Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

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They tested with an F59PHI in Albany? I thought they never went east of Chicago - would have been an interesting sight to see.
My memory could have been playing tricks on me, but I do remember specifically that they were tested with three classes of diesel locomotives at Albany. Two of them were P42s and P32AC-DM. I may have misremembered the third...
In Amtrak Ink in July , the indication was that the car would be tested on all the Viewliner routes ("routes to Chicago, New Orleans, and Miami"). I really would expect them to send it for familiarization west too since they're going to use the new baggage cars the west, but they didn't say that they would.

I'm definitely curious to watch the car's perambulations around the country, but it's possible that the sort of people who snap photos of railroad cars are getting bored with a mere baggage car. :-(
 
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I think the Phase IIIb scheme looks a lot better with the current Amtrak logo (three sheets to the wind). I have to say I think these cars would look a lot better in Phase IVb. I know this discussion has been discussed a while ago. Also, this may have been mentioned in the past. Is Amtrak planning on keeping any of the heritage dinning cars for backup or special runs?

Amtrak172
 
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I will lay bets that the heritage dining cars will be snapped up by museum and tourist operations, which generally have more coaches and fewer table cars than they need.
 
I will lay bets that the heritage dining cars will be snapped up by museum and tourist operations, which generally have more coaches and fewer table cars than they need.
I would expect to see some running on 'Dinner' trains after Amtrak gets rid of them.

peter
 
There's also a possibility ( admittedly slim, private buyers are more probable) that VIA might buy some of these Diners since they have a history of buying and fixing up Heritage Equipment!

They are old and tired, but the ones with the rebuilt interiors ate still nice to eat in! Whatever the reason VIA seems to be able to bring old rail cars back to life for use on Trains like the Canadian and the Ocean!
 
The diners, unlike the destroyed baggages, probably aren't too far gone for the most part, frame-wise - everything else can be rebuilt. The frame can as well, but it's a new car at that point. Honestly, VIA seems like the biggest potential customer for these.
 
But since VIA is cutting service, unless they get into the business of parking even more cars, what exactly are they going to do with more ancient cars that need more attention than their already underutilized better maintained set of cars?
 
VIA really doesn't have a shortage of dining cars. VIA has a shortage of functioning coaches (mostly because the Rennaissance and LRC cars are not holding up well). VIA's baggage cars are a motley mess too, but picking up the even-worse-condition Amtrak baggage cars won't help with that.

I suppose they might buy one to replace their non-Budd baggage car (is that the last National Steel baggage car in service in North America?)
 
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These cars are old and have been run to death. VIA has no use for more cars and I doubt if B and B would want these rust wagons. Can everybody please get in their head that the baggage cars will be going to the scrapyard. Some of the diners might go to museums and excursion trains, but I doubt if we'll ever seem them on an actual real passenger train again.
 
I had been bummed about them ditching the pointless arrow (again). But, after seeing those pictures, I rather like how the "new" looks with the "old". Thanks for sharing.
 
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When I add up how many new cars Amtrak actually needs, I find that the current CAF order is too few.

Even for the baggage cars.

I have no good estimates for the baggage loads on the trains. However, when Amtrak said that they were ordering more baggage cars due to "commercial needs", perhaps what they actually meant was this. They planned to replace full baggage cars with bag-dorms on a bunch of trains. Baggage loads are high enough (even after the stricter baggage policy) that they now know they can't do that on most of the trains. As such, bag-dorms are now largely for capacity expansion, not replacement of baggage cars, so the baggage car deliveries must come first. That would be a solid *commercial needs* explanation.
 
When I add up how many new cars Amtrak actually needs, I find that the current CAF order is too few.

Even for the baggage cars.

I have no good estimates for the baggage loads on the trains. However, when Amtrak said that they were ordering more baggage cars due to "commercial needs", perhaps what they actually meant was this. They planned to replace full baggage cars with bag-dorms on a bunch of trains. Baggage loads are high enough (even after the stricter baggage policy) that they now know they can't do that on most of the trains. As such, bag-dorms are now largely for capacity expansion, not replacement of baggage cars, so the baggage car deliveries must come first. That would be a solid *commercial needs* explanation.
IT could also mean Amtrak is planning on more Amtrak express shipments or even U.S. Mail.
 
When I add up how many new cars Amtrak actually needs, I find that the current CAF order is too few.

...

I have no good estimates for the baggage loads on the trains. However, when Amtrak said that they were ordering more baggage cars due to "commercial needs", perhaps what they actually meant was this. They planned to replace full baggage cars with bag-dorms on a bunch of trains. Baggage loads are high enough (even after the stricter baggage policy) that they now know they can't do that on most of the trains. As such, bag-dorms are now largely for capacity expansion, not replacement of baggage cars, so the baggage car deliveries must come first. That would be a solid *commercial needs* explanation.
It could also mean Amtrak is planning on more Amtrak express shipments or even U.S. Mail.
An article in the July Amtrak Ink about the baggage cars pointed out

"Luggage racks can be folded up against the walls to provide maximum floor area for carrying cargo such as pallets."
 
When I add up how many new cars Amtrak actually needs, I find that the current CAF order is too few.

I have no good estimates for the baggage loads on the trains. However, when Amtrak said that they were ordering more baggage cars due to "commercial needs", perhaps what they actually meant was this. They planned to replace full baggage cars with bag-dorms on a bunch of trains. Baggage loads are high enough (even after the stricter baggage policy) that they now know they can't do that on most of the trains. ...
From five years ago

trains4america.wordpress.com

Sea Toby says:

July 26, 2009

...

The new 130 Viewliner 2 cars are:

25 sleepers

25 baggage dorms

25 diners

55 baggage cars

The optional 70 Viewliner 2 cars are:

10 sleepers

15 baggage dorms

15 diners

30 baggage cars
I don't know Sea Toby at all. But he seemed confident in his claim.

