Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[Brian Battuello]

Backed into Chicago last Saturday on the Zephyr past many dozens of the old baggage cars. Wish I'd run a video of them all!

 

[Palmetto]

Some of those still have a future, as long as the CN insists on a minimum axle count to shunt all their CTC circuits. For some weird reason, this problem exists only on the CN, and it apparently exists on the tracks in Canada as well, where they're testing RDCs out of London, ON.

 

[Brian Battuello]

One use could be spare parts for private rail cars. Until they were retired, the baggage trucks (wheel structures) were certified for passenger train use, so perhaps they could be fitted to historic private cars. Of course, knowing Amtrak, they'd probably refuse to sell them.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

One use could be spare parts for private rail cars. Until they were retired, the baggage trucks (wheel structures) were certified for passenger train use, so perhaps they could be fitted to historic private cars. Of course, knowing Amtrak, they'd probably refuse to sell them.

Amtrak is on the record stating that there will be nothing but recycled scrap and unusable debris coming from those cars.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Of course, knowing Amtrak, they'd probably refuse to sell them.

I haven't seen Amtrak selling anything on eBay for a while now. I wonder if that "experiment" failed?

 

[R30A]

One use could be spare parts for private rail cars. Until they were retired, the baggage trucks (wheel structures) were certified for passenger train use, so perhaps they could be fitted to historic private cars. Of course, knowing Amtrak, they'd probably refuse to sell them.

Amtrak is on the record stating that there will be nothing but recycled scrap and unusable debris coming from those cars.

Amtrak is on the record stating that they will evaluate each car as to what they will do with them. They have already put up parts from the center door baggage cars for sale, which are the ones they stated they will scrap all of.

 

[neroden]

Selling parts is normal when scrapping. I think Amtrak doesn't want those damaged frames and bodyshells coming back, but they couldn't care less if people buy parts.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

All shells have been completed. A batch will be released in April for testing, both testing testing, and testing in revenue testing.

ESPA / NARP 2016 meeting.

 

[jis]

All shells have been completed. A batch will be released on April, for testing, both in service, and regular testing.

Good news indeed!
Now once Boardman is gone we need to campaign to undo some of his more egregious anti-passenger acts.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The crew cars will go to Lake Shore Limited, and Cardinal. The other cars have not been assigned yet.

Per ESPA / NARP 2016 meeting.

 

[jis]

The crew cars 5 will go to Lake Shore Limited, and Cardinal. The other 5 cars have not been assigned.

Nomically they'd haveonly three more available for daily service with 2 for servicing and reserve, which makes it hard to assign it to any other single level train, each of which that remain requiring 4. I suppose something like CONO is a possibility, thus releasing all rooms in the Trans Dorm for revenue passengers. But I guess that is way more radical than what Amtrak can handle. .

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The crew cars 5 will go to Lake Shore Limited, and Cardinal. The other 5 cars have not been assigned.

Nomically they'd haveonly three more available for daily service with 2 for servicing and reserve, which makes it hard to assign it to any other single level train, each of which that remain requiring 4. I suppose something like CONO is a possibility, thus releasing all rooms in the Trans Dorm for revenue passengers. But I guess that is way more radical than what Amtrak can handle. .

They can go on the new SL East, right? J/K

 

[jis]

The crew cars 5 will go to Lake Shore Limited, and Cardinal. The other 5 cars have not been assigned.

Nomically they'd haveonly three more available for daily service with 2 for servicing and reserve, which makes it hard to assign it to any other single level train, each of which that remain requiring 4. I suppose something like CONO is a possibility, thus releasing all rooms in the Trans Dorm for revenue passengers. But I guess that is way more radical than what Amtrak can handle. .

They can go on the new SL East, right? J/K

Which of course is as likely as not to be a CONO extension.

If it is a self standing single level national network train INOL - ORL is 770 miles) then yes, it would be a candidate.

 

[R30A]

Now this is wholly speculation on my part, but if we do end up seeing some sort of NOL-JAX service returning, I see it being superliners, with those Superliners coming from the Capitol. The Capitol, either as a viewliner or superliner train, I think would be the most likely third line to see the bagdorms.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Now this is wholly speculation on my part, but if we do end up seeing some sort of NOL-JAX service returning, I see it being superliners, with those Superliners coming from the Capitol. The Capitol, either as a viewliner or superliner train, I think would be the most likely third line to see the bagdorms.

