Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[William W.]

The principle problem that I have noticed with changing livery (and let us, please use that term rather than "paint") is the fact that rather than "paint", most livery schemes are vinyl stickers.

When Amtrak gets sick of one livery, they peel the stickers and put on new ones. But they don't do their best to clean where they've peeled - or maybe they do, and the stainless steel is brighter behind the residue. Regardless, when you see remnants of a previous livery, it completely destroys the aesthetics of the new one that has replaced it.

I would argue that the US is one of the last countries where their major long distance trains are still "rainbow". Not quite like the rainbow days of the 70's, but mismatched heights, paint, cross section shape, etc., are all a true shame to an otherwise fairly cool rail system.

Perhaps the only consist/livery in the Amtrak system that doesn't look "odd" in my own humble opinion is the completely unmodifiable Acela. But it's a waste of platform space with its two locos serving a mere 6 coaches.

1. All Superliner, Pac Surf, Talgos are pretty consistent most of the time. However, the P42 or F59PHI that hauls them are not the same height or paint scheme as the coaches. Worse when a green loco is set up with the "swoop" baggage car on the Talgos. The baggage car on the Superliner sets disrupt the flow between the loco and the Superliners. Medium height loco, single level baggage, two level superliner... Ick.

2. The NERs look pretty consistent. The locos are a bit tall for the rest of the consist. I still prefer weight distributed DMU/EMU's, but I know we can't expect that so long as we have to have these trains jump from diesel to electric systems.

3. The worst have got to be the ones we're talking about most in this thread - the Single Level sleeper trains. The Viewliners are almost the same height as the P42s. If there were ONLY Viewliners in a consist, and the livery was good, it would look fantastic. But I don't think there is any plan to replace the coaches with Viewliner shells - who needs 12' ceilings in coach?

Even though a Viewliner might be a bit big for a coach, there is something to be said about parts commonality, and uniform maintenance training. I don't see Viewliners being used on short or medium distance trains, but they should replace the Amfleet IIs with Viewliner coaches when they can.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Bigger baggage racks are not a bad thing.

 

[MattW]

The principle problem that I have noticed with changing livery (and let us, please use that term rather than "paint") is the fact that rather than "paint", most livery schemes are vinyl stickers.

When Amtrak gets sick of one livery, they peel the stickers and put on new ones. But they don't do their best to clean where they've peeled - or maybe they do, and the stainless steel is brighter behind the residue. Regardless, when you see remnants of a previous livery, it completely destroys the aesthetics of the new one that has replaced it.

I would argue that the US is one of the last countries where their major long distance trains are still "rainbow". Not quite like the rainbow days of the 70's, but mismatched heights, paint, cross section shape, etc., are all a true shame to an otherwise fairly cool rail system.

Perhaps the only consist/livery in the Amtrak system that doesn't look "odd" in my own humble opinion is the completely unmodifiable Acela. But it's a waste of platform space with its two locos serving a mere 6 coaches.

1. All Superliner, Pac Surf, Talgos are pretty consistent most of the time. However, the P42 or F59PHI that hauls them are not the same height or paint scheme as the coaches. Worse when a green loco is set up with the "swoop" baggage car on the Talgos. The baggage car on the Superliner sets disrupt the flow between the loco and the Superliners. Medium height loco, single level baggage, two level superliner... Ick.

2. The NERs look pretty consistent. The locos are a bit tall for the rest of the consist. I still prefer weight distributed DMU/EMU's, but I know we can't expect that so long as we have to have these trains jump from diesel to electric systems.

3. The worst have got to be the ones we're talking about most in this thread - the Single Level sleeper trains. The Viewliners are almost the same height as the P42s. If there were ONLY Viewliners in a consist, and the livery was good, it would look fantastic. But I don't think there is any plan to replace the coaches with Viewliner shells - who needs 12' ceilings in coach?

Even though a Viewliner might be a bit big for a coach, there is something to be said about parts commonality, and uniform maintenance training. I don't see Viewliners being used on short or medium distance trains, but they should replace the Amfleet IIs with Viewliner coaches when they can.

Why not? The seat pitch would of course be lowered in their "corridor" configuration but that's it. I think they'd make very fine coach cars.

 

[Bob Dylan]

They would make great Lounge Cars also!!! (Hint!Hint!)

 

[afigg]

3. The worst have got to be the ones we're talking about most in this thread - the Single Level sleeper trains. The Viewliners are almost the same height as the P42s. If there were ONLY Viewliners in a consist, and the livery was good, it would look fantastic. But I don't think there is any plan to replace the coaches with Viewliner shells - who needs 12' ceilings in coach?

