other hand, had newer trains, friendlier (at the time) service and innovative pricing, such as the USA rail pass that could be upgraded to sleepers. When traveling with children the Family Bedroom was a real attraction, although two combined bedrooms to Florida in a 10-6 was still competitively priced with flying for 4. Since then prices have balanced as shown in the @zephyr17 breakdown, and other factors such as cheaper air fares have leveled the playing field. Another key factor for me was the loss of the International, which not only provided the western connections but was also the start of the fastest and cheapest way to Florida from Toronto without requiring an overnight hotel enroute.

Thank you for the excellent Original Post.

 

[MARC Rider]

Apples and Oranges.

Taking Amtrak straight through from Wahington State is 3 nights in two trains on the road; OK, going east you might want to schedule a hotel in Chicago in case of a late-running Empire Builder. Taking the Canadian involves 3 trains, 2 nights in hotels (Vancouver and Toronto) and 4 nights on the train. Plus, you get into New York really late at night, at least late enough so that there are no good connections south, except waiting for 67 in the wee hours. All this just to avoid flex dining on one night of the trip. I mean flex dining isn't great, but it's not that bad.

And you were really lucky with the Canadian fares. On my off-season trip last November, the roomette fare Toronto-Vancouver was C$2200 or about US$1600. I looked at sone summer departures, and the roomettes were pushing C$3,000. Plus, I had to pay for a hotel in Albany and Toronto.

I am a little concerned about the high prices for roomettes on the eastern trains. I also paid north of $600 for a Chicago-Washington roomette on the Capitol Limited. Clearly you lucked out on the Empire Builder roomette, which is crazy, the same price for 2 nights and 2,000 miles as for one night and 8 or 900 miles. They clearly need to get more sleepers back on the Lakeshore Limited.

 

[jiml]

FYI: The "VIA 2024" code is still in effect, although availability is dwindling.

 

[zephyr17]

Apples and Oranges.

Taking Amtrak straight through from Wahington State is 3 nights in two trains on the road; OK, going east you might want to schedule a hotel in Chicago in case of a late-running Empire Builder. Taking the Canadian involves 3 trains, 2 nights in hotels (Vancouver and Toronto) and 4 nights on the train. Plus, you get into New York really late at night, at least late enough so that there are no good connections south, except waiting for 67 in the wee hours. All this just to avoid flex dining on one night of the trip. I mean flex dining isn't great, but it's not that bad.

And you were really lucky with the Canadian fares. On my off-season trip last November, the roomette fare Toronto-Vancouver was C$2200 or about US$1600. I looked at sone summer departures, and the roomettes were pushing C$3,000. Plus, I had to pay for a hotel in Albany and Toronto.

I am a little concerned about the high prices for roomettes on the eastern trains. I also paid north of $600 for a Chicago-Washington roomette on the Capitol Limited. Clearly you lucked out on the Empire Builder roomette, which is crazy, the same price for 2 nights and 2,000 miles as for one night and 8 or 900 miles. They clearly need to get more sleepers back on the Lakeshore Limited.

I take the Canadian every year and get fares in this ballpark. It isn't luck. I know how their fares work.

As to the Builder fare, I started checking a couple of months ago. Both the Lake Shore and Builder were both in higher buckets then. My experience is in the last few years Amtrak initially only puts inventory into the highest couple of buckets when released for sale 11 months in advance, then appears to readjust inventory allocation sometime in the 4-6 month period prior to departure, often shifting some inventory into lower buckets. I am happy with a lower bucket, I don't need the lowest. Lo and behold, the Builder did drop to the lowest, which I agree is unusual, typically lowest seldom happens, it is usually second or third (formerly mid under the old 5 bucket system) that gets opened. The LSL stood pat. However, with only 6 of an inventory of roughly 22 roomettes on the LSL apparently still open, I figured odds of some of those 6 being reallocated into lower buckets was not great. So I went ahead and grabbed it. Usually I end up with mid/low buckets on both the LSL and the Builder, this year it was lowest on the Builder and second highest on the LSL, which I figure is close to a wash with mid/low on both. So that isn't luck, either. I feel I have gained some insight into Amtrak’s pricing and yield management practices through observation and tools like @niemi24s' invaluable bucket chart. I am willing to pull the trigger when I see a decent deal but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and I don't hold out for the best possible one.