The leading plan for Gulf Coast service is to extend the City of New Orleans. In New Orleans, some Superliners will be separated and sent to Florida, while others will overnight and go back to Chicago. So the longer route will require two more, if smaller, sets of equipment.

A secondary option would add a shuttle New Orleans-Mobile that would use Horizon equipment.

Amtrak was looking to gain back a small number of Superliners from California and the Midwest (at least in winter) when the bi-levels arrive from Nippon-Sharyo. But see other thread.

 

[Palmetto]

I have a problem with "shuttle" as it pertains to operations. It reminds me of the NYC subway leaving Grand Central for the West Side. It's a matter of terminology, I guess, since the term "Springfield shuttle" is used pretty readily.

 

[Paulus]

Unsurprisingly, Amtrak OIG thinks that the Viewliner II order is a complete cluster

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The biggest cluster is the ADA bedroom bathroom. Big redesign. The door is now motorized, the sink is relocated to outside of the bathroom module. Weird set up now. You roll into the bathroom door area and press the button. The curve wall rotates around the person exposing the head. Sure hope there space for a wheel chair, and a standing person to assist them. No idea how your going to access the room if there a issue.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Unsurprisingly, Amtrak OIG thinks that the Viewliner II order is a complete cluster

Amtrak and CAF had been keeping their secrets. Now this OIG report is like the Pentagon Papers (OK, I'm old. LOL) and all the dirty secrets are out. Depressing reading, again like the Pentagon Papers' report on the Vietnam War.

A few items: Delays will continue. The costs will exceed budgeted amounts by at least $7 million. CAF already expects a $41 million loss on the contract, and it's propping up a major supplier that has severe financial woes. Hundreds of defects were found on every batch of baggage cars and all the prototypes. The bag cars were accepted with many defects, but those having to do with the "look and feel" were waived, while safety issues took priority. That was followed up with work at Hialeah, and more work back in Elmira. Amtrak expects to accept the remaining cars with many defects, making modifications over the next year or two after acceptance. And did I say, Delays will continue.

The delays will cost Amtrak $2.9 million of maintenance expense on the old equipment while waiting for the new cars. The Marketing Dept expects an additional $800,000 in revenue from the new cars once in service. So the delays are costing Amtrak $3.7 million or more. Did I mention, Delays will continue.

The matter doesn't seem to have degenerated to the kind of Bombardier/Acela blame-laying fuss fest, not yet. Of course, we're only hearing Amtrak's side of the story. But obviously, no one involved in this tale has anything to be happy about.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

An additional $800,000 in revenue from the new cars? Could that be correct? I'd expected at least $800,000 less in operating losses . . . well, this paragraph (page 9) confused me.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Well isn't this Special!

We're Shocked, Shocked! to find out this information as Government Contracts are usually completed early and under or on budget!

 

[Palmetto]

What a mess. The second SNAFU for equipment production in 6 months or so. Foreign is better? Kinda sorry we lost the likes of Brill, Pullman, St. Louis Car and Budd. [Did I miss any?!]

 

[jis]

There seems to be the same underlying theme of poor project management with no clear line of responsibility and no point where "the buck stops". It is as if repeatedly the same setup or variations of it, are put in place so as to make sure no one is ultimately accountably responsible for anything. Same story on the NJ HSR.

Glad to learn that they are trying something hopefully better on Gateway, though the primary manager of that is not Amtrak but a subsidiary of the PA of NY and NJ. That has every potential of becoming a $20 billion CF.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Glad to learn that they are trying something hopefully better on Gateway, though the primary manager of that is not Amtrak but a subsidiary of the PA of NY and NJ. That has every potential of becoming a $20 billion CF.

Potential????

 

[PaulM]

Well, at least this should stop the debate as to whether the slippage was due to the manufacturer's short comings or Amtrak asking to slow delivery because of cash flow problems.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Better get your non-slip shoes ready if you're going to be anywhere near the NEC next week.