There certainly appear to be plans by Amtrak to replace the single level Amfleet coach and cafe cars with Viewliners. However, any major procurement order would have to be compliant with the Next Gen single level specification and I don't know how close the current Viewliner design is to compliance with the spec. For the eastern corridor cars, the states would have to agree with ordering the Amtrak owned Viewliner design and they may want to go with an open bid from vendors for a multi-state order.
Checking the PRIIA Single Level specification, yep, the car height is to be 14' 6", so even if a single level corridor car order was for a vendor supplied design, the interior height would be close to the Viewliner design and the cars would have the same general external dimensions as the Viewliners. As for the extra ceiling height, why not have room for large overhead storage bins and a more open overhead space inside the car?

 

[jis]

He may be worried about the single vestibule in current Viewliners. But I am most certain that Viewliners with two vestibules would be easy to build. So I don;t see why they could not be used for corridor coaches.

 

[FreeskierInVT]

I'm on today's southbound Adirondack that is currently sitting outside ALB waiting for an open platform. Spotted the new cars sitting about 100 yards behind us. I was focused on my calc homework in my lap and the "retro" livery certainly caught my eye! Fumbled with my phone and could only get a pic of the baggage car at the end of the test train

 

[afigg]

I'm on today's southbound Adirondack that is currently sitting outside ALB waiting for an open platform. Spotted the new cars sitting about 100 yards behind us. I was focused on my calc homework in my lap and the "retro" livery certainly caught my eye! Fumbled with my phone and could only get a pic of the baggage car at the end of the test train

Thanks for the photo! The baggage car is still a new Viewliner, even if it has been out in the wild for several months. I wonder why they moved the 61000 baggage car up to Albany? Did they do that for testing the connections between all 4 car types or is there a plan for a dog & pony show/press conference with the 4 new cars next week once Boardman is back from his trip to the SW? The diner car is after all named the Albany.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I'm on today's southbound Adirondack that is currently sitting outside ALB waiting for an open platform. Spotted the new cars sitting about 100 yards behind us. I was focused on my calc homework in my lap and the "retro" livery certainly caught my eye! Fumbled with my phone and could only get a pic of the baggage car at the end of the test train

Thanks for the photo! The baggage car is still a new Viewliner, even if it has been out in the wild for several months. I wonder why they moved the 61000 baggage car up to Albany? Did they do that for testing the connections between all 4 car types or is there a plan for a dog & pony show/press conference with the 4 new cars next week once Boardman is back from his trip to the SW? The diner car is after all named the Albany.

Probably both: a press extravaganza with all four cars, then testing of all four cars together.

 

[neroden]

3. The worst have got to be the ones we're talking about most in this thread - the Single Level sleeper trains. The Viewliners are almost the same height as the P42s. If there were ONLY Viewliners in a consist, and the livery was good, it would look fantastic. But I don't think there is any plan to replace the coaches with Viewliner shells - who needs 12' ceilings in coach?

The plan is certainly to replace the coaches with Viewliner shells if they ever get the money for it. What's the value? *More overhead luggage storage*. A lot more. (I assume the coaches would have only one row of windows.)

 

[user 1215]

Well, allow me to backtrack a bit. I would quite prefer a full-viewliner consist. From the P42s to the baggage to the coach, diner, and sleepers, it would be a very good looking consist.

I wonder if people would get caught sleeping in the baggage racks in coach, if they keep the upper window!

Oh wait a minute. We're missing something here.

There's been no discussion about replacing the cafe cars.

Oh, that'd be a major ick to have all Viewliner IIs and an AmCan Cafe in the middle!

I do NOT like going back to the pointless arrow! You know how many road signs they had to change to get the swoopy track logo?

 

[Blackwolf]

3. The worst have got to be the ones we're talking about most in this thread - the Single Level sleeper trains. The Viewliners are almost the same height as the P42s. If there were ONLY Viewliners in a consist, and the livery was good, it would look fantastic. But I don't think there is any plan to replace the coaches with Viewliner shells - who needs 12' ceilings in coach?

The plan is certainly to replace the coaches with Viewliner shells if they ever get the money for it. What's the value? *More overhead luggage storage*. A lot more. (I assume the coaches would have only one row of windows.)

Maybe only one level of windows, but they could be REALLY BIG windows! That'd be a major selling point: "Big, beautiful scenery right at your seat! Now, with Amtrak's new Viewliner fleet, you never miss a moment of the action outside, thanks to our giant over-sized windows at every row. So, go on and stare (but try not to get too excited. It fogs up the glass!)"

 

[crescent2]

I'm OK with the stripes and colors but I don't like that arrow thingy, either. It looks so dated and it never looked aerodynamic. (Not that they are likely to consult me!)

 

[Blackwolf]

Well, allow me to backtrack a bit. I would quite prefer a full-viewliner consist. From the P42s to the baggage to the coach, diner, and sleepers, it would be a very good looking consist.