I don't take the Canadian to avoid one night of Flex, I take the Canadian because overall it is a much better experience. Domes, better and more varied meals than even Amtrak "traditional", better and much more consistent onboard service crews. I used the $700 LSL fare to illustrate its poor value proposition. I don't avoid it, note I have ridden it fairly frequently and will be riding it again in November.

I always build in an overnight layover at Chicago when traveling eastbound with sleeper connections. I have arrived at Chicago in the wee hours of the morning on the western LDs more times than I can count and that lesson is well learned. The westbound connections are much more reliable, the eastern trains frankly don't have the distance and time to get into as much trouble as frequently as the western trains do. So, for me, a Chicago hotel night, EVR-NYP, is a given. NYP-EVR, no.

The Vancouver overnight is very much optional. Cascades 516 usually doesn't have severe timekeeping problems, I can and have done same day connections to the Canadian. I started doing a Vancouver layover during COVID because of Canada's random COVID testing regimen after they reopened the border. I didn't want to be on the train if they selected me for a random COVID entry test and the results came back with me ordered into quarantine. After the random test requirement was dropped, I realized I found it more relaxing to just layover and continued to do it.

So, minimum travel times, EVR-NYP, with my personal Amtrak/VIA travel "rules". Let's leave on a Monday, since that is one of two days a week the Canadian departs Vancouver (the biggest drawback to VIA, IMHO, is that 2x weekly inflexibility).
Amtrak:
Monday, depart EVR on 8, 5:55 pm
Wednesday, arrive CHI 4:45 pm
Thursday, depart CHI on 48 9:30 pm
Friday arrive NYP 6:42 pm.

VIA
Monday, depart EVR on AMTK 516 9:21 am, arrive VAC 12:30 pm, depart VAC (VCVR) 3:00 pm.
Friday, arrive TWO (TRTO) 2:29 pm (actually pretty much anytime from a bit before noon to evening)
Saturday, depart TWO(TRTO) VIA 97 (to become AMTK 64 at NFS) 8:20 am, arrive NYP 9:16 pm.

It takes a one, single extra day. If I was in a hurry, I'd fly.

I realize I am in an unusual geographic position that make VIA's wonderful Canadian a practical transportation alternative to the East Coast for me. Most here are not, and I know that. It isn't practical transportation for American residents unless you live in New York City, upstate New York along the former NYC, Massachusetts, or in western Washington. My real point is, these days, VIA fares are not significantly more expensive than Amtrak with a bit of shopping. And the long distance onboard experience is typically far better than that on Amtrak. I use it routinely and it is a practical transportation alternative for me. I admit as a very hardcore rail traveler my definition of "practical" is unusual. For those for whom it isn't and are willing to go out of their way for it as a special, infrequent, treat, don't let the prospect of the VIA's "expensive" fares dissuade you. Shop, look for sales, and don't travel in peak season and they're in the same ballpark as Amtrak.

 

[user 14106]

Probably best to ride Canadian too while you can. According to VIA themselves they are getting close to a make or break point with the equipment. Either the train will go away or new equipment will take it over. If the latter occurs, while the new equipment will likely provide a more sustainable and accessible modern product, for those where the Heritage equipment is a big part of the draw vs. Amtrak - those days are numbered. If VIA picky backs with Amtrak and they end up with similar equipment it may not be that much different of an experience and some of the allure of the current service may fade.

 

[zephyr17]

Probably best to ride Canadian too while you can. According to VIA themselves they are getting close to a make or break point with the equipment. Either the train will go away or new equipment will take it over. If the latter occurs, while the new equipment will likely provide a more sustainable and accessible modern product, for those where the Heritage equipment is a big part of the draw vs. Amtrak - those days are numbered. If VIA picky backs with Amtrak and they end up with similar equipment it may not be that much different of an experience and some of the allure of the current service may fade.

VIA itself, after last year's sacrifice of 7 (? I am too lazy to look it up but it's around there) Budd cars to destructive tear down inspection and testing, says the cars have about 10 more years of safe, useful life. That's really barely enough to get a replacement fleet in place.

So their demise isn't imminent (which I was afraid of while the buffer car drama was playing out), but the clock is most definitely ticking.

So, yeah, ride the last true streamliner while you can. Unless there is a real replacement for the 360° view domes, when they go so will I.