Wait! Then another source posted somewhere that the option was for

15 diners, 15 bag dorms, 15 sleepers, and 25 bag cars. And someone

said the bag cars weren't enuff to replace all the Heritage equipment,

much less to add cars to current and future trains.

So Amtrak rejiggered the order to get 15 more bag cars. But I think,

not sure, that's still short of replacing the last of the Heritage equipment.

Meanwhile, another post claimed that reports from the field are that

2 ½ sleepers is fine, but 3 sleepers per diner really taxes the crew.

So how to get to 2 ½ sleepers? Would 2 full sleepers plus a bag dorm

do it? Seems like that is 2 sleepers, not 2 ½. So 3 sleepers, with 1/2

of one used for crew. But three sleepers plus a bag-dorm car is 3

sleepers per diner, which we're told is a bit too much to handle.

In which case, assuming Amtrak agrees that 2 sleepers is too few,

3 is too many, and 2 ½ is just right, then it doesn't need bag-dorms

much at all. Of course, with the new more efficient diners, and with

point-of-sale surely coming soon, maybe 3 full sleepers per diner will

be the right number, and Amtrak will want a bag-dorm on every route.

Of course, things change over time. The RfP for single-level cars was

late 2008 or early 2009. Remember how it looked like there'd be $4 or

$5 Billion a year for passenger rail infrastructure and equipment?

Now five years gone by, and three or four million passengers gained,

it's really not too surprising that particulars of the CAF order, and of

the option order, have changed.

Still, I have no doubt that the current order for 130 cars is way too small.

I'm crediting Amtrak with knowing that it needed 200 cars, but scaling it

back to 130 plus option for 70 due to financial limits, soon compounded

by political pressures.

I won't be surprised if CAF is very VERY flexible about the option order.

It could allow Amtrak to exercise a partial order for enuff cars to keep

the assembly lines (or at least one assembly line) open into another of

Amtrak's Fiscal Years, with a revised option for the balance of the 70 cars,

or for even more.

CAF doesn't want to pack up and go home any time soon. They want

to be around to bid to build Next Gen single-level coaches, and as I've

said before, Amtrak wants them to involved to help push the other bids down.

So I conclude that there's nothing about the Viewliner IIs order that can't

change, from the deadlines to the breakdown of cars ordered to the total

cars ordered, and more stuff I can't think of right now. :)
 
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As I read through this thread (and related ones about equipment), I find myself wondering about how much equipment Amtrak needs to haul baggage. Although the current crop of cars is aged, is it worth upgrading them instead of rolling stock that will accommodate more passengers?

I'm not giving an opinion here, I'm just wondering.
e10412.jpg
 
As I read through this thread (and related ones about equipment), I find myself wondering about how much equipment Amtrak needs to haul baggage. Although the current crop of cars is aged, is it worth upgrading them instead of rolling stock that will accommodate more passengers?

I'm not giving an opinion here, I'm just wondering.
e10412.jpg
The 25 Viewliner II sleepers in the current CAF order will be added

to the 50 Viewliners now in the fleet, for a 50% increase in roomettes.

Plus the 10 bag-dorms (letting crew move out of the sleepers), will

open up passenger roomettes for 10 "half of" sleepers, making a 60%

increase in roomettes from now. Sounds like it could be a 60% increase

in baggage, without adding any more coaches (and a small number of

Amfleets could come east from the Midwest and maybe California).

On the other hand, the new baggage cars are 85 feet long, while most

of the current fleet are 70 feet long. And the new cars have luggage racks,

which should use the space more efficiently.

But remember that the new bag cars will be used on all LD trains,

replacing Heritage cars, and not just the Eastern single-level routes.

++++++++++++++++++

Because the Heritage equipment is, by definition, older than Amtrak, or

pre-1971, it's simply worn out. Maintenance costs are huge, and their

slow speed-rating holds down the LD trains on the NEC, where many

trains are trying to go as fast as they can, and on other tracks as well.

So it's not about choosing non-revenue bag cars over coaches and

sleepers. and their paying customers. It's about replacing the oldest,

most worn-out stuff first.

But yeah, Amtrak needs to order 600 or more single-level coaches a.s.a.p.

And then order 500 or more bi-level coaches for the Western trains.
 
Thanks for your thoughtful response.

The 25 Viewliner II sleepers in the current CAF order will be added to the 50 Viewliners now in the fleet, for a 50% increase in roomettes.
I had no idea that there were more sleepers on order. I'm an ignoramus.

Plus the 10 bag-dorms (letting crew move out of the sleepers), will open up passenger roomettes for 10 "half of" sleepers, making a 60%

increase in roomettes from now
Hmm. That too. Seems like we're talking a serious amount of increased passenger room.

it's simply worn out. Maintenance costs are huge, and their slow speed-rating holds down the LD trains on the NEC
Is that the case on the Western LD routes as well? I had a speedometer app installed on my iPhone and our top speed was never more than 70-80. Is that a function of the old equipment, or the roadbed?

It's about replacing the oldest, most worn-out stuff first.
Yeah. Obviously.

Again, thanks for your thoughts.

This place (forum) is quite the education.
 
Is that the case on the Western LD routes as well? I had a speedometer app installed on my iPhone and our top speed was never more than 70-80. Is that a function of the old equipment, or the roadbed?
Function of max track speed. For Class IV track, max speed for passenger trains is 79 mph which is the typical max speed for Amtrak trains outside of the NEC, a few corridors and some 90 mph freight tracks. But Amtrak also operates over Class III 60 mph track for some route segments. The Heritage baggage and diner cars are rated for 110 mph speeds, so they don't present a speed constraint except on the NEC.
 
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