I wonder if people would get caught sleeping in the baggage racks in coach, if they keep the upper window!

Oh wait a minute. We're missing something here.

There's been no discussion about replacing the cafe cars.

Oh, that'd be a major ick to have all Viewliner IIs and an AmCan Cafe in the middle!

I do NOT like going back to the pointless arrow! You know how many road signs they had to change to get the swoopy track logo?

At least here in SAC they're at no risk of trouble on the signage front. We're still sporting 100% Pointless Arrow Amtrak signs on all signposts. They never changed them, and I don't think they ever will.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Well, allow me to backtrack a bit. I would quite prefer a full-viewliner consist. From the P42s to the baggage to the coach, diner, and sleepers, it would be a very good looking consist.

I wonder if people would get caught sleeping in the baggage racks in coach, if they keep the upper window!

Oh wait a minute. We're missing something here.

There's been no discussion about replacing the cafe cars.

Oh, that'd be a major ick to have all Viewliner IIs and an AmCan Cafe in the middle!

I do NOT like going back to the pointless arrow! You know how many road signs they had to change to get the swoopy track logo?

At least here in SAC they're at no risk of trouble on the signage front. We're still sporting 100% Pointless Arrow Amtrak signs on all signposts. They never changed them, and I don't think they ever will.

I was thinking that myself. There are so many signs in various parts of the country with the older logo still on them, it would hardly matter.

 

[neroden]

Searching by car number on railpictures.net finds the following:

- baggage: http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?road_number=AMTK%2061000

- sleeper: http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?road_number=AMTK%2062500

- diner: http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?road_number=AMTK%2068000

- bag-dorm: http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?road_number=AMTK%2069000

A few things show up from these very nice photos (credit to John Sesonske for all of them so far).

- You can see the fairing underneath the cars. It's black and looks rubberized (though it's hard to tell). It runs between the bogies (it's not present on either end). This is probably to insulate and protect the under-floor equipment (not really for streamlining). There is a shiny-metal section of fairing directly under the HVAC vents which seems to have some controls and possibly some vents. It'll be interesting to see up close how the underfloor equipment is handled, but hopefully it will be resistant to the freezing problems which the earlier generation of equipment had.

- The "car number" adjustable board (for displaying which sleeping car is which for reservation-holders) is quite visible (being in the middle of the white stripe). It is present on the bag-dorm as well as the sleeper, indicating that Amtrak is planning to sell space in the bag-dorm, at least occasionally.

- If you look carefully, since the sleeper/bag-dorm/diner photos were all taken at once, you can see the test train configuration: locomotive - dining car (kitchen end / seating end) - sleeping car (bedroom end / roomette end) - bag-dorm (dorm end / baggage end) - baggage car. This is a pretty realistic configuration, especially now that the sleepers are running in the rear of the trains year-round.

 

[neroden]

Oh wait a minute. We're missing something here.

There's been no discussion about replacing the cafe cars.

Yeah. I think many of us would love to see Viewliner cafe-lounge-OBSERVATION cars. Preferably with panoramic roof windows like the Superliner Sightseer Lounges, but even the ordinary double windows would be an improvement over the cramped little windows of the Amfleets. But Amtrak hasn't talked about cafe car replacement at all so far.

 

[crescent2]

Neroden, thanks for the photo links!

No doubt this has been discussed a dozen times and I've just missed it, but why doesn't the sleeper car have the upper windows on more of it?

 

[Ryan]

I'm pretty sure that's the hallway that runs past the bedrooms, it doesn't have the upper level of windows.

 

[crescent2]

Thanks, Ryan, that makes sense. I don't recall whether the current ones have the upper windows in the hallway or not. I was hoping they hadn't removed them from the bedrooms!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The section without it is the hallway outside the bedrooms.

 

[crescent2]

Thanks, GML. I hadn't thought of that although I could tell it was the BR end of the car.

They'd just better not mess with "my" bedrooms! LOL Actually, it's only the H unit that was "mine." (not any more) Hopefully it's not changing too much? It sure is a nice unit.

Do you think many sleepers will actually be in service by next spring?

 

[William W.]

Thanks, GML. I hadn't thought of that although I could tell it was the BR end of the car.

They'd just better not mess with "my" bedrooms! LOL Actually, it's only the H unit that was "mine." (not any more) Hopefully it's not changing too much? It sure is a nice unit.

Do you think many sleepers will actually be in service by next spring?

Once (if) they pass testing, I'd imagine that Amtrak would put them into service ASAP. I'm not sure how much testing each subsequent new car will need (I'd imagine much less than these first fours cars).

 

[MattW]

This may have been answered, but does anyone know why they didn't put a vestibule on the diner, other than "our other diners don't?"

 

[Green Maned Lion]

It takes up valuable space, frankly.