 

[jiml]

Probably best to ride Canadian too while you can. According to VIA themselves they are getting close to a make or break point with the equipment. Either the train will go away or new equipment will take it over.

As mentioned by a countryman in another thread, VIA has submitted a request for new equipment which was reflected in the proposed Federal budget. However our political system is slightly different than the US: while we do have fixed election dates, the current government is in a minority position and could be defeated at any time - including the vote on this budget. The party expected to win the next election is not exactly friendly to VIA and a proposal to spend money on new LD equipment is unlikely to make the cut.

 

[trimetbusfan]

I take the Canadian every year and get fares in this ballpark. It isn't luck. I know how their fares work.

As to the Builder fare, I started checking a couple of months ago. Both the Lake Shore and Builder were both in higher buckets then. My experience is in the last few years Amtrak initially only puts inventory into the highest couple of buckets when released for sale 11 months in advance, then appears to readjust inventory allocation sometime in the 4-6 month period prior to departure, often shifting some inventory into lower buckets. I am happy with a lower bucket, I don't need the lowest. Lo and behold, the Builder did drop to the lowest, which I agree is unusual, typically lowest seldom happens, it is usually second or third (formerly mid under the old 5 bucket system) that gets opened. The LSL stood pat. However, with only 6 of an inventory of roughly 22 roomettes on the LSL apparently still open, I figured odds of some of those 6 being reallocated into lower buckets was not great. So I went ahead and grabbed it. Usually I end up with mid/low buckets on both the LSL and the Builder, this year it was lowest on the Builder and second highest on the LSL, which I figure is close to a wash with mid/low on both. So that isn't luck, either. I feel I have gained some insight into Amtrak’s pricing and yield management practices through observation and tools like @niemi24s' invaluable bucket chart. I am willing to pull the trigger when I see a decent deal but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and I don't hold out for the best possible one.

I don't take the Canadian to avoid one night of Flex, I take the Canadian because overall it is a much better experience. Domes, better and more varied meals than even Amtrak "traditional", better and much more consistent onboard service crews. I used the $700 LSL fare to illustrate its poor value proposition. I don't avoid it, note I have ridden it fairly frequently and will be riding it again in November.

I always build in an overnight layover at Chicago when traveling eastbound with sleeper connections. I have arrived at Chicago in the wee hours of the morning on the western LDs more times than I can count and that lesson is well learned. The westbound connections are much more reliable, the eastern trains frankly don't have the distance and time to get into as much trouble as frequently as the western trains do. So, for me, a Chicago hotel night, EVR-NYP, is a given. NYP-EVR, no.

The Vancouver overnight is very much optional. Cascades 516 usually doesn't have severe timekeeping problems, I can and have done same day connections to the Canadian. I started doing a Vancouver layover during COVID because of Canada's random COVID testing regimen after they reopened the border. I didn't want to be on the train if they selected me for a random COVID entry test and the results came back with me ordered into quarantine. After the random test requirement was dropped, I realized I found it more relaxing to just layover and continued to do it.

So, minimum travel times, EVR-NYP, with my personal Amtrak/VIA travel "rules". Let's leave on a Monday, since that is one of two days a week the Canadian departs Vancouver (the biggest drawback to VIA, IMHO, is that 2x weekly inflexibility).
Amtrak:
Monday, depart EVR on 8, 5:55 pm
Wednesday, arrive CHI 4:45 pm
Thursday, depart CHI on 48 9:30 pm
Friday arrive NYP 6:42 pm.

VIA
Monday, depart EVR on AMTK 516 9:21 am, arrive VAC 12:30 pm, depart VAC (VCVR) 3:00 pm.
Friday, arrive TWO (TRTO) 2:29 pm (actually pretty much anytime from a bit before noon to evening)
Saturday, depart TWO(TRTO) VIA 97 (to become AMTK 64 at NFS) 8:20 am, arrive NYP 9:16 pm.

It takes a one, single extra day. If I was in a hurry, I'd fly.

I realize I am in an unusual geographic position that make VIA's wonderful Canadian a practical transportation alternative to the East Coast for me. Most here are not, and I know that. It isn't practical transportation for American residents unless you live in New York City, upstate New York along the former NYC, Massachusetts, or in western Washington. My real point is, these days, VIA fares are not significantly more expensive than Amtrak with a bit of shopping. And the long distance onboard experience is typically far better than that on Amtrak. I use it routinely and it is a practical transportation alternative for me. I admit as a very hardcore rail traveler my definition of "practical" is unusual. For those for whom it isn't and are willing to go out of their way for it as a special, infrequent, treat, don't let the prospect of the VIA's "expensive" fares dissuade you. Shop, look for sales, and don't travel in peak season and they're in the same ballpark as Amtrak.

Haven't seen you post in a while!

After having taken the Canadian this past December, I can see where you are coming from. If you travel during the off-season, room prices are reasonable. On top of that, berth prices are very reasonable. With the current conversion rate and sale, I found some as low as $400 USD post tax! That's even lower than the lowest roomette price on the EB, and you get an extra 2 nights and 2 days on the train. Obviously, the berths aren't as good as a compartment. Yes, you don't get a door, but its also relatively private at night. Yes, there is no outlet next to your bed, but there is solutions around that as well.

While I was in a Cabin for 2, I found that I spent most of the day in the dome car anyway (however maybe that would be less the case if it wasn't my first time on the route). Unfortunately, the service could have been better. I didn't see my first attendant even once after leaving Vancouver. and it wasn't like they serviced the room, I didn't receive a fresh set of towels until after my new attendant took over in Winnipeg. Also didn't like how certain fresh air stops were essentially for coach passengers only (unless you listen in to the crew radio). My biggest complaint was how the Park Car attendant kept the overhead lights on in the dome car (on the first night only), making it essentially impossible to view out of. Luckily crowds were quieter on the second night, and the lights were turned off then.

Btw, LSL fares went up. The high bucket is now at around $1000.

 

[zephyr17]

I didn't see my first attendant even once after leaving Vancouver. and it wasn't like they serviced the room, I didn't receive a fresh set of towels until after my new attendant took over in Winnipeg.

I like my berth remade and the room given a quick once over, so I do what I normally do on Amtrak. Leave the bed down, ring for the attendant, leave the door open and go to breakfast. As with Amtrak, most of the time, the bed is remade and the room serviced by the time I get back. If it hasn't been, I'll flag down a passing attendant. I've never had to chase down the SM, which I am willing to do. Note that this is in a roomette, not a double bedroom, so I can operate the berth myself.

Not getting a second "shower kit" (as VIA calls the two towels plus shampoo, etc in a plastic drawstring bag) after Winnipeg is something I've run into a lot. I don't know why that happens, but it does most of the time. I got tired of trying to chase down/ring for the attendant the morning after Winnipeg, so the last couple trips I've taken to asking the outgoing attendant for another shower kit before we get to Winnipeg. They've always happily given me one.

Also didn't like how certain fresh air stops were essentially for coach passengers only (unless you listen in to the crew radio).

That's true, they don't open the whole train at some of them. The ones you can count on them opening most of the train (at least the off-season consist) are Kamloops (westbound if on time, not eastbound), Jasper, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Melville, Winnipeg, Sioux Lookout (not at zero dark thirty), and Hornepayne. They often don't open all the doors at Capreol in either direction, but especially eastbound when it is in the wee hours. There are other stops such as Parry Sound and Wainwright where they'll sometimes open up the coach for smokers, but never the whole train. At Parry Sound and Wainwright it is a matter of platform length if nothing else.

My biggest complaint was how the Park Car attendant kept the overhead lights on in the dome car (on the first night only), making it essentially impossible to view out of. Luckily crowds were quieter on the second night, and the lights were turned off then.

I'd like more context of your experience. I took it a month before you, in November, and there wasn't an issue with the Park Car lights. I had heard it had been an issue on some trips last year and discussed that with some of the crew and SM. They said there is a policy now that the dome lights in the Economy Skyline have to be kept on, but some less experienced crew members misunderstood it to be all the domes. The crew members often switch roles on different trips, someone can be staffing the Economy Skyline on one trip and the Park on another and a car attendant on another (they apparently are not different crafts on VIA). I am inferring from what you said, the first night crowd was rowdy and the attendant may have refused to douse the lights because of it. In any case, I've ridden it enough that, all things being equal, if the attendant didn't want to turn down the dome lights, I'd go find the SM or ASM and talk to them about it.

I spend most of my time in a dome car, too, and I've ridden it a lot. Domes are a big part of my love for that train. Mid-afternoon, though, sometimes I find myself nodding off and will go down and hang in my roomette for awhile.

Finally, I actually prefer the roomettes over the double bedrooms (A-E) and even the compartment (F). I think the wide, couch-like seat is more comfortable than chairs in the others.

 

[xzperu42]

I just finished booking my annual Everett, WA, New York, NY round trip, VIA going eastbound, Amtrak returning.

EVR-NYP using the Canadian:
$22 EVR-VAC coach
$1132 USD ($1559.55 CAD) Vancouver(VCVR)-Toronto(TRTO) Roomette. Note this was after a 30% off promotion VIA is running (VIA2024) available to anyone. I didn't use my 20% off Privilege status coupon.
$225 TWO-NYP Business Class (note I could save $100 by going coach, but Toronto-New York is a really long day).
Total: $1379 USD

NYP-EVR $1317 49/7 Roomettes.
Broken down into segments, NYP-CHI on 49 was $698. Apparently the second highest bucket. @niemi24s , looks like they boosted the LSL's buckets again.
CHI-EVR $619. Low bucket! Got to go out and sacrifice a goat.

The Canadian can indeed be very reasonable when making use of the big sales and off season. I'd be curious to see how the rewards program for Amtrak and VIA play into this. What value would you assign to the points and other perks you might get for each of these trips?

 

[zephyr17]

The Canadian can indeed be very reasonable when making use of the big sales and off season. I'd be curious to see how the rewards program for Amtrak and VIA play into this. What value would you assign to the points and other perks you might get for each of these trips?

Well, right off, just one, one-way trip in a room is enough to put you into the first elite tier, Privilege, in VIA's Preference program (spend > $999 CAD). That gives you a coupon for 20% off that has no restrictions and plus you get 2x points earn for the year. I didn't use my 20% coupon this time, because VIA was running a 30% off promotion when the issued it to me on May 1 for 24/25.

Since I didn't use my 20% coupon this year I will probably cash it in for 1000 points.

It used to be a fixed value, 13,000 Preference points, for a room Vancouver-Toronto until late last year. Now it fluctuates with the fare. Haven't done the math, yet.

The other elite perks, like lounge access when in coach, don't really matter to me because I wouldn't use them.

As to Amtrak, I hold the FNBO AGR card (and their Chase and BOA predecessors) and charge just about everything I do on it, paying it off at the end of each month. So I get piles of AGR points and now, with the unlimited $1000 TQPs for each $5000 spend with FNBO, Select Plus status. I save the AGR points for big sleeper trips and use them for the return from NYP. I haven't paid cash for an Amtrak sleeper trip in years. My cash Amtrak travel AGR points earn is pretty low, since my high dollar travel is all on those FNBO card AGR points.

 

[xzperu42]

I have not done the math for the new VIA program either… was hoping you would

 

[zephyr17]

I have not done the math for the new VIA program either… was hoping you would

Probably won't bother until I think I have enough for a one-way.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

My 2 cents is that with the current carry-on allowances being greater for sleepers on Amtrak than VIA, I'm not sure if I'm ever going to take it all the way from Toronto to Vancouver or vice versa. I have medical issues that mean I needed every bit of Amtrak's generous in cabin luggage allowance for my last cross-country trip. I have taken it Saskatoon to Vancouver in coach, which I enjoyed very much and would love to take the full ride. But not at the risk of an embarrassing mishap. I understand why berths have strict limits on carry-on but if I'm one person in a cabin for two I figure I should get to take whatever I can haul in there myself in one go.

 

[zephyr17]

My 2 cents is that with the current carry-on allowances being greater for sleepers on Amtrak than VIA, I'm not sure if I'm ever going to take it all the way from Toronto to Vancouver or vice versa. I have medical issues that mean I needed every bit of Amtrak's generous in cabin luggage allowance for my last cross-country trip. I have taken it Saskatoon to Vancouver in coach, which I enjoyed very much and would love to take the full ride. But not at the risk of an embarrassing mishap. I understand why berths have strict limits on carry-on but if I'm one person in a cabin for two I figure I should get to take whatever I can haul in there myself in one go.

VIA sleeping accommodations simply cannot hold as much. There is no common storage space like Superliners, nor a luggage cubby like on Viewliners. I never check bags on Amtrak but always do on VIA after an unfortunate experience with a large bag (but within Amtrak carry on limits) in a roomette. I carry on a small duffel with 4 days worth of clothes, my "toy bag" backpack, and my CPAP. I check my larger bag (and stuff the duffel in it after detraining VIA for further travel).

On both VIA and Amtrak, AFAIK, medical equipment, like my CPAP, is exempt from carry on limits.

 

[zephyr17]

Addendum/correction to the number of VIA Budd cars sacrificed to destructive tear down inspections and testing last year:
2 Chateau series sleepers
2 Manor series sleepers
1 coach
1 diner
1 Skyline dome/lounge
1 baggage
2 Park dome/obs

Total 10 cars. Plus one RDC.

 

[Urban Sky]

I have not done the math for the new VIA program either… was hoping you would

I have seen the following values posted last month at Groups.io:

$0.429 - Churchill cabin
$0.357 - Churchill berth(*)
$0.314 - Canadian cabin
$0.243 - Canadian berth(*) or coach
$0.214 - Ocean sleeper(*) or non-corridor coach (except Canadian)
$0.143 - corridor coach
$0.107 - corridor business

* - the above rates are for upper berths or for lowers when
they are automatically assigned. If you pay to move to a
lower instead of an upper, the conversion rate is less.
I get $0.264 for a Churchill lower, $0.195 - $0.198 for
a Canadian lower, and $0.170 - $0.181 for an Ocean lower

They are almost certain to change when the new adjustments take effect on July 4, but they are the best I‘ve seen at the moment…

 

[xzperu42]

I have seen the following values posted last month at Groups.io:

They are almost certain to change when the new adjustments take effect on July 4, but they are the best I‘ve seen at the moment…

I did some math today for cabin on the Canadian and coach on the corridor and it agrees with this. Those numbers must be some of the, if not the, highest point values of any frequency program out there.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I'm a railfan / "foamer" and absolutely love the historic streamliners of the VIA Canadian but I've had trips that were equally as enjoyable on the Starlight and Zephyr.

For me, Amtrak has much better schedules and timekeeping. The Canadian requires a great deal of patience.

Both Amtrak and VIA have pros and cons and I don't see one as being superior to the other. This summer I encountered a station agent in Vancouver who was extremely rude and pretty much refused to help me telling me I could do everything I wanted to on my iPhone. The coach attendants and cafe car attendant were extremely friendly though.

 

[MARC Rider]

VIA sleeping accommodations simply cannot hold as much. There is no common storage space like Superliners, nor a luggage cubby like on Viewliners. I never check bags on Amtrak but always do on VIA after an unfortunate experience with a large bag (but within Amtrak carry on limits) in a roomette. I carry on a small duffel with 4 days worth of clothes, my "toy bag" backpack, and my CPAP. I check my larger bag (and stuff the duffel in it after detraining VIA for further travel).

On both VIA and Amtrak, AFAIK, medical equipment, like my CPAP, is exempt from carry on limits.

I got a nice foldable 40 liter duffel that I was able to use on the Canadian:


I carried the duffel and my backpack on to the train and checked by rollerbag. There wasn't a whole lot of room to store the bags in the "cabin for two," and when the bed was set, there was even less room. The chairs in the cabin for 2 are reasonably comfortable, but when the bed was set, the chairs were folded up and placed under the bed, so there was no room for your bags under the bed. I spend most of my time either riding in the domes or sitting in the Park Car, which has very comfortable lounge seating

 

[railiner]

I got a nice foldable 40 liter duffel that I was able to use on the Canadian:

View attachment 36633View attachment 36634View attachment 36635
I carried the duffel and my backpack on to the train and checked by rollerbag. There wasn't a whole lot of room to store the bags in the "cabin for two," and when the bed was set, there was even less room. The chairs in the cabin for 2 are reasonably comfortable, but when the bed was set, the chairs were folded up and placed under the bed, so there was no room for your bags under the bed. I spend most of my time either riding in the domes or sitting in the Park Car, which has very comfortable lounge seating

If you are able to snag a Compartment ‘F’, now sold as a “Cabin for 2”, there is ample room on the floor for two, 22” rollaboard suitcases, as shown below. There is room above the toilet annex behind a curtain for more carryon storage.

 

[zephyr17]

Just a bit of follow up.

VIA 2 departing Vancouver11/4 is now entirely sold out of roomettes and double bedrooms/compartments (Cabins for 1 and Cabins for 2 in VIA-speak). Berths and Prestige are still available. I just noticed VIA's new booking system doesn't appear to differentiate between upper and lower berths. Is that right?

If I recall the "seating chart" display correctly, the 11/4 departure only had the 10, 11 and 12 sleeper car lines on, which is minimum consist. VIA does somewhat adjust consist to demand, so it is very possible they'll add another sleeper or two between now and departure.

Amtrak prices haven't changed, but the Builder is down to 4 roomettes available (somebody apparently bought another one after I did). The Lake Shore is down to 5 available, so no one bought another since I did. However, I noticed some anomalies in how the website behaves with multiple travelers in multiple rooms. It would only allow me to book two in a roomette when above two passengers on the Builder, although when booking more there seemed to be at least 4 rooms available on the Builder, but it was happy for me to book one to a room on the Lake Shore up to 5 rooms. I did notice a bucket jump when moving from 2 to 3 rooms (4 to 6 pax) on the Builder from lowest to second lowest. I may try to fool around with it some more to see if I can see a pattern. One difference is there was a bucket jump on the Builder, but not one on the LSL. If I do find a pattern messing around, I'll post over in the Buckets thread. Trying to determine the number of open rooms up to 8 is part of my strategy for deciding when/if to buy, so patterns on multiple travelers/multiple rooms are important to me.

 

[thully]

Finally, I actually prefer the roomettes over the double bedrooms (A-E) and even the compartment (F). I think the wide, couch-like seat is more comfortable than chairs in the others.

That’s interesting - I was in one of the Cabins for 2 alone for a trip on the Canadian in summer 2022, and with the points (and Premier coupons redeemed for points), I’m taking it this November in a Cabin for 1 (and still have points left over!). Was just short of the points to book a Cabin for 2 (and had thought of going to Windsor and doing a Corridor points run to get them), though ended up not doing that (and the price went up anyway).

Was wondering if I’d regret it, but kind of interested to compare (and it seems like it does have advantages - I do also know you can put the bed up/down yourself, which I was wishing I could do when the attendant was taking a long time in 2022).

Cabins for 1 are sold out on my date now, so glad I booked right when they opened that date up back in December. Interested to experience the Canadian off-peak after doing it peak - the big perk will definitely be 24-hour access to the Park Car and perhaps seeing some wintry conditions…

 

[zephyr17]

VIA 2 departing Vancouver11/4 is now entirely sold out of roomettes and double bedrooms/compartments (Cabins for 1 and Cabins for 2 in VIA-speak). Berths and Prestige are still available.

Just checked out of continuing curiosity. Sleeper Plus roomettes and double bedrooms are available again for the11/4 departure, with Prestige now sold out. My guess is they added another car, since VIA is known to adjust consists to demand to an extent. There were only three sleepers on the "seating chart" when I booked, car lines 10, 11, and 12 and that is minimum consist. Most of the time I travel I travel in early November there have been four or five sleepers, so that isn't really surprising. The change is the new ReserVIA shows the car chart, so you see the car lines assigned at the time you book, even though you cannot change your room selection using it.

One other note, there have been posts in the VIA Canadian FB group that you cannot book entire sections on line. It apparently sells the uppers first, then the lowers, which confirms my suspicion that you cannot select upper versus lower (the online selection is simply "Berth" now) and it just assigns two "Berths" on a next up basis. I imagine that a VIA agent can sell you a lower or whole section for two traveling, though. If VIA deliberately or by accident collapsed upper and lower berths into "Berth" like they collapsed Compartments and Double Bedrooms into "Cabin for 2" that would seem to be a mistake. In my mind there is a much bigger difference between an upper and lower berth than the extra floor space that's the difference between a compartment and double bedroom. Plus, if a couple who is ignorant of VIA (and most first time travelers are wholly ignorant of rail sleeper accommodations generally) books two "Berths" and gets, say 1U and 2U and assigns strangers to 1L and 2L, that is going to be one surprised couple once they board. They need to recognize it is a mistake and correct that.